Foles vs McCarron

[*Nately120*]

(01-23-2018, 05:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We Might not want to compare McCarron to Brady.

Nor nick foles, for that matter. 

[wolfkaosaun]

Nick Foles. And it's not even close.

Granted, I don't think Foles is really all that great. But if I had to choose between the two? Foles.

Dude was great in 2013. Struggled the next year (but they were still winning).
Struggled under Fisher (as did Goff and Keenum).
Did well with Kansas City.
Doing well with the Eagles.

He's also played in 3 playoff games and has NEVER turned the ball over in the playoffs.
He's also never had a QB rating under 100 in the playoffs.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

From what i saw from McCarron all of last year i would take Driskell over him, let alone Foles who is proven.

[*PhilHos*]

(01-23-2018, 07:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Nor nick foles, for that matter. 

I don't think anyone was comparing Foles to Brady.

[BMK]

If Dalton, Foles and McCarron were all on the Bengals at the start of next season, Foles could give Andy a serious challenge. McCarren hasn't. Nuff said.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-23-2018, 03:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, maybe if McCarron plays more than 1 quarter of competent football that fumble doesn't ruin our entire franchise and blah blah blah.  Team game, and all that.  I will say McCarron SHOULD have won that game, but it would be a game McCarron won despite playing like meh.  Brady's RB lost a fumble in that Jags game and for some reason it didn't destroy their entire season.

I agree with most of this.....although I wouldn't compare Brady with AJM....or Dalton.....or especially Mervin with Belichick.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-24-2018, 04:03 PM)BMK Wrote: If Dalton, Foles and McCarron were all on the Bengals at the start of next season, Foles could give Andy a serious challenge. McCarren hasn't.  Nuff said.

Agreed.

[XenoMorph]

Well More Starting QBs will be needed soon with McMahons announcement later today.

So some of these guys will be able to prove playing is more important than the money if they want.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-25-2018, 02:18 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Well More Starting QBs will be needed soon with McMahons announcement later today.

So some of these guys will be able to prove playing is more important than the money if they want.

XFL again?

[XenoMorph]

(01-25-2018, 02:27 PM)Wyche Wrote: XFL again?

suppose to be big announcement today

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-25-2018, 02:33 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: suppose to be big announcement today

:andy:

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-25-2018, 02:18 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Well More Starting QBs will be needed soon with McMahons announcement later today.

So some of these guys will be able to prove playing is more important than the money if they want.

More football sure would be more than fine with me, hope they bring back the XFL.

Keep us updated Xeno...

[Shake n Blake]

(01-23-2018, 03:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, maybe if McCarron plays more than 1 quarter of competent football that fumble doesn't ruin our entire franchise and blah blah blah.  Team game, and all that.  I will say McCarron SHOULD have won that game, but it would be a game McCarron won despite playing like meh.  Brady's RB lost a fumble in that Jags game and for some reason it didn't destroy their entire season.

I get what you're saying and if we don't want to use Brady, I think there might be another example or 1,378 of a team overcoming a turnover or 2 in the playoffs. Maybe even more turnovers than that. Many teams have won games with a dominant rushing attack (150-200+ yards) or maybe forcing multiple turnovers themselves.

Pig Ben has won playoff games with these performances:

  9/21 (42.9%) 123 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT (22.6 rating)
10/19 (52.6%) 133 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT (35.5 rating)
17/30 (56.7%) 181 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT (57.8 rating)
20/31 (64.5%) 224 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT (72.5 rating)

These are Ben's 4 worst playoff games, by passer rating. Yet his team went 4-0 in these games. Compare these stats to Dalton... or Merv's non-Dalton playoff QB's:

Ben: 56/101 (55.4%) - 165.3 yards per game - 1 TD to 7 INTs (50.0 rating) --- team went 4-0
Andy: 88/158 (55.7%) - 218.3 yards per game - 1 TD to 6 INTs (57.8 rating) --- team went 0-4
Non-Andy: 61/117 (52.1%) - 185.0 yards per game - 3 TDs to 4 INTs (59.6 rating) --- team went 0-3

Now how did Ben go 4-0 in these games where he played even worse than our guys? Here's how:

The Steelers rushed for an average of 178 yards in these games, on 4.6 YPC. They limited opponents to 15.5 points per game, forcing 5 turnovers in 4 games.
The Bengals rushed for an average of 103.4 yards in these games, on 4.9 YPC. They limited opponents to to 25.1 points per game, forcing 4 turnovers in 7 games.

When our QB's struggle (they always do), we respond by putting more on their plate. When Ben has struggled, the Steelers respond by pounding the football upwards of 35-40+ times per game. They play sound defense, we don't. They force turnovers. We don't.

Any team can be carried by a QB. A good team often carries it's QB. It really is strange that we've averaged 4.9 YPC in the playoffs and haven't stuck with that, instead passing ourselves into oblivion with all of our QB's playing like doo-doo. Makes no sense. We're placing all of the pressure squarely on our QB's. They know that if they can't get it done, the rest of the team isn't going to step up. I'm sure it helps Ben's confidence to know that if he doesn't have it, the rest of the team has his back.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-25-2018, 04:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I get what you're saying and if we don't want to use Brady, I think there might be another example or 1,378 of a team overcoming a turnover or 2 in the playoffs. Maybe even more turnovers than that. Many teams have won games with a dominant rushing attack (150-200+ yards) or maybe forcing multiple turnovers themselves.

Pig Ben has won playoff games with these performances:

  9/21 (42.9%) 123 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT (22.6 rating)
10/19 (52.6%) 133 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT (35.5 rating)
17/30 (56.7%) 181 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT (57.8 rating)
20/31 (64.5%) 224 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT (72.5 rating)

These are Ben's 4 worst playoff games, by passer rating. Yet his team went 4-0 in these games. Compare these stats to Dalton... or Merv's non-Dalton playoff QB's:

Ben: 56/101 (55.4%) - 165.3 yards per game - 1 TD to 7 INTs (50.0 rating) --- team went 4-0
Andy: 88/158 (55.7%) - 218.3 yards per game - 1 TD to 6 INTs (57.8 rating) --- team went 0-4
Non-Andy: 61/117 (52.1%) - 185.0 yards per game - 3 TDs to 4 INTs (59.6 rating) --- team went 0-3

Now how did Ben go 4-0 in these games where he played even worse than our guys? Here's how:

The Steelers rushed for an average of 178 yards in these games, on 4.6 YPC. They limited opponents to 15.5 points per game, forcing 5 turnovers in 4 games.
The Bengals rushed for an average of 103.4 yards in these games, on 4.9 YPC. They limited opponents to to 25.1 points per game, forcing 4 turnovers in 7 games.

When our QB's struggle (they always do), we respond by putting more on their plate. When Ben has struggled, the Steelers respond by pounding the football upwards of 35-40+ times per game. They play sound defense, we don't. They force turnovers. We don't.

Any team can be carried by a QB. A good team often carries it's QB. It really is strange that we've averaged 4.9 YPC in the playoffs and haven't stuck with that, instead passing ourselves into oblivion with all of our QB's playing like doo-doo. Makes no sense. We're placing all of the pressure squarely on our QB's. They know that if they can't get it done, the rest of the team isn't going to step up. I'm sure it helps Ben's confidence to know that if he doesn't have it, the rest of the team has his back.

Damn good work on those numbers Shake.  Very interesting, although it's something objective fans already suspected.  No one ever wants to talk about the 2015 Broncos either for some reason.

I said the same thing when Palmer was here......the Bengals and fans expect our QBs to be perfect all of the time, while coaches and the rest of the team gets a pass.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-25-2018, 04:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: Damn good work on those numbers Shake.  Very interesting, although it's something objective fans already suspected.  No one ever wants to talk about the 2015 Broncos either for some reason.

I said the same thing when Palmer was here......the Bengals and fans expect our QBs to be perfect all of the time, while coaches and the rest of the team gets a pass.

Yeah, those are some interesting numbers there on how shitty the Pig played and the TEAM still won in spite of him.

Just shows us like you said what we have suspected all along. Our coaches have been the problem and it extends to our players.

Even our best players have played like shit like Geno and AJ, it is not all the QB's fault.

I will say that Burfict played his ass off in that last Playoff game though, just makes me want to puke thinking about how it ended.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-25-2018, 04:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: Damn good work on those numbers Shake.  Very interesting, although it's something objective fans already suspected.  No one ever wants to talk about the 2015 Broncos either for some reason.

I said the same thing when Palmer was here......the Bengals and fans expect our QBs to be perfect all of the time, while coaches and the rest of the team gets a pass.

They were just talking about average QB's winning SB's the other day on Tiki and Tierney, and is was a little frustrating because they were going all the way back to Trent Dilfer. I was thinking what about 2015 Peyton? What about Tiki's boy Eli? What about Brad Johnson and Joe Flacco? I guess people don't think of 2015 because it was Peyton, but obviously Peyton was awful that year.

And you're exactly right about Palmer too. I guess it's easier for some to focus only on QB play than to dissect each facet of the team. Sometimes our QB's deserve the most scrutiny, but sometimes it's obvious the problems go deeper than that. Particularly when the whole team is playing like ass in the same situations. That's when you have to start wondering if it's a systemic issue related to coaching.   

Looking over all the evidence that includes the entire team faltering in those same scenarios (including 4 QB's), I can't see how anyone would think "we just haven't found the right QB". 

[XenoMorph]

(01-25-2018, 02:27 PM)Wyche Wrote: XFL again?

Just announced they hope to launch January 2020.... with 8 teams yet undetermined where.  they got 2 years to work out the kinks.. Wont be the circus it was last time.

[*PhilHos*]

(01-25-2018, 04:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: Damn good work on those numbers Shake.  Very interesting, although it's something objective fans already suspected.  No one ever wants to talk about the 2015 Broncos either for some reason.

I said the same thing when Palmer was here......the Bengals and fans expect our QBs to be perfect all of the time, while coaches and the rest of the team gets a pass.

This is what I don't understand. I get that Dalton deserves criticism for his performance. But, why is he held to a higher standard than the rest of the team? Especially when our defense was considered by many to be 'elite'.

[*Nately120*]

(01-25-2018, 06:14 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Just announced they hope to launch January 2020.... with 8 teams yet undetermined where.  they got 2 years to work out the kinks.. Wont be the circus it was last time.

I bet Johnny Manziel has a shot at mvp if he doesn't overdose by then. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-25-2018, 08:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I bet Johnny Manziel has a shot at mvp if he doesn't overdose by then. 

Saw an article that stated the XFL would not allow anyone to play that has a criminal record.  No dice for Fartball.