This is EXACTLY what I want to hear.....

[The Gooney Rule]

(04-30-2018, 08:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: False.  Just another hayer myth.  Bengals are actually one of the better teams at finding players in the 4th round or later (Atkins, Boling, Iloka, Jones, Lawson)

Since 2010 there have only been 60 players drafted in the 4th round or later who have accumulated at least 50 starts.  That works out to fewer than 2 per team on average.  The Bengals have FIVE of those players.  

Great stuff about some of our late round guys, and in case there's a counter argument, I wouldn't think it's fair to say that those guys wouldn't start for other teams - and with the exception of Iloka (whom I would still say is a top 32 safety), the others are legit starters most anywhere, with Atkins an obviously special player. 

I do have one point of clarification - did you mean Carl Lawson? ...or maybe Manny? I'm thinking Carl wouldn't have been in the league long enough to play 50 games let alone starts, and we didn't draft Manny (actually don't know what year he was drafted, or what round), and I'm not for sure, but don't think he would have made 50 starts for the Bengals (would he have started here more than 3 years?) 

If it was Carl, I guess he could potentially qualify in this metric at some point down the line, depending on if he was credited with actual starts over his career, but then also, there will be more players added to this list most likely if we project future late round picks who haven't accumulated even enough time in the league yet to get their starts.

At any rate, I agree with your general point that the Bengals are just as good if not better than most teams for finding late round starters, who actually would be starting on most teams too. 

[dnkw]

(04-30-2018, 03:08 AM)pulses Wrote: I cant find what site I saw it but it said we signed Austin Fleer OT 6'8 316 from Colorado Mesa......so who knows.

It's on here:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2018/04/28/cincinnati-bengals-2018-college-free-agent-draft-tracker/561399002/

[bengals67]

(04-30-2018, 08:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: False.  Just another hayer myth.  Bengals are actually one of the better teams at finding players in the 4th round or later (Atkins, Boling, Iloka, Jones, Lawson)

Since 2010 there have only been 60 players drafted in the 4th round or later who have accumulated at least 50 starts.  That works out to fewer than 2 per team on average.  The Bengals have FIVE of those players.  

we sure have missed out on several first round and second round picks during the same time frame.

However, I think they did a great job in this draft not just taking "the best player available" but also taking the best player based upon need.

I think everyone drafted in fifth round and higher will make the team this year. That means at least 9 new players counting Glenn and the LB from the Bills.

Price,Bates and the LB from Texas will be great additions in areas where we were sorely lacking the last few years.

I think the two fifth round CBs could become very good players

The question for the draft is not the resume of the players drafted but how the players drafted will improve the team. Based upon that standard I think the Bengals deserve an "A" this year.

[The Gooney Rule]

(04-30-2018, 10:08 AM)bengals67 Wrote: we sure have missed out on several first round and second round picks during the same time frame.

That's a great assessment, as unfortunate as it is to admit.

Somebody did post something somewhere on the boards recently- a list of Bengals roster players divided by 1st/2nd round players vs. 3rd-7th, and it was a very visually striking way of demonstrating how crucial it is to hit on your top picks if you want a talented team. 


At first glance, the names from the early rounds side jump out as the obvious stars you would want to build a team around, and of course the late rounds have their value in role players, several above average starters, special teams contributors, and depth, and yes, there are some tremendous additions like Geno and Burfict, to an extent. 

But not to go off topic too much from the OP, but if you look again at the 1's and 2's stretching back a fair number of years, I think you'll find quite a lot of delayed, unreliable, or none-as-yet contributions (and some flat out whiffs) on some selections including Dennard, Jackson, Og, Fisher, Ross, Eifert, Boyd, Hill, Hunt, Still, Simpson, Pollack, Thurman, Rivers ...maybe even Maualuga and A. Smith?...and then right or wrong, we didn't retain positive contributors like Zeitler, Gresham, Whitworth, Joseph, and now possibly Dunlap, and you start to see where the talent has been lacking, inconsistent, or left. 

(Yes, Jackson looks great now, and maybe we keep Dennard, and who knows about Ross or a final hurrah with Eifert, but bad luck with injuries on all these players have to factor in to the amount of impact they've failed to deliver early in their careers when our window was very wide open to make the ultimate run for a Super Bowl win we're all looking for.) 

And with that all being said, that list has had a decent amount of upside - the run of playoff worthy regular seasons is nothing to sniff at - but a few more hits from the top of the draft (crucial with our usual approach to free agency), and a few more strategic successes when it comes to extensions, and a fair amount of luck with injuries would have this team roaring (which I guess you could say for most teams.) 

To finish up my ramble, I'll say that I feel that the Bengals have very much improved drafts in the Marvin Lewis era, especially when compared to the lost decade, though they could use a bit more consistency and contributions from their early round selections. I do think the front office has been slower to make supplemental and complementary moves with FA and extensions (though that is showing signs of improving and becoming more consistent - we'll see what happens with Geno and Dunlap.) Coaching/scheme is where I find our team lacking compared to more consistent winners, who are able to create a system that plays to the strength of the pieces available instead of trying to fit players to a preferred style of play.

[fredtoast]

(04-30-2018, 09:39 AM)The Gooney Rule Wrote: Great stuff about some of our late round guys, and in case there's a counter argument, I wouldn't think it's fair to say that those guys wouldn't start for other teams - with the exception of Iloka (who I would say is for sure a top 64 safety), the others are legit starters most anywhere, with Atkins an obviously special player. 

I do have one point of clarification - did you mean Carl Lawson? ...or maybe Manny? I'm thinking Carl wouldn't have been in the league long enough to play 50 games let alone starts, and we didn't draft Manny (actually don't know what year he was drafted, or what round), and I'm not for sure, but don't think he would have made 50 starts for the Bengals (would he have started here more than 3 years?) 

If it was Carl, I guess he could potentially qualify in this metric, depending on if he was credited with actual starts over his career, but then also, there will be more players added to this list most likely if we project future late round picks who haven't accumulated even enough time in the league yet to get their starts.

At any rate, I agree with your general point that the Bengals are just as good if not better than most teams for finding late round starters, who actually would be starting on most teams too. 

Lawson has not been in the league long enough to have 50 starts.  I just listed him as one of our good selections from the fourth round or later.

We have also gotten guys like McCarron, Burkhead, Shaw, and Bodine.  I also think both Malone and Billings from last years draft will develop into solid NFL players.

[The Gooney Rule]

(04-30-2018, 10:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Lawson has not been in the league long enough to have 50 starts.  I just listed him as one of our good selections from the fourth round or later.

We have also gotten guys like McCarron, Burkhead, Shaw, and Bodine.  I also think both Malone and Billings from last years draft will develop into solid NFL players.

Yeah, I can see Lawson hitting that metric too if he's actually used as a 'starter'. (I think that label is a bit outdated for the way modern defenses use heavy rotation and specialists to produce a high-end product.)

And no doubt there have been other good, serviceable, and above-average players in the later rounds of the draft. But you had a good stat in highlighting the league average for starters taken in the late rounds, and even without Lawson included, the Bengals have TWICE the league average.  The organization does deserve some credit for that.

[Bengalitis]

This is utterly ridiculous, Mike Brown should decide who plays and who doesn't per Marvin's advice. That should be final.

What is this "competition" you speak of? This ain't the MISS UNIVERSE competition. Geeeeeeeeze!

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-30-2018, 08:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: False.  Just another hayer myth.  Bengals are actually one of the better teams at finding players in the 4th round or later (Atkins, Boling, Iloka, Jones, Lawson)

Since 2010 there have only been 60 players drafted in the 4th round or later who have accumulated at least 50 starts.  That works out to fewer than 2 per team on average.  The Bengals have FIVE of those players.  

First of all...what is a "hayer"?

More to the point, i'm talking about later round tackles. 4th round isn't really that late. 5-7 is where they fall short. 

Once again, just because a guy gets starts doesn't mean he's that good. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-30-2018, 08:17 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I see absolutely nothing wrong with using Professional Scouting Services. You get the same information from them as you would your own scouts, without the personal bias one way or another.... and with that information you can send your own scouts to verify. Makes perfect sense to me. And obviously we are not the only team using them, or they would not exist.

Never said there was anything wrong with them. In the Bengals case, they're a necessity because their own scouting staff is so small. 

[fredtoast]

(04-30-2018, 03:51 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: First of all...what is a "hayer"?

More to the point, i'm talking about later round tackles. 4th round isn't really that late. 5-7 is where they fall short. 

Once again, just because a guy gets starts doesn't mean he's that good. 

You can pick at nits all you want, but the fact is you have NOTHING to prove that the Bengals are worse in the late rounds than other NFL teams.

You just made that up out of thin air because it supports your negative position.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-30-2018, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can pick at nits all you want, but the fact is you have NOTHING to prove that the Bengals are worse in the late rounds than other NFL teams.

You just made that up out of thin air because it supports your negative position.

Since Marv came on board in 2003, there have been 60 pro bowlers that were drafted in rounds 5-7, from 28 different teams. That's 87.5 percent of the league. The 4 teams that have not had a single pro bowler since then are the Jets, Texans, Falcons and Bucs. Of the 28 teams with pro bowlers, 19 of them have 2 or more. That's 59.3 percent of the league, with 2 or more pro bowlers since 2003. 

Colts, Dolphins, Seahawks and Ravens lead with 4 pro bowlers in that time.
Patriots, Packers, Cowboys, Bears and Panthers  have 3 each. 
Browns, Giants, Chargers, Cardinals, 49ers, Eagles, Broncos, Titans, Saints and Chiefs all have 2. 
There are 9 teams with 1 pro bowler in that time; Bills, Lions, Steelers, Rams, Redskins, Vikings, Raiders, Jaguars and Bengals. Of those 9 teams, the Bengals are 1 of 3 that don't have a position player (punter or kicker; Bengal is Huber). 

That means out of 32 teams, the Bengals are 1 out of 7 teams that don't have a position player to make a pro bowl in drafts since 2003. Otherwise stated as, the Bengals have not done something that 78.1 percent of the league has done in that time. 

Also otherwise stated, it means they are in the 21.9 percent of the league that hasn't had a single position player selected to the pro bowl that has been drafted in the 5 round or later. 

But at least i have NOTHING to prove that the Bengals are worse than other teams in the later rounds. 

[bengalsturntup926]

Just wanted to add what I saw in this thread. I seen a article somebody shared today a interview with Redmond and it was from I think December . He said he feels he can play any position except left tackle ( I'm not sure why not left tackle for him). Also there was a bit where running back Brian hill complimented him saying he was really moving guys . Then the d line coach Burney even wanted to play him some on d line cause he's a big mean looking guy.

So maybe he is a reason why they didn't go tackle because they know they want to play Redmond and westerman in there. And when everyone was saying we need o line o line o line all off-season . I was preaching to a wall we have two capable guards now that impressed,I mean Dave lapham was singing both these guys praises at the end of the season. I'm hoping one of these guys can play right tackle, that makes the line sound more complete.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2018, 03:04 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Since Marv came on board in 2003, there have been 60 pro bowlers that were drafted in rounds 5-7, from 28 different teams. That's 87.5 percent of the league. The 4 teams that have not had a single pro bowler since then are the Jets, Texans, Falcons and Bucs. Of the 28 teams with pro bowlers, 19 of them have 2 or more. That's 59.3 percent of the league, with 2 or more pro bowlers since 2003. 

Colts, Dolphins, Seahawks and Ravens lead with 4 pro bowlers in that time.
Patriots, Packers, Cowboys, Bears and Panthers  have 3 each. 
Browns, Giants, Chargers, Cardinals, 49ers, Eagles, Broncos, Titans, Saints and Chiefs all have 2. 
There are 9 teams with 1 pro bowler in that time; Bills, Lions, Steelers, Rams, Redskins, Vikings, Raiders, Jaguars and Bengals. Of those 9 teams, the Bengals are 1 of 3 that don't have a position player (punter or kicker; Bengal is Huber). 

That means out of 32 teams, the Bengals are 1 out of 7 teams that don't have a position player to make a pro bowl in drafts since 2003. Otherwise stated as, the Bengals have not done something that 78.1 percent of the league has done in that time. 

Also otherwise stated, it means they are in the 21.9 percent of the league that hasn't had a single position player selected to the pro bowl that has been drafted in the 5 round or later. 

But at least i have NOTHING to prove that the Bengals are worse than other teams in the later rounds. 

Burfict was not selected in the first four rounds of the draft.

[yang]

(05-01-2018, 03:04 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Since Marv came on board in 2003, there have been 60 pro bowlers that were drafted in rounds 5-7, from 28 different teams. That's 87.5 percent of the league. The 4 teams that have not had a single pro bowler since then are the Jets, Texans, Falcons and Bucs. Of the 28 teams with pro bowlers, 19 of them have 2 or more. That's 59.3 percent of the league, with 2 or more pro bowlers since 2003. 

Colts, Dolphins, Seahawks and Ravens lead with 4 pro bowlers in that time.
Patriots, Packers, Cowboys, Bears and Panthers  have 3 each. 
Browns, Giants, Chargers, Cardinals, 49ers, Eagles, Broncos, Titans, Saints and Chiefs all have 2. 
There are 9 teams with 1 pro bowler in that time; Bills, Lions, Steelers, Rams, Redskins, Vikings, Raiders, Jaguars and Bengals. Of those 9 teams, the Bengals are 1 of 3 that don't have a position player (punter or kicker; Bengal is Huber). 

That means out of 32 teams, the Bengals are 1 out of 7 teams that don't have a position player to make a pro bowl in drafts since 2003. Otherwise stated as, the Bengals have not done something that 78.1 percent of the league has done in that time. 

Also otherwise stated, it means they are in the 21.9 percent of the league that hasn't had a single position player selected to the pro bowl that has been drafted in the 5 round or later. 

But at least i have NOTHING to prove that the Bengals are worse than other teams in the later rounds. 

But, but but but..... ummmm   Fake News!   "sticks fingers in ears, squints eyes, and yells lalalalalala"    Alternative Facts!    The Bengals have the best drafts every year!!   hahahaha

[yang]

(05-01-2018, 06:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Burfict was not selected in the first four rounds of the draft.

no shit.

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-01-2018, 06:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Burfict was not selected in the first four rounds of the draft.

I didn't count any UDFAs.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-29-2018, 08:02 PM)Sled21 Wrote: http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Competition-opens-on-O-line/77f1b858-3317-4263-b4a7-dacd02ddef3e


Outside of Price, Boling, and Glenn, competition to start on the oline is now open. May the best man win......

Will be interesting to see who wins out on the right side that is for sure. I think it will be Westerman and Fisher
but all i care about is the best taking the spot. Could be Redmond at RG who is a mauler and Hart at RT, who
knows? I honestly didn't know that Kent Perkins played RT against the Ravens in the last game.

Perkins could be in this conversation, he certainly has the size and run blocking ability.

[Tomkat]

T. J. Houshmandzadeh = SEVENTH ROUND PICK!

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-01-2018, 02:28 PM)Tomkat Wrote: T. J. Houshmandzadeh = SEVENTH ROUND PICK!

He was drafted before Marv got here.