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(01-26-2018, 01:39 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Tell that to the Jags, Vikings, or Eagles.
No one's really sung their praises, but they sure haven't given the parts of the team that we rely on any real criticism either. The way many have talked, it's as if Dalton was the only one that played poorly.
Much of the critisim is justified, true but Dalton has sucked more than anyone else? Really? So, in your opinion, an average player playing below average is more deserving of criticism than an elite defense playing below average?
But, thanks for proving my point how Dalton is held to a different standard than the rest of the team by some people. 
Yes. 100x YES. The QB playing poorly is the WORST position to do so by miles. Why do you weight a QBs performance equally to, say, a LB or CB of S? A QB's mistakes puts his defense in poor positions. A CAB has a bad game and it doesn't effect every snap of the defense. Other guys can still make plays. A QB having a bad game typically crushes an offense. Let alone if he craps his pants.....
See Bengals vs. Chargers 2014. Bengals D had it close at half time and the Bengals were leading. AD comes out of the half with 4.... 4 straight turnovers on short drives. Then people want to blame the D?
Nobody is blaming AJM for the Steelers playoff loss, right? He got better in clutch moments as the game went on and did enough to win. When the plays needed made, AJM made them. Hill, Burfict and Jones then let the team down. That was a much different scenario than a QB stinking all game (or large portion) and taking a loss, like the 2014 Chargers game where Andy gave the guys around him no shot. Even in one of the Texans losses he missed a throw to a wide open AJ that would have probably won the game.
Nobody reasonable is blaming Andy for the 2015 loss to Indy. There was no team left. It's not like people expect him to be a solo act. Just not a imploding mess, which he has been in a huge majority of big games.
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I can’t wait for ajm to move on. Nothing against him at all just so ready for ajm threads to go away.
Of course once he’s gone we will spend the next year bitching about how little we got for him or how the whole situation was handled.
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I was so impressed by Nick Foles last night. Biggest stage of anyone's career, against the GOAT, and the dude made big time throw after big time throw. There is immense pressure in the Superbowl that starts from the moment you win your conference. Foles handled it all the way through.
The Eagles had a great team, and their QB played great. His team didn't just carry him through the playoffs. He made HUGE plays. HUGE throws. A HUGE catch. THAT is a leader and someone who doesn't wilt. Could not be more impressed. Compared to what the Bengals have at QB.... No comparison. The regular season numbers don't tell the complete story when comparing Nick Foles and Andy Dalton. Leave AJM out of it - they aren't on the same planet after last night. Nick Foles is a QB where if the team and coaching is solid he can win a Superbowl. Andy Dalton has rarely looked like that and even more rarely in prime time games or against strong competition.
It's just how it's been. I think Andy CAN do it. It's not impossible for him. But, 7 years in, he has to do it before I'll just be on board at this point.
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History has already shown that you don't have to have the greatest QB ever to win superbowls..
Foles stock has risen no doubt, but he's still Nick Foles. The guy was a toothpick away from packing it in to quit and pursue another way of earning his living which always makes a great story line, but doesn't necessarily make him the greatest QB ever to play the game.
No team ever plays 16 consecutive super bowl games in a season . It's still just one game out of 16 plus the post season.
Not the NFL, but ...it's still just football.
Suppose that for example a 3rd stringer who hasn't started all season suddenly has to play because everyone in front of him in the pecking order is injured and pulls off the championship against all odds.. That happened for Ohio State and where is the fabled winning QB now ? He isn't and never was the greatest QB in college football history.
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(02-05-2018, 11:28 AM)PDub80 Wrote: I was so impressed by Nick Foles last night. Biggest stage of anyone's career, against the GOAT, and the dude made big time throw after big time throw. There is immense pressure in the Superbowl that starts from the moment you win your conference. Foles handled it all the way through.
The Eagles had a great team, and their QB played great. His team didn't just carry him through the playoffs. He made HUGE plays. HUGE throws. A HUGE catch. THAT is a leader and someone who doesn't wilt. Could not be more impressed. Compared to what the Bengals have at QB.... No comparison. The regular season numbers don't tell the complete story when comparing Nick Foles and Andy Dalton. Leave AJM out of it - they aren't on the same planet after last night. Nick Foles is a QB where if the team and coaching is solid he can win a Superbowl. Andy Dalton has rarely looked like that and even more rarely in prime time games or against strong competition.
It's just how it's been. I think Andy CAN do it. It's not impossible for him. But, 7 years in, he has to do it before I'll just be on board at this point.
Foles also has a good, aggressive young coach. When Foles came out looking like shit after Wentz went down, he showed some life running the RPO, and his coach noticed. He then went and tweaked the offense around, and made the RPO his featured look. Instead of shoving square pegs into round holes, his coach improvised and adapted. You'll never see that here.
Lest we forget, Foles has struggled mightily in the past.
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(02-05-2018, 11:35 AM)grampahol Wrote: History has already shown that you don't have to have the greatest QB ever to win superbowls..
Foles stock has risen no doubt, but he's still Nick Foles. The guy was a toothpick away from packing it in to quit and pursue another way of earning his living which always makes a great story line, but doesn't necessarily make him the greatest QB ever to play the game.
No team ever plays 16 consecutive super bowl games in a season . It's still just one game out of 16 plus the post season.
Not the NFL, but ...it's still just football.
Suppose that for example a 3rd stringer who hasn't started all season suddenly has to play because everyone in front of him in the pecking order is injured and pulls off the championship against all odds.. That happened for Ohio State and where is the fabled winning QB now ? He isn't and never was the greatest QB in college football history.
Yep, it's happened numerous times before. Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Tom Brady.......Plunkett went on to win another one, Brady became Brady, and the rest faded into oblivion. Time will tell, but without Doug Pederson, I'm not sure I'm ready to anoint Foles just yet. I will give him credit though, he played well within the system his coach provided for him......I mean really well.
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(02-05-2018, 11:23 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I can’t wait for ajm to move on. Nothing against him at all just so ready for ajm threads to go away.
Of course once he’s gone we will spend the next year bitching about how little we got for him or how the whole situation was handled.
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You know .even if he's traded for the moon ,stars and the sun and never wins a single game the rest of eternity there will still be someone making the claim he could've been the greatest QB in Bengals history and it was the worst trade ever..
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(02-05-2018, 11:38 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yep, it's happened numerous times before. Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Tom Brady.......Plunkett went on to win another one, Brady became Brady, and the rest faded into oblivion. Time will tell, but without Doug Pederson, I'm not sure I'm ready to anoint Foles just yet. I will give him credit though, he played well within the system his coach provided for him......I mean really well.
and is about to get paid.
Probably overpaid.
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(02-05-2018, 11:38 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yep, it's happened numerous times before. Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Tom Brady.......Plunkett went on to win another one, Brady became Brady, and the rest faded into oblivion. Time will tell, but without Doug Pederson, I'm not sure I'm ready to anoint Foles just yet. I will give him credit though, he played well within the system his coach provided for him......I mean really well.
Sure, he had a hell of a game. He'll always have something to hang his hat on and it's going to be one of the story lines to endure for years to come for Philly fans..
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(02-05-2018, 11:46 AM)grampahol Wrote: Sure, he had a hell of a game. He'll always have something to hang his hat on and it's going to be one of the story lines to endure for years to come for Philly fans..
Absolutely.
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(02-05-2018, 11:42 AM)Go Cards Wrote: and is about to get paid.
Probably overpaid.
They're all overpaid in my opinion. Other than providing us with entertainment football players in general don't really provide societies a hell of a lot. It's not as if they win crucial battles to save us all from the evil clutches of dictatorial rule or anything. lol
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(02-05-2018, 11:35 AM)Wyche Wrote: Lest we forget, Foles has struggled mightily in the past.
I wouldn't toss Wentz in the trash for Foles that's for sure, but Foles was pretty good as long as he wasn't playing for Jeff Fisher or Chip Kelly, right?
(02-05-2018, 11:52 AM)grampahol Wrote: They're all overpaid in my opinion. Other than providing us with entertainment football players in general don't really provide societies a hell of a lot. It's not as if they win crucial battles to save us all from the evil clutches of dictatorial rule or anything. lol
The free-market dupes us again!
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(02-05-2018, 11:52 AM)grampahol Wrote: They're all overpaid in my opinion. Other than providing us with entertainment football players in general don't really provide societies a hell of a lot. It's not as if they win crucial battles to save us all from the evil clutches of dictatorial rule or anything. lol
Of course they are overpaid.
But they generate the money by us watching. So basically it is our fault.
Would rather them get it for risking their health for our entertainment than an owner like MB just getting more money by not paying them and really doing nothing.
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(02-05-2018, 12:05 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Of course they are overpaid.
But they generate the money by us watching. So basically it is our fault.
Would rather them get it for risking their health for our entertainment than an owner like MB just getting more money by not paying them and really doing nothing.
Part of me says pro athletes are overpaid. Then I realize Nick Foles could learn to do my job in about a week and I could spend the rest of my life trying to throw a TD in the NFL and never succeed. Such is life. When millions of people care if/how you do your job and even pay to watch you do it you'll be asking for a raise, too.
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Those guys put their bodies through absolute hell. They’re at risk of CTE, and many of them have terrible quality of life after retiring. They earn every penny.
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(02-05-2018, 12:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Those guys put their bodies through absolute hell. They’re at risk of CTE, and many of them have terrible quality of life after retiring. They earn every penny.
You don't even need to bring that stuff into it, because there are dangerous jobs that have much lower pay. The bottom line is that the job requirements to be a professional athlete and to perform at that level make it something a very low number of people can do. As of 2018 our global and domestic economy has a great demand for professional football players.
Huge demand + low supply = big wages
This is the way it is, folks. If you don't like it you can either become a pro athlete yourself and show us how anyone can be a SB MVP, or you could vote Communist in our next election and demand wages be altered to fit your view of "fairness" and not an actual free-market economy.
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(02-05-2018, 01:43 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: ![[Image: dm_130119_superbowlqbhostetler.jpg]](http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2013/0119/dm_130119_superbowlqbhostetler/dm_130119_superbowlqbhostetler.jpg)
That's probably the best comparison.
(02-05-2018, 01:48 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Also Congrats to Foles, he played a hell of a game. It's sad cause I just can't picture Dalton playing that good in the postseason ever. They have a coach with balls and a QB that takes care of the ball. A coach who was coaching high school 10 years ago just won the SB with a backup QB, meanwhile in that 10 years Marvin has had multiple pro bowlers, several roster overhauls and can't win 1 freakin playoff game. Awesome...
Doug Pederson and Frank Reich are master play-callers and have set up an excellent system for QB's. I'd love to see Dalton and Foles swap situations. Do I think Dalton would nail it quite as good as Foles did? Maybe, maybe not...but I'd guaran-damn-tee some would be amazed at Dalton's turnaround in the playoffs. I'd bet the house on it.
Meanwhile, I'd also bet the house that Foles chokes just like everyone else under Mervy and whatever group of yes-men are beneath him. It's easy to make confident throws and look good when the scheme is amazing, guys are always open and everything works. On Marv teams, the scheme is predictable, guys are often blanketed, and nothing works in the playoffs.
(02-05-2018, 12:03 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I wouldn't toss Wentz in the trash for Foles that's for sure, but Foles was pretty good as long as he wasn't playing for Jeff Fisher or Chip Kelly, right?
The free-market dupes us again!
He had that 119 rating season playing for Chip, so really it was just Jeff Fisher, who also sank Jared Goff.
The same Jeff Fisher that gets compared to Merv.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
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(02-05-2018, 12:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Those guys put their bodies through absolute hell. They’re at risk of CTE, and many of them have terrible quality of life after retiring. They earn every penny.
Apparently you have no idea what it's like to be the military. You work about 18 hours a day for what amounts to a little above minimum wage.
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(02-05-2018, 12:53 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Apparently you have no idea what it's like to be the military. You work about 18 hours a day for what amounts to a little above minimum wage.
Tough job, no doubt about it. My girlfriend was in the Army, and served in Iraq. Not going to start comparing what’s worse between the two though.
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(02-05-2018, 12:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Tough job, no doubt about it. My girlfriend was in the Army, and served in Iraq. Not going to start comparing what’s worse between the two though.
Thank you Nicomo
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