Contract status of our o-line

[*psychdoctor*]

I am hoping the Bengals get either Nelson, Hernandez, or Price if not two out of the three.
Maybe they will sign a decent OT in FA. They need a lot of help. The good news is that Pollack can have the opportunity to form the O-Line based on his preference and input.

[Hoofhearted]

(02-21-2018, 01:46 PM)depthchart Wrote: No position is a "slam dunk".  (See our last two early wide receiver picks Ross (1st round) & Boyd (2nd round) & Yes, they could still pan out.)

Last Draft and off the top of my head, we saw 1st rounder Ryan Ramczyk starting at right tackle for the Saints in the playoffs, 2nd rounder Cam Robinson starting at Left tackle for the Jags in the playoffs and 3rd round Center Pat Eiflen starting for the Vikings in the playoffs.

The point isn't whether we Draft first team All pros but rather that we view our weakest areas on the team with an eye on bringing in potential starter Upgrades as the opportunity to do so presents itself in drafts. (Would be nice if we did so in Free Agency also but not likely)

We need to be able to recognize the potential UPGRADE DIFFERENTIAL between what we have starting for us now and an available player in a Draft, (as Tom Coughlin did with Cam Robinson in Jacksonville) and then INVEST our pick in an attempt at an upgrade of that starting weak link.

Be aggressive in taking swings at weak link starter upgrades and make the starting team on the field better. Then go back to drafting a starter replacement two years ahead of time or getting a 5th corner in place or drafting a Toy fastest combine speed ever guy etc.

The Bengals are good at keeping a starting running back IN PLACE while turning over the last one by making sure they get a THOROUGHBRED to replace him but do not do the same with many other positions.

They would never FLOUNDER around with a serviceable or worse running back for very long but are willing to FLOUNDER around with other starters from season to season at times.

In short, INVEST in upgrading the 4 or 5 weak link starters with early round stabs at worthy candidates that can likely UPGRADE and we will begin to run out of weak links.

Then they can go back to whatever it is they have been doing all of these years until more starting weak links present themselves.

They clearly know "what" needs to upgrade. But the plan then becomes "who" and "where" to do that at. And again, take into consideration the value perspective of each position. They need to upgrade both tackle spots, LB, and safety first. Guards are a dime a dozen. 

[Hoofhearted]

(02-21-2018, 01:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I didn't think non-first rounders had option years on their contracts?

You're right, i apologize for not remembering that.

[sandwedge]

(02-21-2018, 02:01 PM)ochocincos Wrote: IMO the only "good" OT classes since 2014 look to be 2014 and 2016. Specifically, Jake Matthews, Taylor Lewan, Ronnie Stanley, and Jack Conklin. Ramczyk was good at RT from the 2017 draft but the rest of the OTs were not good. 2015 was a very bad year for OTs.

And while I agree with you that the Bengals might not find a good starter at OT in this draft, the only other options are rolling out with abysmal Cedric Ogbuehi or forcing Boling outside which he wasn't that great at either. Boling is a fill-in for LT, not the answer. So if the Bengals don't try to upgrade OT this offseason with either an early draft pick or somehow landing Solder in FA, I don't see much reason to hope for good play at LT in 2018. But that could also be my pessimism that Ogbuehi will magically become a good player after one offseason with Pollack.

Maybe the Bengals go bargain-bin shopping with Greg Robinson, former #2 overall pick in 2014 that was bad up to this point, moved from the Rams to Detroit, and is now a FA.
I have more faith in Pollack coaching up Robinson into something compared Ogbuehi based on their strengths and weaknesses and the scheme Pollack is looking to run.
But it would still be hard to have true faith in the OT position if the only player the Bengals brought in to compete with Ogbuehi was Robinson.

IMO I think we can find an upgrade in RD2 at OT. I have a player in mind, but I don't want to turn this into a draft forum. My belief is, if you're drafting in the top half of RD1, you had better get somebody that is going to elevate a certain position of weakness, tremendously! I also believe in the BPA philosophy, just this year we need a lot at certain positions. 
We need to be big players in FA this year. That would help.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-21-2018, 03:01 PM)sandwedge Wrote: IMO I think we can find an upgrade in RD2 at OT. I have a player in mind, but I don't want to turn this into a draft forum. My belief is, if you're drafting in the top half of RD1, you had better get somebody that is going to elevate a certain position of weakness, tremendously! I also believe in the BPA philosophy, just this year we need a lot at certain positions. 
We need to be big players in FA this year. That would help.

I agree with Rd 2 having probably just about as solid of a chance to find an upgrade compared to Rd 1.
In my original statement, I said Days 1/2, which are Rounds 1-3. I never said the OT had to come in Rd 1.
But the talent dropoff on Day 3 compared to Days 1/2 is usually pretty substantial. It takes an amazing scouting department to find those diamonds in the rough on Day 3 and the Bengals have not had great luck with that (just like most teams).

Given the propaganda being spat around by Hobson, Marvin, and Mike Brown since Marvin was retained, the Bengals are saying they'll change but actions are indicating they really won't.
Therefore, I don't expect the Bengals to be "big players" in FA because they will want to prioritize their own first.
I expect them to be the same ole Bengals and the only players that will be acquired in FA will be Bengals players that have hit FA. Any outside FA will come after the first week, like always.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-21-2018, 02:29 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: They clearly know "what" needs to upgrade. But the plan then becomes "who" and "where" to do that at. And again, take into consideration the value perspective of each position. They need to upgrade both tackle spots, LB, and safety first. Guards are a dime a dozen. 

C needs upgraded before Safety.

[Hoofhearted]

(02-21-2018, 03:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: C needs upgraded before Safety.

Meh, I am tired of getting beat by tight-ends and lack of turnovers on D. Give me a ball-hawking safety over a center any day of the week. 

[jj22]

(02-21-2018, 03:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: C needs upgraded before Safety.

I'd go as far to say DT as well. Unless we going to start Simms another year.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-21-2018, 04:16 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'd go as far to say DT as well. Unless we going to start Simms another year.

Sims is a FA now and was worse than Billings/Glasgow IIRC.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-21-2018, 01:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I get that fewer and fewer OTs in the draft are panning out, but the likelihood of finding an actual good one gets lower and lower as each round goes by based on probability of remaining OTs to select from.

This is where actually scouting players well, comes into play.  With so many OL coming from colleges that run option offenses, it's hard to know if those players are going to translate well.  It would seem to me that paying particular attention to players from "traditional" or Pro-style offenses is where the smart money should get put down.  You want guys that are very physical, experienced run blockers, guys that have demonstrated the ability to hold a block for 3-4 seconds in passing plays.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-21-2018, 04:06 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Meh, I am tired of getting beat by tight-ends and lack of turnovers on D. Give me a ball-hawking safety over a center any day of the week. 

Then we probably need to be looking at LB, before Safety.

[XenoMorph]

(02-21-2018, 06:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: This is where actually scouting players well, comes into play.  With so many OL coming from colleges that run option offenses, it's hard to know if those players are going to translate well.  It would seem to me that paying particular attention to players from "traditional" or Pro-style offenses is where the smart money should get put down.  You want guys that are very physical, experienced run blockers, guys that have demonstrated the ability to hold a block for 3-4 seconds in passing plays.

I'm gonna say the new coach will be a better scout than Alexander.... 

[XenoMorph]

(02-21-2018, 05:03 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Sims is a FA now and was worse than Billings/Glasgow IIRC.

Thought Billings and Glasgow were starting to look good towards the seasons end.  Sure they have some work to do but the experience helps and another offseason in the weight room helps.  we still got a spot and room to improve.  If there is someone they have rated higher than the pick at hand I'm sure they pull the trigger.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-21-2018, 06:19 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: I'm gonna say the new coach will be a better scout than Alexander.... 

This is also the first time Coach Pollack will be building his own line, from scratch.  In Dallas, he had the benefit of taking over a spectacularly stocked group, assembled by Bill Callahan.  

With that in mind, I'm not expecting any "instant miracles" from the OL, but I am looking forward to watching a more hard-nosed, aggressive unit out there.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-21-2018, 06:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote:
This is where actually scouting players well, comes into play.  With so many OL coming from colleges that run option offenses, it's hard to know if those players are going to translate well.  It would seem to me that paying particular attention to players from "traditional" or Pro-style offenses is where the smart money should get put down.  You want guys that are very physical, experienced run blockers, guys that have demonstrated the ability to hold a block for 3-4 seconds in passing plays.

And this is where the Bengals are lacking somewhat because they have one of, if not the, smallest scouting departments in the league. I'm sure the Bengals have quality scouts but 5 scouts can't physically scout as many prospects as 10 scouts for example.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-21-2018, 06:21 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Thought Billings and Glasgow were starting to look good towards the seasons end.  Sure they have some work to do but the experience helps and another offseason in the weight room helps.  we still got a spot and room to improve.  If there is someone they have rated higher than the pick at hand I'm sure they pull the trigger.

Out of all the starting positions on the team that need improved performance, I'm most willing to risk NT with the continued development of Billings and Glasgow rather than spend a draft pick or bring in some expensive FA. Now if the argument is to bring in a backup 3T, I'm all for that.

[fredtoast]

(02-21-2018, 04:06 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Meh, I am tired of getting beat by tight-ends and lack of turnovers on D. Give me a ball-hawking safety over a center any day of the week. 

Bengals were top half of the league in defense and worst in the league in offense.

How can you possibly be more concerned about the defense than the offense?

[XenoMorph]

(02-21-2018, 06:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: This is also the first time Coach Pollack will be building his own line, from scratch.  In Dallas, he had the benefit of taking over a spectacularly stocked group, assembled by Bill Callahan.  

With that in mind, I'm not expecting any "instant miracles" from the OL, but I am looking forward to watching a more hard-nosed, aggressive unit out there.

probly take a year or 2 to get the line flowing the exact way he wants... But a good coach will adapt and get the most out of what he has.. something we have lacked the last 2 years on Offense in seemingly any capacity from the coaches.

[Hoofhearted]

(02-21-2018, 06:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals were top half of the league in defense and worst in the league in offense.

How can you possibly be more concerned about the defense than the offense?

Basing this off Eifert resigning. If Eifert doesn’t sign, then things change quite a bit. They’d probably have to commit to running the ball more effectively and setting up PA. But with Eifert back and hopefully healthy, he transforms this offense..

And a great defense will carry this team. Jags had beat D and got 21 picks. We had 11. That’s a lot of points taken away. Also, Andy has weapons, line is a mess, but I think they can put a competent line together if they’re committed easier with how fast Andy gets rid of the ball. a safety (or even LB) that can possibly transform our defense is what I’m putting my hopes on.

[hollodero]

(02-21-2018, 12:32 PM)jj22 Wrote: A little something called free agency helped.....

Now there's an idea then, right.

I doubt we can draft our way out of this mess, effective next year. But effective next year is what's needed, this team doesn't have years to give away now.