GIVE ME YOUR BENGALS DRAFT GRADES!

[Beaker]

It seems to me that ppl who are giving this draft a lower grade are doing so for lack of picking more O linemen. But most ppl also seem to forget that its been known for Months that this draft class was weak for O line.

Also ppl seem to forget that Westerman and Redmond, and to an extent Kent Perkins all played very well last year when they finally got their chance. They were not just coming in late in games and getting mop up garbage experience. They played full games against two teams in DET and BAL who both needed to win to make the playoffs. And these guys played extremely well, and in fact, dominated for periods of time.

I would much rather go with the commodity we know in Westerman, Redmond and Perkins than in reaching for an unknown in a weak O line class. I give the coaches the benefit of knowing what we have vs what was available when we picked. You cannot just draft for the O line, we had holes all over the roster that they have addressed very well with a wide range of picks.

I give this draft a strong B. It did not get an A because we did not have sliders like we got last year at tremendous value like Willis and Lawson. But that's OK, sometimes the picks do not fall like they did last year.

[Circleville Guy]

(04-29-2018, 03:24 PM)Beaker Wrote: It seems to me that ppl who are giving this draft a lower grade are doing so for lack of picking more O linemen. But most ppl also seem to forget that its been known for Months that this draft class was weak for O line.

Also ppl seem to forget that Westerman and Redmond, and to an extent Kent Perkins all played very well last year when they finally got their chance. They were not just coming in late in games and getting mop up garbage experience. They played full games against two teams in DET and BAL who both needed to win to make the playoffs. And these guys played extremely well, and in fact, dominated for periods of time.

I would much rather go with the commodity we know in Westerman, Redmond and Perkins than in reaching for an unknown in a weak O line class. I give the coaches the benefit of knowing what we have vs what was available when we picked. You cannot just draft for the O line, we had holes all over the roster that they have addressed very well with a wide range of picks.

I give this draft a strong B. It did not get an A because we did not have sliders like we got last year at tremendous value like Willis and Lawson. But that's OK, sometimes the picks do not fall like they did last year.

Are you confident with the starting RT? Who is the starting RT? If just one of the starting linemen get hurt, are you comfortable with the current depth across the line? What other area on the team is as thin? I gave the grade as a C-. I do like several of the players that they landed. It may have been a weak class for OL but they did pass on some guys that were on the board. The team did fill some holes, so did every other team. People get too emotional with a A or an F. In reality, it’s usually somewhere in the middle.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-29-2018, 03:24 PM)Beaker Wrote: It seems to me that ppl who are giving this draft a lower grade are doing so for lack of picking more O linemen. But most ppl also seem to forget that its been known for Months that this draft class was weak for O line.

Also ppl seem to forget that Westerman and Redmond, and to an extent Kent Perkins all played very well last year when they finally got their chance. They were not just coming in late in games and getting mop up garbage experience. They played full games against two teams in DET and BAL who both needed to win to make the playoffs. And these guys played extremely well, and in fact, dominated for periods of time.

I would much rather go with the commodity we know in Westerman, Redmond and Perkins than in reaching for an unknown in a weak O line class. I give the coaches the benefit of knowing what we have vs what was available when we picked. You cannot just draft for the O line, we had holes all over the roster that they have addressed very well with a wide range of picks.

I give this draft a strong B. It did not get an A because we did not have sliders like we got last year at tremendous value like Willis and Lawson. But that's OK, sometimes the picks do not fall like they did last year.

Nobody forgot anything. 

1. Some people may not be 100% sold on Westerman and Redmond after a couple games.

Or maybe we have qualms about Fisher and his mediocre play + heart problems.

2. I'm not sure how weak this class really was. 

- 6 o-linemen taken in round 1.
- 10 taken in the first 39 picks. 
- 6 taken in round 2.
- 8 taken in round 3.
- 3 taken in round 4
- 5 taken in round 5
- 6 taken in round 6
- 4 taken in round 7

The Jessie Bates pick could've been used on Brian O'Neill or Brandon Parker, a pair of tackles that went a few picks later.
The Hubbard or Jefferson picks could've been Orlando Brown, Joseph Noteboom, Alex Brown or Chukwuma Okorafor.
Walton could've been Rick Leonard or Will Richardson.
Harris could've been Tyrell Crosby, Wyatt Teller or JaMarco Jones.


Obviously I'm not saying we should've went o-line all over the place, but there was some quality there. It was a little frustrating to watch Baltimore and Pittsburgh grab tackles right after we got Hubbard and Jefferson. I would've swapped Jefferson for Brown or Okorafor there. Jefferson seems like the super athletic project that never works here.

If not there, we also passed on Tyrell Crosby in the 5th. A guy CBS called a "mauler" and "a tremendous value".

Mind you, I haven't ripped this draft. Love it for the most part. I just have to ding them for not going o-line again until the very end. I think there was some quality guys available to us.

[HarleyDog]

(04-29-2018, 04:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Nobody forgot anything. 

1. Some people may not be 100% sold on Westerman and Redmond after a couple games.

2. I'm not sure how weak this class really was. 

- 6 o-linemen taken in round 1.
- 10 taken in the first 39 picks. 
- 6 taken in round 2.
- 8 taken in round 3.
- 3 taken in round 4
- 5 taken in round 5
- 6 taken in round 6
- 4 taken in round 7

The Jessie Bates pick could've been used on Brian O'Neill or Brandon Parker, a pair of tackles that went a few picks later.
The Hubbard or Jefferson picks could've been Orlando Brown, Joseph Noteboom, Alex Brown or Chukwuma Okorafor.
Walton could've been Rick Leonard or Will Richardson.
Harris could've been Tyrell Crosby, Wyatt Teller or JaMarco Jones.


Obviously I'm not saying we should've went o-line all over the place, but there was some quality there. It was a little frustrating to watch Baltimore and Pittsburgh grab tackles right after we got Hubbard and Jefferson. I would've swapped Jefferson for Brown or Okorafor there. Jefferson seems like the super athletic project that never works here.

If not there, we also passed on Tyrell Crosby in the 5th. A guy CBS called a "mauler" and "a tremendous value".

Mind you, I haven't ripped this draft. Love it for the most part. I just have to ding them for not going o-line again until the very end. I think there was some quality guys available to us.

This was a lot of what I was hoping for but shit, I'm gonna let it go, because like yourself, I don't hate what we got. Then again, I could just be doing what I do every year. Falling into the hype and believing when the major obstacles still remain. I think you get what I'm sayin. 

[*psychdoctor*]

(04-29-2018, 10:58 AM)bambino5130 Wrote: I agree 100%. I’m still pissed the Bengals did take another early Guard or Tackle for the right side & I believe this lack of a bold move will haunt & cost the Bengals this year.

Don’t get me wrong though, I really like the Bates, Hubbard, & Jefferson picks. I think they are potentially great players & at areas of need. However if the Bengals would have traded up in the 2nd round & took Hernandez or Daniels I would have popped champagne bottles as that would be filling a greatest need.

All that said I’m really confused on what the Bengals did Day 3 Rounds 4-7 & personally  not happy with many of these picks.

Final Grade:
C +

Quality "named" guards were hot commodity early in the draft.  I was surprised.  

[Beaker]

(04-29-2018, 04:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Some people may not be 100% sold on Westerman and Redmond after a couple games.

I am never 100% sold on any linemen other than Anthony Munoz, Willie Anderson and Whit worth. But at least we know they can stand up and play well against NFL level competition. Like I said, they did really well against first teamers on teams who HAD to have wins, and won the battles. If the coaches prefer them vs unknown commodities in draft picks from a weak O line class, then I'm good with that.

[*psychdoctor*]

I am just going to add this: I have to trust Frank Pollack on this one. Crosby and Brown to average fans looked like the right picks but I think the Bengals changed their draft schema this draft. I think they were looking for "athletes" with high football IQ and high work ethic types. They avoided players that may have had weight issues or poor work ethic.

If this is the case, I am all for picking an average draft class of highly motivated young athletes that have intangibles & leadership quality. I think Billy Price is going to be a difference maker and improve team-mates level of play.

[Circleville Guy]

(04-29-2018, 04:26 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I am just going to add this: I have to trust Frank Pollack on this one. Crosby and Brown to average fans looked like the right picks but I think the Bengals changed their draft schema this draft. I think they were looking for "athletes" with high football IQ and high work ethic types. They avoided players that may have had weight issues or poor work ethic.

If this is the case, I am all for picking an average draft class of highly motivated young athletes that have intangibles & leadership quality. I think Billy Price is going to be a difference maker and improve team-mates level of play.

Just because the Bengals didn’t draft them doesn’t mean that Pollack didn’t want them, unless Pollack is now drafting for all positions. I’m guessing that a new line coach has less say than coordinators, Head Coach and GM.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-29-2018, 04:11 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: This was a lot of what I was hoping for but shit, I'm gonna let it go, because like yourself, I don't hate what we got. Then again, I could just be doing what I do every year. Falling into the hype and believing when the major obstacles still remain. I think you get what I'm sayin. 

I know exactly what you're saying bro. The Bengals have turned me into a frosted mini-wheat. 

The sweet side says "Look! We got Pollack and swapped Og and Blodine for Glenn and Price! Lazor gets to implement an entirely new offense! We have new blood for the defense with Austin and all these picks!"

Then the wheat side says "But Marv". Le sigh... 

(04-29-2018, 04:21 PM)Beaker Wrote: I am never 100% sold on any linemen other than Anthony Munoz, Willie Anderson and Whit worth. But at least we know they can stand up and play well against NFL level competition. Like I said, they did really well against first teamers on teams who HAD to have wins, and won the battles. If the coaches prefer them vs unknown commodities in draft picks from a weak O line class, then I'm good with that.

It's not an either or for me. I didn't think draft picks were surely the answer, I just wanted competition at those spots. That's probably the best we could've gotten with mid-round picks. I would've taken that competition over a project LB or a Peerman replacement. Just my opinion. I realize there's politics to running a franchise and shaping a roster, so I never "trust the coaches" on this. For all we know, Pollack wanted another tackle or guard, but he got out-voted by Marv or a different position coach.

Or maybe the board led them in a different direction. We don't know Pollack likes Redmond or Fisher just because we didn't go tackle or guard with a decent pick. Kinda hard for him to make much fuss when he already got the biggest move (Glenn) and top pick (Price).

[BURROWorBUST]

Given that the team judged none of the OTs available after the second round to be anything other than developmental guys, I understand why they laid off. They wanted players who could come in to compete to start right away.

This draft was not what I'd expected, but I rate it pretty highly. I think we got 5 or 6 guys who'll see alot of playing time. Phillips is going to really help our return game. Erickson's job is at risk.

B or B+

we

[3wt]

I'll go B.

The only things I might have changed is DT Phillips instead of Hubbard and OT Richardson instead of Walton.

I just think we had the need for an upgrade at those positions. Add the Brown pick to Phillips and I think we've addressed the major issues on the D Line.

I like the DBs we took. Bates finally gets a center firlder back there again and I like both the corners we took. I'm pretty excited about Brown. It will be nice to have another penetrator in there. It will make our options interesting in passing situations.

I'm thinking they must feel good about expected growth from Billings and Glasgow. But I would feel better if they had taken Phillips.

Still a better draft than at first blush.

[Bengalsrob]

(04-28-2018, 07:28 PM)yang Wrote: Here is PFF one of the most respected sources for the draft.  Latham loves to quote them.   They have Price the 10 rated center.   He tends to lunge at people and fall on his ass.   Stop acting like he is the next coming.  Last week on this forum NO ONE wanted him in the first round and everyone would have been okay if we got him in the second.  

Cognitive Dissonance is a powerful thing.   People are so tribal they will accept any player that jacks his girlfriend in the face with no questions.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-ranking-the-interior-ol-prospects-for-the-2018-nfl-draft

OK then,  let's take a look at PFF:

10. Billy Price, Ohio State – Center

Price is one of the rare offensive line prospects who can claim starting experience at all three interior positions. Offensive line coaches will love that, as well as the fact that he plays every snap like he’s out for blood. Price is as aggressive an offensive line prospect as there is in this draft.

Certainly NOT the 10th ranked Center in the draft, and I don't see anything about lunging and falling on his arse. They had Ragnow ranked as #2 OL, which seems a little extreme, and a LSU, Nevada, and Iowa Center ranked ONE SLOT above Price, none of which were ranked that highly by anyone else I know of. I personally am happy with "as aggressive OL prospect as there is in the draft". I guess my take is give these guys a chance, no one here knows much about anyone save the OSU draftees, and most OSU fans seem to like both of them. Nobody on here is an expert employed by the NFL that I know of, I myself thought they should have drafted a couple more OL prospects, but I too, am a Monday morning armchair coach which translates to not knowing all that much in reality. So, I'm going to give the new OL coaches a chance, and see what they can do, the last one had definitely worn out his welcome,IMHO. As for coaches not making a huge difference: see also, RAMS, Los Angeles 2017, among others. The right coach can and will make a difference, let's hope we have the right one! Whodey!

[BengalsRocker]

I'm just not sure they were looking for rookie draft picks to fill all three spots as starters. C/RG/RT

I still wouldn't rule out an experienced average RT free agent signing if they don't believe who they already have can do it.

Just dump some overpaid guys and there are your funds for it.

There's no reason why any of the others couldn't handle RG or develop to it.

If Price translates his smarts and physicality to the Center position and Pollack can continue implementing a better blocking scheme it should be sufficient to elevate O-Line play.

The party should be over for Ced O, and those underachieving currently on the roster.

Accountability should be key for their future success.

I think Lazor has already shown/spoken that he wants change.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-29-2018, 04:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Nobody forgot anything. 

1. Some people may not be 100% sold on Westerman and Redmond after a couple games.

Or maybe we have qualms about Fisher and his mediocre play + heart problems.

2. I'm not sure how weak this class really was. 

- 6 o-linemen taken in round 1.
- 10 taken in the first 39 picks. 
- 6 taken in round 2.
- 8 taken in round 3.
- 3 taken in round 4
- 5 taken in round 5
- 6 taken in round 6
- 4 taken in round 7

The Jessie Bates pick could've been used on Brian O'Neill or Brandon Parker, a pair of tackles that went a few picks later.
The Hubbard or Jefferson picks could've been Orlando Brown, Joseph Noteboom, Alex Brown or Chukwuma Okorafor.
Walton could've been Rick Leonard or Will Richardson.
Harris could've been Tyrell Crosby, Wyatt Teller or JaMarco Jones.


Obviously I'm not saying we should've went o-line all over the place, but there was some quality there. It was a little frustrating to watch Baltimore and Pittsburgh grab tackles right after we got Hubbard and Jefferson. I would've swapped Jefferson for Brown or Okorafor there. Jefferson seems like the super athletic project that never works here.

If not there, we also passed on Tyrell Crosby in the 5th. A guy CBS called a "mauler" and "a tremendous value".

Mind you, I haven't ripped this draft. Love it for the most part. I just have to ding them for not going o-line again until the very end. I think there was some quality guys available to us.

the point was not that their were tackles but were they even close to par to another position player that they were looking at.. none of those rookies have started a game in the NFL.. I will still take Fisher over those tackles mentioned to start this season.  I love the Bates picked.. I felt we needed a quality safety over a maybe tackle and that is how the Bengals saw it.. obviously time will tell if they were right.

[Joelist]

(04-29-2018, 06:52 PM)Bengalsrob Wrote: OK then,  let's take a look at PFF:

10. Billy Price, Ohio State – Center

Price is one of the rare offensive line prospects who can claim starting experience at all three interior positions. Offensive line coaches will love that, as well as the fact that he plays every snap like he’s out for blood. Price is as aggressive an offensive line prospect as there is in this draft.

Certainly NOT the 10th ranked Center in the draft, and I don't see anything about lunging and falling on his arse. They had Ragnow ranked as #2 OL, which seems a little extreme, and a LSU Center ranked ONE SLOT above Price. I personally am happy with "as aggressive OL prospect as there is in the draft". I guess my take is give these guys a chance, no one here knows much about anyone save the OSU draftees, and most OSU fans seem to like both of them. Nobody on here is an expert employed by the NFL that I know of, I myself thought they should have drafted a couple more OL prospects, but I too, am a Monday morning armchair coach which translates to not knowing all that much in reality. So, I'm going to give the new OL coaches a chance, and see what they can do, the last one had definitely worn out his welcome,IMHO. As for coaches not making a huge difference: see also, RAMS, Los Angeles 2017, among others.  The right coach can and will make a difference, let's hope we have the right one! Whodey!

The PFF rankings are laughable, and no one I know relies on them. Will Clapp the #9 ranked interior lineman (and this list is not Centers it is interior linemen)? As in 7th Round pick Will Clapp? It lists Austin Corbertt as a Center which I'm sure would amuse him as he played LT in college and the Stains drafted him to play LT. And it goes on from there. 

Whether this guy likes it or not Price even with the pec injury had a consensus first round grade and was considered the best Center in what is considered the best Center class in many years.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-29-2018, 03:42 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Are you confident with the starting RT? Who is the starting RT? If just one of the starting linemen get hurt, are you comfortable with the current depth across the line? What other area on the team is as thin? I gave the grade as a C-. I do like several of the players that they landed. It may have been a weak class for OL but they did pass on some guys that were on the board. The team did fill some holes, so did every other team. People get too emotional with a A or an F. In reality, it’s usually somewhere in the middle.

I would argue Safety.. look at the grades of our two safeties compared to our grade at RT, probably not much difference.. the point you are missing is the value of the position pick .. The picks in rounds 2 and 3 were much better value picks that are going to see playing time than tackles being taken in those rounds 

Fisher was serviceable last year till the aliment.. but he is cleared to play and trust me no way is he going to be cleared to play if their was a slight of doubt on his heart.. sure i would have prefer a tackle in rounds 2 to 4 but the value was not there from the organization eyes and are good with Fisher health

[Hammerstripes]

I give it a B.

I feel like they went safe with the first 4 picks (and I'm fine with that), but I thought the multiple CBs late in the draft were a waste. I would have taken a flier on Josh Sweat and Hurst since we had 11 picks.

I also thought not picking up Crosby or Jones later on was a little bit of a miss. Not to mention I wanted Carlson at K as well.

[BenZoo2]

I'll give this draft a b-b+. As with any draft, this grade will rise or fall in 2-3 years.

I factored in the Glenn trade into my grade. That move allowed them to address their biggest needs by keeping them in the first round.

What's keeping me from an A is not addressing the te spot. I get they may have been in a spot where anyone might have been a reach where they were drafting but it is still a need spot. Walton may be a good player but we could have secured a rb later or in free agency. Perhaps Gio won't be resigned. Would have loved to see a slight trade up for Ian Thomas.

If the bengals value Tate over Lazard so be it. They're similar type players but Lazard tested much better athletically.

I would have preferred Desmond Harrison over Taylor but again I'll defer to the team.

Same with Kyle Allen over woodside. Allen has an nfl arm, woodside seems like mccarron 2.0.

The def saw 3 new players added in f/a and draft. Lbs saw 2 added. Secondary got 3.

O line got 3 new additions. Bring on training camp.

P.s. That Browns trade still rankles me. Even just getting their 33 or 35could've got us Goedert

[Fan_in_Kettering]

A-

Selecting Billy Price was genius because on Day One he’ll automatically be the best center the Cincinnati Bengals have had since Rich Braham. Look, I’ll confess to a strong case of Buckeye Bias — I’m an OSU alum after all — but that gave me a chance to see Billy play for a few years and I’ve been hoping Cincinnati would draft him for a long time. He’s NFL ready right BLEEPing now.

Here’s where I am: Let’s trust Bill Lazor and Frank Pollack to draft who they need to fit this new offensive scheme. This is Bill Lazor’s first full year as offensive coordinator and he’s free of the Ken Zampese “stank.”

[XsandOs]

(04-29-2018, 04:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Nobody forgot anything. 

1. Some people may not be 100% sold on Westerman and Redmond after a couple games.

Or maybe we have qualms about Fisher and his mediocre play + heart problems.

2. I'm not sure how weak this class really was. 

- 6 o-linemen taken in round 1.
- 10 taken in the first 39 picks. 
- 6 taken in round 2.
- 8 taken in round 3.
- 3 taken in round 4
- 5 taken in round 5
- 6 taken in round 6
- 4 taken in round 7

The Jessie Bates pick could've been used on Brian O'Neill or Brandon Parker, a pair of tackles that went a few picks later.
The Hubbard or Jefferson picks could've been Orlando Brown, Joseph Noteboom, Alex Brown or Chukwuma Okorafor.
Walton could've been Rick Leonard or Will Richardson.
Harris could've been Tyrell Crosby, Wyatt Teller or JaMarco Jones.


Obviously I'm not saying we should've went o-line all over the place, but there was some quality there. It was a little frustrating to watch Baltimore and Pittsburgh grab tackles right after we got Hubbard and Jefferson. I would've swapped Jefferson for Brown or Okorafor there. Jefferson seems like the super athletic project that never works here.

If not there, we also passed on Tyrell Crosby in the 5th. A guy CBS called a "mauler" and "a tremendous value".

Mind you, I haven't ripped this draft. Love it for the most part. I just have to ding them for not going o-line again until the very end. I think there was some quality guys available to us.

I understand your frustration. I will add that Nelson, Whit and Zeitler should have been retained, so we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

I do feel that the Team is in win now mode, and the first 5 picks address needs immediately and will play a big part this year.

This draft was really top heavy, with 5 prospects ranked 7 or above - compared to last year, when only 1 player was ranked above 7.

But there were no can't miss OTs. The two that were selected in top 15, had no business being picked that high. There was no Orlando Pace, Joe Thomas or Walter Jones this year.

Brown has weight and motivational issues and O'Neil suffers from Ogbuehi syndrome. 

I just don't think there was a RT who could start this year. FS was a real need. You can always put a TE on the right side to help the RT, but there is no cure for a below average FS.