MNQB article on Dalton and the Bengals

[J24]

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/08/26/nfl-andy-dalton-cincinnati-bengals
I think its a fair take on Andy and on the team in general.

[BengalChris]

Quote:How far can a middle-of-the-pack quarterback take an NFL team? It’s one of the most heavily debated topics in professional sports, and to properly conduct this discussion we must first understand that there are two types of “average” quarterbacks: those who achieve averageness through mediocrity, and those who achieve it through inconsistency.

Well, no wonder it so hotly debated on Bengals forums. At least the media is talking about the Bengals instead of ignoring the team existence. I wish a SB win was the reason they were talking though.

The problem, of course, and it's been the problem for the awhile, is who do you get to replace him?

We could have cut a deal with San Diego, but frankly they just wanted too much for Rivers. I don't see who's floating around we could get.

[BFritz21]

Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl starting for the Bucs...... Dalton's better than him.

People keep starting threads like these and they all end in the same way: Dalton needs to stop choking in the postseason, but a healthy team and a good running game will make it easy on him.

[BengalChris]

(08-27-2015, 02:29 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl starting for the Bucs......  Dalton's better than him.

People keep starting threads like these and they all end in the same way:  Dalton needs to stop choking in the postseason, but a healthy team and a good running game will make it easy on him.

Brad Johnson was a decent game manager and sometimes that might be a better option for a team. Trent Dilfer is another example.

As talented as Wilson is, he's an excellent game manager. So is Rodgers, Brady, both Mannings and others. Without those game management skills and having one's head in the game, the changes of a playoff run dwindle rather quickly.

[GodHatesBengals]

This team will not win a Super Bowl with Andy Dalton at QB. Stop citing examples from over a decade ago to try to argue yourself out of this self-evident fact.

That being said, they will also not win a Super Bowl with Marvin Lewis, Paul Guenther, Ken Zampese, and of course, Mike Brown.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-27-2015, 01:27 AM)J24 Wrote: http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/08/26/nfl-andy-dalton-cincinnati-bengals
I think its a fair take on Andy and on the team in general.

I think it's 100% dead to rights on the money......good read, thanks for sharing.

[BleedNOrange]

This article sums up my thoughts pretty well. I like him but am not convinced he can lead us to a title. I made a post a couple years ago in the "Old board that shall not be named" some stats around fantasy (yes, fantasy) football. Dalton was top in the entire league in the number of "stud" performances but was also top in the number of "dud" performances. I pasted an excerpt from the Matthew Berry article below original article.

So basically, Andy is a total crap shoot. Think of it this way. It is almost like we are randomly picking "good" vs. "bad" Andy. In the playoffs, we need 4 straight good Andys to win a Super Bowl. The Bengals aren't good enough elsewhere (defense, coaching, etc.) to overcome "bad" Andy in the playoffs. Flip a coin and have it land heads up 4 straight times. The chances aren't very good (I am good at math & know the actual chance so no need to tell me).

""QB1" was a fantasy stud last year. He finished as a top-10 quarterback and had more 30-point games than any quarterback not named Peyton or Drew. In fact, according to Tristan H. Cockcroft's 2013 consistency rankings, those two quarterbacks (Peyton Manning and Drew Brees) were the only two who had more "stud" games than this guy. ("Stud" being defined as a QB who was top-two at his position for the week). His attempts, completions, touchdowns, yards, QB rating and QBR have improved every year he's been in the league. He has one of the most talented receiving corps around, including the leading wide receiver in end zone catch percentage (among qualified wideouts). Top 10 in the NFL in pass attempts last year, he's the leader of a high-octane offense that was sixth in the league in total points. And he has started every game of his career, so it's easy to see why this 4,000-yard passer was a high draft pick. He's coming off his best professional year ever, and considering he's still fairly young, the best is yet to come. Draft him high, and ride the wave.


On the other hand, "QB2" is being drafted well outside the top 10 this year, and it's no shock why. Per Tristan's same consistency rankings, Geno Smith, Eli Manning and Chad Henne were the only quarterbacks who were "stiffs" more often last season. ("Stiff" being defined as someone who ranked among the worst at his position, thus making almost any waiver wire option a better choice.) His interceptions have increased every year he has been in the league, his completion percentage decreased from the previous season, and his QBR was just four tenths of a point better than Ryan Fitzpatrick's. I repeat: Ryan Fitzpatrick. It's not just fantasy owners who have questions about this quarterback. His own team hasn't signed him to an extension yet, and in fact, he will be a free agent after this season. Considering how QB-starved the NFL is, it speaks volumes that his team is willing to let him walk. With the fifth most interceptions in the NFL last year, it's not surprising his team just hired a new offensive coordinator known for running the ball; in his latest job as a playcaller, this coach was top four in the NFL in rush attempts and rush yards. Hand the ball off and don't lose this for us, they seem to be saying. Something you don't want them to say about your quarterback as a fantasy owner. Look elsewhere.

Now, everything I wrote about for each player is 100 percent true. So tell me ... which QB do you want?

Before you answer, you should know that both quarterbacks are Andy Dalton."
Source:
Matthew Berry
7/15/2014
http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/page/nfldk2k14_TMR100facts/matthew-berry-fantasy-football-100-facts-2014-preseason

[CJD]

He makes a lot of excellent points about Dalton. It is true that, if Dalton wins the pre-snap game, he will generally play very well.

And for most defensive coordinators and defenses, it is difficult to mask things from Andy for an entire game.

Then, however, when you're facing elite defenses with elite defensive coordinators that know how shift and move players and disguise coverages, and before you know it, Dalton has to figure out if he can trust the reads he makes or if the reads he makes are based on the intentional decision to give him false reads on the defense. It becomes a battle of wits.

Kind of like the Iocane powder scene in The Princess Bride. Against a formidable opponent, you can't trust that the reads you make are not based in deception. But you also can't trust that the reads you make are not not based in deception.

[Rotobeast]

Just going to add this here, instead of a new thread.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25281973/andy-dalton-says-criticism-comes-down-to-the-whole-playoff-thing

So, the old message boards DID hurt Andy's feelings.
I knew it.
:snark:

[Sweetness]

(08-27-2015, 11:07 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Just going to add this here, instead of a new thread.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25281973/andy-dalton-says-criticism-comes-down-to-the-whole-playoff-thing

So, the old message boards DID hurt Andy's feelings.
I knew it.
:snark:

Decent read but not really anything new. Until Dalton wins a playoff game, the opinion of him isn't going to change. Regardless of how good he actually is or isn't, nothing is going to change until he wins one. Unfortunately for Dalton, I don't think it will take just one playoff win to change people's opinion that he can't get it done.

[Mickeypoo]

I am neutral on AD until after this year.  What I would enjoy seeing is an in-depth article on the shortcomings of our coaches.  Heaven forbid a coaching staff get called out and scrutinized by the media.  I believe Marvin Lewis and the FO are more responsible for our crap play then any of the players.  They really screwed up letting Zimmer go.  Just my opinion.

[fredtoast]

(08-27-2015, 01:27 PM)Sweetness Wrote:  Unfortunately for Dalton, I don't think it will take just one playoff win to change people's opinion that he can't get it done.

Even if we win the Super Bowl some people willinsist that it was because Andy had the best roster in the league to carry him there.  And we would win "in spite of Dalton".

[BengalChris]

(08-27-2015, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even if we win the Super Bowl some people willinsist that it was because Andy had the best roster in the league to carry him there.  And we would win "in spite of Dalton".

Hell, I say that right now about the team making 4 playoff appearances in a row. It is a team game after all and Dalton is not one of the top 5 players on the team. He is the best QB on the team, so we have to deal with that and compensation with talent around him. Knock out a few talents around him and he's suddenly very, very average.

[djs7685]

(08-27-2015, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even if we win the Super Bowl some people willinsist that it was because Andy had the best roster in the league to carry him there.  And we would win "in spite of Dalton".

Even if we lose 16 games some people will insist that it was because of the team and they'll excuse Andy for his poor performances. It goes both ways.

For me, personally, I will be very happy with Andy if he can put together a solid performance in the playoffs regardless if the team wins or loses. Obviously I'll be happy with the team if they can ALL play well in the playoffs.

In the past, it usually seemed as though Andy broke down (not every single time, but most) if things around him weren't going very well. If a receiver drops a couple passes or a running back fumbles, Andy falls apart himself for some reason and starts making mental errors. I was really happy to see him turn the corner and do the exact opposite in this past year's game against the Patriots. I'd like to see that happen more in primetime and also the playoffs even if the team isn't playing very well. Andy kept his cool in New England and was still throwing precise passes and not making many mental mistakes even though everyone around him was seemingly falling apart. I think that was a huge positive in a lackluster season that not everybody thinks about. That's something that Andy hasn't really been known for in the past that he proved that he's capable of.

[CornerBlitz]

(08-27-2015, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even if we win the Super Bowl some people willinsist that it was because Andy had the best roster in the league to carry him there.  And we would win "in spite of Dalton".

If andy wins us a Super Bowl I will be the first one giving him props and acknowledging how great he is.  Regardless of how he performs if he gives us a SB he obvoiusly isn't going to play like a bum.

The problem is that he has played like a bum the past 4 playoff games and has given us no chance to win. His inferior performance has been by far the biggest contributor to our playoff woes.

[*Nately120*]

(08-27-2015, 02:29 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl starting for the Bucs......  Dalton's better than him.

In any given year you have 20-32 starting QBs that are better than Trent Dilfer and/or Brad Johnson...so every year for the past 15 years we've lived in a reality where almost every team "could win the Super Bowl" each year.

Meh.  Mikey and Marvin have had the relative luxury of 2 decent and reliable QBs and instead of having 12 Super Bowl rings (because Palmer and Dalton never finished below Dilfer/Johnson standards....er, save 2008) they have zero.  Amazing how that works.

But seriously folks, when is this argument going to end? How many teams this year have starting QBs that you are SURE are worse than Dilfer/Johnson? Let's see...who are the worst I can think of....

YES...WORSE
Browns
Redskins

MAYBE WORSE
Bills
Jets
Texans

Ok, so 2 NFL teams are starting worse QBs than Dilfer/Johnson and there are 3 in the maybe pile (by my eye) so we should have 27 NFL teams all talking about how they can win the Super Bowl this year because 2 crappy QBs won it 15 years ago. How about we think of the worst QBs to make a Super Bowl? Rex Grossman made the Super Bowl in 2006 so if you have a QB that can throw less than 5 INTs per half then there is no reason you CAN'T at least be conference champs, right?

[*Nately120*]

(08-27-2015, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even if we win the Super Bowl some people willinsist that it was because Andy had the best roster in the league to carry him there.  And we would win "in spite of Dalton".

What, you mean like people would spend the next 15+ years saying their team could win the Super Bowl because "Andy Dalton" won one?

[*SHRacerX*]

The comment I left in their comments section...


"I love how there is a preseason game where Dalton has a pick 6 (that goes RIGHT through the hands of the infallible AJ Green), and everyone is ready to kill him. Pile on for another postseason loss last year (where both #1 and #2 WRs AND TEs were not playing) and talk about how his middle name should be average because he always has lows that balance out his highs. Well, if you were at all skilled at math, you would realize that if you have as many "lows" as "highs", you would not win 40 games in your first 4 season. Oh, and he plays in the AFC North, where he faces three top 10 defenses twice. Does anyone realize what Dalton did to teams in the NFL South? Matt Ryan gets to play six games in that defense-optional division. And don't get me started on Tom Brady's lack of competition in the AFC East and Luck's lack of competition if the AFC South. Luckily for Cincinnati, Dalton just turns a deaf ear to it and goes out and wins games. He doesn't lash out about how poorly his defense has played in the postseason. He doesn't complain about injuries. He doesn't complain about moronic coaching decisions (featuring Jermaine "drops" Gresham in the second playoff game??? What a friggin joke). He just goes out an wins. And I do feel that if he has a full complement of weapons stay healthy, they will win the division and make a title run"

[*Nately120*]

(08-27-2015, 10:55 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: The comment I left in their comments section...


"I love how there is a preseason game where Dalton has a pick 6 (that goes RIGHT through the hands of the infallible AJ Green), and everyone is ready to kill him.  Pile on for another postseason loss last year (where both #1 and #2 WRs AND TEs were not playing) and talk about how his middle name should be average because he always has lows that balance out his highs.  Well, if you were at all skilled at math, you would realize that if you have as many "lows" as "highs", you would not win 40 games in your first 4 season.  Oh, and he plays in the AFC North, where he faces three top 10 defenses twice.  Does anyone realize what Dalton did to teams in the NFL South?  Matt Ryan gets to play six games in that defense-optional division.  And don't get me started on Tom Brady's lack of competition in the AFC East and Luck's lack of competition if the AFC South.  Luckily for Cincinnati, Dalton just turns a deaf ear to it and goes out and wins games.  He doesn't lash out about how poorly his defense has played in the postseason.  He doesn't complain about injuries.  He doesn't complain about moronic coaching decisions (featuring Jermaine "drops" Gresham in the second playoff game??? What a friggin joke).  He just goes out an wins.  And I do feel that if he has a full complement of weapons stay healthy, they will win the division and make a title run"

Lord knows every time I want to judge a QB based upon his play I stop myself and said "Wait, what if this guy had a full complement of 100% healthy weapons and also played in the worst division in NFL history?"  Then again, that's probably why my top-tier of QB rankings includes nearly 27 guys each year.  Hmm...

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-27-2015, 10:07 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: If andy wins us a Super Bowl I will be the first one giving him props and acknowledging how great he is.  Regardless of how he performs if he gives us a SB he obvoiusly isn't going to play like a bum.

The problem is that he has played like a bum the past 4 playoff games and has given us no chance to win. His inferior performance has been by far the biggest contributor to our playoff woes.

I don't think he played that badly at Indy.....especially considering the supporting cast.  The first two and the 2nd half of SD....absolutely agree.l