Forget World Series. How Do Reds go 81-81 in 2018 ?

[kevin]

Watching the World Series in November was awful.....Lets forget October and November.....What do Reds have to do to bring some good baseball to fans in Spring and Summer. Forget the play-offs. 32 teams and only 1 can win it all, often in history the Yankees. The Indians haven't won since World War II. Forget the World Series.....How does Cincinnati put a team on the field in Spring and Summer that doesn't suck, and fans go home having watched a good ball game.

They have a nice stadium. They have the Reds Hall of Fame. Sadly they didn't come up wit the Milwaukee open and close roof idea, but under Castallini he has made it a nicer park and brought back Hall Of Fame that Marge and Lindner stopped. Castallini is great compared to them and Mike Brown. So the park and Hall if Fame are great for Fans.....They do have good young pitching. The new guy needs some minor leagues first. I'll accept Votto isn't going anywhere. I think they pay him too much and should trade him, but it ain't happening. So you got Votto and what else. I would keep Hamilton in center. If these young pitchers come along, and they play good defense, with clutch hitting they could play .500 ball maybe. Win enough games to make fans and TV networks happy. Maybe make a profit every year and be a money successful team. Fun For Fan, Money In Bank, F The World Series.....I could live with that. ....What I can't live with is last place all year, every year.

So, How Do Reds go from last place to around a .500 ball team that brings joy to fans in Spring and Summer and lets forget who is playing on Halloween Night ? Fireworks Nights are good. Teen Nights. Seniors Days. Business Man Specials. Family Discount Days. Maybe a Veterans Discount all Memorial Day Weekend or 4th of July. Have vendors items all over the park at a profit but at a price that fans can live with. Look I watched great games that had Vada Pinson. Pete Rose, Roberto Clemente, Bob Gibson. Hank Aaron and loved those Reds games way before Reds went to World Series. So, how do you have fans walking away happy again in Spring and Summer and the heck with November baseball ? How do you put a team on the field good enough to maybe not finish first but not in last either. A team fans can come out and enjoy a Spring or Summer day at the old ball park. Don't tell me how to get to Halloween. Lets move the target. Tell me how Reds have fans walking away happy in May, June or July. How do we get close to .500 ball and out of last place and make Spring and Summer Fans ENJOY BASEBALL. I think that is a bulls eye target they could hit. I know I got excited around 2010 over the starting pitching. We had veterans, young guys and fir a rare time in Reds history we actually had 5 good starters worth watching every game. Could this team come up with 5 decent starters. I did NOT say great starters. I said 5 decent starters. 5 good starters to keep Reds in game in the first 6 innings. You can sell a lot of popcorn and peanuts in 6 innings of 81 games is what, 486 innings of popcorn and peanut sales while starters keep Reds in the game. Around 972 innings of TV commercials as fans aren't turning off the TV because starters have Reds in the game. Forget the World Series target. This is a target Reds could hit and it would be much better than what Reds have done lately.

[rezolve11]

Stop keeping pitchers like Bailey over pitchers like Cueto.

[kevin]

(11-10-2017, 12:37 PM)rezolve11 Wrote: Stop keeping pitchers like Bailey over pitchers like Cueto.

I agree that we just added top picks in pitching to minors who will work their way up.  We also have young pitchers in minors probably ready for majors this Spring. We also have young pitchers on the Reds not long out of minors.   All this youth Reds traded for and drafted does them no good if they just trade this youth away because some old veterans are in the way as team is stuck in last place.  We gave up Cueto, Chapman, Bruce, Phillips, and many others to get all this youth, and so it would really be stupid to trade this youth away.  ...I think FANS want to see these young bloods come to The Bigs and turn the Reds around. Pete Rose even talks about not rebuilding but reloading.  So I think getting Fans In The Stands has a lot to do with coaches in the Minors getting this youth developed and up to The Reds where Fans including Pete are waiting to see them.  Small market Cincy is not like Yankees or a Walt Disney Angels that paid to get Albert Pujols from Cardinals a few years ago. No, Reds pretty much need to be about Farm System. Free Agents kind of have to be guys on the cheap, but you can still get talent. ...So I agree on not trading away the good youth, especially the ones still so young they haven't reached the years of free agency mega bucks.

I agree that if some of the youth catches fire, it makes 81 and 81 season much more possible, and Reds climb out of last place and FANS have a better Spring and Summer of REDS.

[grampahol]

The thing with young players is you really never know when and if they're going to catch fire. They have players who all have potential. Not everyone has a lousy season that's followed by ten more lousy seasons anymore than a player who catches fire will always stay that way. 
They've got some young arms in the minor leagues so if they can match their peek years with the hitters peek years it's anyones guess how good they can be.  

[WildCat]

the long and short of it is simple. the reds don't and they continue sucking. they're a long way off from actually competing again. history is short....the sun is but a shining star.

[fredtoast]

How the hell could anyone want us to trade Votto?

[*Go Cards*]

(01-19-2018, 12:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How the hell could anyone want us to trade Votto?

Votto for president !

[grampahol]

(01-19-2018, 12:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How the hell could anyone want us to trade Votto?

Some people like to pretend that they are personally paying his salary or they have it all figured out how to juggle the books . They also believe that just because they want to trade someone it can always get done just because and never realize that in order to make a trade the other side also has to agree to the terms of the deal. It's not magic or rocket science .

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Not having an outfield that will strike out 400 times amongst the 3.

[samhain]

(02-02-2018, 05:03 AM)grampahol Wrote: Some people like to pretend that they are personally paying his salary or they have it all figured out how to juggle the books . They also believe that just because they want to trade someone it can always get done just because and never realize that in order to make a trade the other side also has to agree to the terms of the deal. It's not magic or rocket science .

It's a tough thing to consider.  He's one of the best Reds ever to put on a uniform.  He also is just about the only reason to go to the park and watch a game, unless you're an avid bobblehead collector.

All that said, if a team approached them and managed to put up a huge offer for him plus eat a significant portion of the remainder of his contract, then you must consider it.  His greatness is indisputable, but the chances that the Reds are any good while he's still in his prime continue to dwindle.  

As I've said before, 2/3 of the NL central look ready to contend for playoff spots at the very least.  The Brewers improved a lot last year and went all-in this offseason.  The Cubs have a dynasty-type lineup and a shitload of money to keep the machine running.  The Cards are the Cards.  They always seem to find a way.  They develop young pitching better than anyone, and aren't in short supply of it.  They also added Ozuna.  

Let's face it, Reds fans.  This team sucks.  It's going to keep sucking for the foreseeable future.  Outside of Castillo, they have zero legit starters.  Bailey is a sunk cost and looks like a shell of his prime self.  Disco hasn't been healthy in a really long time.  Everyone else is a young prospect, and most of them aren't overly special ones.  Just some guys that nobody but desperate Reds fans are excited about.  

Given these factors, I wouldn't hesitate to unload him if the right offer came along.  No reason to make him stagnate in this baseball wasteland with the Reds apathetic ownership half-stepping and crying poor.

[kevin]

Looking at Reds I can come up with a line-up easy enough and it's not bad.
1. Hamilton-CF Bats S
2. Gennett-2nd Bats-L
3. Votto- 1st Bats-L
4. Duvall-OF Bats-R
5. Schebler-OF Bats-L
6. Suarez-3rd Bats-R
7. CATCHER - Barnhart/ Mesoraco
8. SHORTSTOP - Peraza / Herrera

I like the top 6 and good mix of righty and lefty bats. Hamilton leads off due to speed. After that it is good power hitters. I see no reason not to drop catcher and shortstop to the bottom.

The problem is Pitching. I can tell you right now Reds only have 4 lefty pitchers on 40 man roster and that's not enough. Poster before me likes Castillo on the mound. As far as starters none of their names will get you excited. Lets look at 1st or 2nd round picks. Homer Bailey in 2004-Right. Stephenson in 2011-Right. Lorenzen in 2013-Right. Finnegan in 2014-Left, all 1st round. Reed was 2nd round by Royals in 2013- Left. Now it seems to me Reds have been trading for these picks and it's too early to give up on them, certainly the most recent ones.

So starting pitching I would have no problem with Homer Bailey as Opening Day pitcher. He is the no hit pitcher veteran of the staff. Can we get 5 starters out of Bailey, Castillo, Stephenson, Lorenzen, Finnegan, Reed, maybe Romano or Garrett.

With only 4 lefty pitchers they all would make my active roster out of need until we get others. Finnegan, Garrett, Peralta and Reed would all be on the team out of need for left handed pitchers.

It's easy to start with the Bullpen with Closer-Iglesias-Right and Set Up Man- Peralta-Left. I've got Finnegan, Garrett and Reed on team as either Lefty Starters or Lefty Bullpen. I guess Reds are counting on Hughes in pen. Shackelford, Brice, Hernandez in mix.

The Reds look good at Closer and Set Up Man and have a good batting order. Their getting out of Last Place Problem is finding starting pitchers and middle relievers to get them to Peralta and Iglesias to hold a lead. That's the problem, last place Reds don't often have a late inning lead.

Much like the Bengals need an O Line to compete, Reds need starting pitching to compete. A healthy Homer Bailey would be greatly welcomed back to a pitching staff in need of starters. A good year by Bailey could help put together 5 starters and round out a decent middle relief bullpen. If that happens, Reds have the hitters and the late inning pitchers to climb out of last and give Reds Fans a team worth watching. I will not watch Votto on a last place Reds team, but if the Reds improve I will watch Reds including Votto. Posting this day before Super Bowl I could care less about, But I would like to see Reds AND Bengals improve and be worth watching in 2018.