Are Schools Too Protective Of Kids?

[BFritz21]

And I mean emotionally.

What I mean is do schools put labels on kids just because they might have an issue or condition that isn't truly accurate to every kid in that category but still treat them all the same?

Yesterday, I was presenting at a school and needed to ask a student to read it out loud and one student to run my PowerPoint. I typically ask one boy and one girl and sometimes I try to ask kids who don't look as popular or as confident because it helps build their self-esteem or at least make them feel special. Considering that, I asked a girl who was a bit heavier and looked shy how she was and just making small talk, and I could tell she it was making her happy, so I asked her if she would run my presentation, and she lights up even more and says yes.

The teacher calls me over and tells me that the girl has Autism and that I should ask someone else, which I know there's different levels of Autism and kids have different symptoms, but I still couldn't see anything. I thought "go to hell, I'm keeping her as my helper," so I roll back over and explain all the details (there's some tricky parts that almost every kid messes up), but the girl understands it all, runs my presentation perfectly, and does a great job.

Afterwards, I always get selfies with kids who help me and anyone else that wants one, so I asked her and she just lit-up again, and then she pulled out her own phone and asked if she could take a selfie, which I obviously said yes and she lit-up even more (which didn't seem possible after the first time).

Like I said, I know kids with Autism are different a lot, but do schools make mistakes and put them all in the same category? Are some kids unable to reach their full potential because they're labeled with Autism or anything else so they're all treated one way instead of looking at the individual child?

I talked to a teacher and he seemed to share my thoughts about it, but what does everyone else think?

[*Go Cards*]

(02-15-2018, 08:53 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: And I mean emotionally.

What I mean is do schools put labels on kids just because they might have an issue or condition that isn't truly accurate to every kid in that category but still treat them all the same?

Yesterday, I was presenting at a school and needed to ask a student to read it out loud and one student to run my PowerPoint.  I typically ask one boy and one girl and sometimes I try to ask kids who don't look as popular or as confident because it helps build their self-esteem or at least make them feel special.  Considering that, I asked a girl who was a bit heavier and looked shy how she was and just making small talk, and I could tell she it was making her happy, so I asked her if she would run my presentation, and she lights up even more and says yes.

The teacher calls me over and tells me that the girl has Autism and that I should ask someone else, which I know there's different levels of Autism and kids have different symptoms, but I still couldn't see anything.  I thought "go to hell, I'm keeping her as my helper," so I roll back over and explain all the details (there's some tricky parts that almost every kid messes up), but the girl understands it all, runs my presentation perfectly, and does a great job.

Afterwards, I always get selfies with kids who help me and anyone else that wants one, so I asked her and she just lit-up again, and then she pulled out her own phone and asked if she could take a selfie, which I obviously said yes and she lit-up even more (which didn't seem possible after the first time).

Like I said, I know kids with Autism are different a lot, but do schools make mistakes and put them all in the same category?  Are some kids unable to reach their full potential because they're labeled with Autism or anything else so they're all treated one way instead of looking at the individual child?

I talked to a teacher and he seemed to share my thoughts about it, but what does everyone else think?

Nice job and yes not just schools but society in general is overprotective it seems and it is more detrimental than helpful usually. 

Building confidence in an individual as you did is never a bad thing.  

[fredtoast]

I don't think seeing a child perform one single task gives you more knowledge than a teacher who has supervised the child for a long period of time. The girl might have just gotten lucky, but if she had messed up it could have been much more traumatic for her than a child without her condition.

When I was a teenager I had a friend who thought it was okay to drive at very high speed because he had done it before. When his parents told him not to drive fast he said the exact same thing as you did "Go to hell. I am driving fast."

Guess what happened to him.

[BFritz21]

(02-15-2018, 10:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think seeing a child perform one single task gives you more knowledge than a teacher who has supervised the child for a long period of time.  The girl might have just gotten lucky, but if she had messed up it could have been much more traumatic for her than a child without her condition.

When I was a teenager I had a friend who thought it was okay to drive at very high speed because he had done it before.  When his parents told him not to drive fast he said the exact same thing as you did "Go to hell.  I am driving fast."

Guess what happened to him.

Typical Fred with his typical Democrat mind- baby everyone and just give give give instead of giving people the power to better themselves- and also trying to discredit what an awesome moment this was for the girl and what a learning experience this should have been for the teachers.

How was it lucky that she understood the instructions and followed them perfectly?  Like I said, I instruct kids without issues and 50% of them still mess it up.

Also, you ignore the part about lumping all kids with special conditions together when each one is unique.

Like I said, we need to treat each case individually, empower kids, and give them opportunities to better themselves and not hold them down just because they might be slightly different.

Wouldn't expect anything less.........  keep being you, Fred 

[fredtoast]

(02-15-2018, 11:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Also, you ignore the part about lumping all kids with special conditions together when each one is unique.

Like I said, we need to treat each case individually, empower kids, and give them opportunities to better themselves and not hold them down just because they might be slightly different.

I agree 100% with this.  In fact most childhood development experts also agree with you.

I just don't think you spending 15 minutes with one student makes you smarter about this issue than people who have trained and studied their entire life to deal with children that have disabilities.  It is like dealing with sick people.  You might spend 15 minutes with a terminally ill child and get the impression that the child was not sick at all.

[fredtoast]

(02-15-2018, 11:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:  Like I said, I instruct kids without issues and 50% of them still mess it up.

You must suck at giving instructions.

[BFritz21]

(02-16-2018, 12:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree 100% with this.  In fact most childhood development experts also agree with you.

I just don't think you spending 15 minutes with one student makes you smarter about this issue than people who have trained and studied their entire life to deal with children that have disabilities.  It is like dealing with sick people.  You might spend 15 minutes with a terminally ill child and get the impression that the child was not sick at all.

I'm not saying it makes me smarter or knowing more, what I am saying is that, just from talking to this girl, I was able to determine that she was smart enough and could function enough to complete what I asked of her.

And you're doing exactly what I expected you to do which is lumping them all in as the same, just like the teachers did.  

(02-16-2018, 12:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You must suck at giving instructions.

Or it's just because kids get over-anxious because what happens is a video pauses for three seconds and then starts back up again, and they just click while it's paused because they think it's over even though I tell them beforehand that it will do it.
  

[fredtoast]

(02-16-2018, 12:37 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: And you're doing exactly what I expected you to do which is lumping them all in as the same, just like the teachers did.  

  

No Brad.  I am not doing that at all.  And you don't know if the teacher did it either.

You can't fully evaluate a child on one 15 minute task.  That is why I used the example of the kid who drove too fast.  The fact that he was able to do it once does not mean he could do it all of the time.

If you were so perfect at evaluating the skills of children then you would ALWAYS pick a child who could do it without making a mistake.  But the fact is that by your own admission you screw it up almost half of the time by picking a child who is unable to complete the task properly.

[BFritz21]

(02-16-2018, 12:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No Brad.  I am not doing that at all.  And you don't know if the teacher did it either.

You can't fully evaluate a child on one 15 minute task.  That is why I used the example of the kid who drove too fast.  The fact that he was able to do it once does not mean he could do it all of the time.

If you were so perfect at evaluating the skills of children then you would ALWAYS pick a child who could do it without making a mistake.  But the fact is that by your own admission you screw it up almost half of the time by picking a child who is unable to complete the task properly.

You're so full of shit.  I don't screw it up.  Kids just get anxious.  They do exactly what I tell them NOT to do.  Once again, though, you post like you know what's going on when you have absolutely no clue.  Typical.

I can evaluate her ability to perform a simple task like the one I asked her to do.  This teacher had no idea whether or not kids messed up on it, like I mentioned, because I just told her that the girl would just have to click.  In fact, another student did mess up on it.  The point is, even if she would have messed up the video part, it happens so it wouldn't have been a big deal.

The kid who drove too fast is a horrible example because that's not completing a simple task, that's completing a difficult and dangerous task.

[fredtoast]

(02-16-2018, 01:26 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: You're so full of shit.  I don't screw it up.  Kids just get anxious.  They do exactly what I tell them NOT to do.  Once again, though, you post like you know what's going on when you have absolutely no clue.  Typical.

My point was not whose fault it was.  My point was that you can not evaluate these children well enough to know which ones can do it and which ones can't.  You don't know more about then in 10 minutes than their teachers who have worked with them for months.

(02-16-2018, 01:26 AM)BFritz21 Wrote:   The point is, even if she would have messed up the video part, it happens so it wouldn't have been a big deal.

You have no idea how it might have affected her.  That was one of my original points.  She might have freaked out and made a scene.  It might have traumatized her much worse than an average child.

[fredtoast]

(02-16-2018, 01:26 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: The kid who drove too fast is a horrible example because that's not completing a simple task, that's completing a difficult and dangerous task.

If the task you gave this girl was so simple then why doi half of the kids who do it mess it up?

My point is perfectly valid.  Just because a child does something once does not mean they have mastered the skills.  It could have just been luck.

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-16-2018, 01:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If the task you gave this girl was so simple then why doi half of the kids who do it mess it up?

My point is perfectly valid.  Just because a child does something once does not mean they have mastered the skills.  It could have just been luck.

So...your ideas on if schools are too protective of kids are?

[BFritz21]

(02-16-2018, 01:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: My point was not whose fault it was.  My point was that you can not evaluate these children well enough to know which ones can do it and which ones can't.  You don't know more about then in 10 minutes than their teachers who have worked with them for months.

Once again, like always, you're changing your argument because you're full of shit.


My point was that they categorize them and lump them all together and make them feel like they can't do things that they can.  I realized that this girl had function of her hands and that she was at least mentally aware of what I was saying and comprehended it.  

(02-16-2018, 01:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You have no idea how it might have affected her.  That was one of my original points.  She might have freaked out and made a scene.  It might have traumatized her much worse than an average child.

Or the teachers are like you and just assumed that it would and never took the time to realize that she's not as bad as they think just because she technically has Autism.

That's my point that they label them from the start.

And why would she have freaked out?  When kids press it, they keep going and don't even realize that they made a mistake, which I politely tell them how they messed up or just fix it myself.

(02-16-2018, 01:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If the task you gave this girl was so simple then why doi half of the kids who do it mess it up?

My point is perfectly valid.  Just because a child does something once does not mean they have mastered the skills.  It could have just been luck.

Because they get anxious.  

And your point is nowhere near valid because I didn't say she mastered any skill, I'm saying she was able to accomplish a simple task.

[*Go Cards*]

Never read anywhere that the teacher had worked with that child for months.

Maybe it was a substitute or a class that had just started ?

No matter, would like to thank Brad for taking the time out of his schedule to work with kids.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

I don't know. I would need to know about more than one comment by one teacher about one student at one school before I started lumping all the teachers at all the schools together as acting a certain way.

[HarleyDog]

Kids learn life lessons through triumphs and failures. Yes, even autistic children. Think you did good here Brad. Although I know what Fred is trying to say, and he’s right. There is no way you could have learned More about this girl in 15 minutes than what her teacher knew. In this case I do think the teacher was a little over protective, but in today’s society, if the child would have had some sort of episode there likely would be parents in her face wanting her job. So, in a sense, the teacher had to suggest an alternative.

Where you are right Brad is that society does coddle children too much. What you did was commendable. Had it backfired, it would have been condemnable, but it didn’t. You had faith in her and she stepped to the plate and Hit it out of the park. If she was lit up as you say, you have created a moment in her life to reflect on when challenged. So for someone who has overcome many hurdles in his own life, it’s good to read about you helping someone else with theirs, when society whispered “pick someone else.”

[XenoMorph]

This goes beyond just special needs kids... all kids now are told they are special and they are not they aren't learning they have actually accomplish things in life everything being handed to them. they are also not learning how to deal with any sort of criticism..

Parents are also to blame here... they have made this next generation SOFT

Here is your 112th place trophy....

[fredtoast]

(02-16-2018, 08:38 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I don't know. I would need to know about more than one comment by one teacher about one student at one school before I started lumping all the teachers at all the schools together as acting a certain way.

This.

Brad knows nothing of how these children are treated or taught.  They could all be assigned different skills based on their abilities.  He knows absolutely zero about there lesson plans or special needs. He also knows nothing about autism or how children with autism can behave.  He has no background training in child development or psychology.

Yet he thinks himself an expert who knows more than the experts who have devoted their careers to working with children.  He is like the uncle who shows up and plays catch with an autistic child for 10 minutes and then declares that the child is fine and the doctors and psychologists and the child's parents are all stupid because the child doesn't really have any problems.

[fredtoast]

(02-16-2018, 11:40 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: This goes beyond just special needs kids... all kids now are told they are special and they are not they aren't learning they have actually accomplish things in life everything being handed to them. they are also not learning how to deal with any sort of criticism..

Parents are also to blame here... they have made this next generation SOFT

Here is your 112th place trophy....

Todays children are less violent, smoke less, and get pregnant less than your generation.

Children today deal with much more pressure and stress.  Athletes have to specialize and work all year round to make traveling teams and get scholarship offers in 8th grade.  There are more standardized tests for scholars.  Social media has exposed them more to the ugly side people only show online and they can't escape social media because EVERYONE has to be on it.

I'll see your 112th place trophy and raise you a 9 year old kid who can only play one sport and has to do it all year round because that is the only chance he has to make an AAU team and have a shot at a scholarship in 3 years.  He can't play in the local rec league with his best friends because that is for "losers".

[*Go Cards*]

(02-16-2018, 12:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Todays children are less violent, smoke less, and get pregnant less than your generation.

Children today deal with much more pressure and stress.  Athletes have to specialize and work all year round to make traveling teams and get scholarship offers in 8th grade.  There are more standardized tests for scholars.  Social media has exposed them more to the ugly side people only show online and they can't escape social media because EVERYONE has to be on it.

I'll see your 112th place trophy and raise you a 9 year old kid who can only play one sport and has to do it all year round because that is the only chance he has to make an AAU team and have a shot at a scholarship in 3 years.  He can't play in the local rec league with his best friends because that is for "losers".

Do not know which stat shows this because when I was in school there were never gun violence at school like today. 

In fact there were less than 10 murders a year in Louisville which now there are many more with way less kids than us boomers. 

Smoking was glorified on TV back then and schools even had smoking areas for children where I went. It was way more excepted then opposed to now. 

Pregnancy ?  Once again there were way more kids then and free porn was not accessible as today.  Bet masturbation is up and that is probably not a good thing. 

My nephew played football and baseball and got offered a scholarship in both and excepted the baseball. Had many common players from his AAU elite baseball team that played football with him as well. Every single one got a scholarship coming out of Ballard HS.  

Betting heroin and overdoses are way up nowadays as well. 

Get the teacher argument but not some of this even if stats support it.