The QB position

[*Nately120*]

(05-27-2018, 11:43 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: Not to mention the 49ers have negotiated into getting their next Montana QB... i wouldn't be surprised if we finally made the Super Bowl this season and the niners too, with Gialoppolo stealing the show and getting his first Super Bowl MVP and the beginning of his dynasty against a relatively veteran Bengals team.

Jimmy G should be pretty good, but the fact that people are already assuming he's going to win multiple SB titles is a bit of a stretch.  Also, I'd be thrilled if the Bengals made the SB this year, but I'd be pretty surprised if they did.  You have to realize this is a thread where people are sincerely stating that the Bengals could have a QB who made the SB 8 times under center and they'd still never make it.

Ahh, the insane divergence of a message board.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-27-2018, 04:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Never said he does. Just disagreeing with the ridiculous suggestion that Brady would be worse.

Gotcha. I'm not sure if he was saying he'd be "worse than Dalton" or just worse in general though.

Worse than Dalton, doubtful. Worse in general? Probably.

Fwiw, Brady was sacked once every 16.8 attempts last year. Dalton was sacked once every 12.7 attempts. Nevermind the pressures.

The Pats were also 10th in rushing and 12th in YPC while the Bengals were 31st and 29th respectively. Still a big difference in their lines.

(05-28-2018, 10:17 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Jimmy G should be pretty good, but the fact that people are already assuming he's going to win multiple SB titles is a bit of a stretch.  Also, I'd be thrilled if the Bengals made the SB this year, but I'd be pretty surprised if they did.  You have to realize this is a thread where people are sincerely stating that the Bengals could have a QB who made the SB 8 times under center and they'd still never make it.

Ahh, the insane divergence of a message board.

I think it all comes down to faith in the head coach. Some believe Marv will always hold the team back, while (I think) some doubt the importance of the head coach.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-27-2018, 04:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is an old and tired narrative on this board, and it’s ridiculous every time someone parrots it.

Brady’s line was not good at all last season, he was sacked 35 times ( only 4 less than Dalton), and he still took his team to the Super Bowl.

Depends on what you mean ? Would Brady be a better QB ? No doubt he's better ! And the Bengals would most likely win more games, for sure.

Would the Bengals team suddenly become the NE Patriots and win everything ? Not likely

[Brownshoe]

(05-27-2018, 04:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is an old and tired narrative on this board, and it’s ridiculous every time someone parrots it.

Brady’s line was not good at all last season, he was sacked 35 times ( only 4 less than Dalton), and he still took his team to the Super Bowl.

I wonder how well Dalton would do in NE and Brady in Cincy. I wonder what the GOAT HC would be able to do with Dalton. Considering that he's made far worse QBs look good I would think he would look like an amazing QB.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-29-2018, 01:27 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I wonder how well Dalton would do in NE and Brady in Cincy. I wonder what the GOAT HC would be able to do with Dalton. Considering that he's made far worse QBs look good I would think he would look like an amazing QB.

Idk, but it would have been interesting to see Brady have prime Chad and then AJ Green. We saw how dominant he was with Moss.

[*wildcats forever*]

(05-29-2018, 01:27 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I wonder how well Dalton would do in NE and Brady in Cincy. I wonder what the GOAT HC would be able to do with Dalton. Considering that he's made far worse QBs look good I would think he would look like an amazing QB.

Similarly I've wondered what the results would be if we traded coaching staffs with NE, but leave the rosters in place as they are?  

[BonnieBengal]

(05-29-2018, 07:58 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: Similarly I've wondered what the results would be if we traded coaching staffs with NE, but leave the rosters in place as they are?  

Ha!  Let's try it.  We'd probably win the Super Bowl.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-29-2018, 07:58 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: Similarly I've wondered what the results would be if we traded coaching staffs with NE, but leave the rosters in place as they are?  

I'd take the coaching staff switch and not even blink but to really see long tern success we'd have to trade Brown for Kraft as well !

[*wildcats forever*]

(05-29-2018, 09:36 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Ha!  Let's try it.  We'd probably win the Super Bowl.

There might be one more move to make for that to happen ....

(05-29-2018, 12:59 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'd take the coaching staff switch and not even blink but to really see long tern success we'd have to trade Brown for Kraft as well !

and this is it! I should have just suggested the entire organization minus the players 

[Brownshoe]

(05-29-2018, 04:21 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Idk, but it would have been interesting to see Brady have prime Chad and then AJ Green. We saw how dominant he was with Moss.

Well he's almost always had a really good receiving threat his whole career. He's had a hell of a cast if you look at it really. Last year he had Gronk (Best TE in the league), Cooks (was the Saints #1 for a while), Amendola (great #3 target). Those 3 right there were probably better than anything Dalton has had, or at least very close. Brady will get Edelman back too, who is a very underrated receiver. He would be a #1 on most teams.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(05-29-2018, 03:04 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Well he's almost always had a really good receiving threat his whole career. He's had a hell of a cast if you look at it really. Last year he had Gronk (Best TE in the league), Cooks (was the Saints #1 for a while), Amendola 8(great #3 target). Those 3 right there were probably better than anything Dalton has had, or at least very close. Brady will get Edelman back too, who is a very underrated receiver. He would be a #1 on most teams.

negative ghost rider.  Brady makes them great not the other way around.   Edelman a #1 ? are you kidding.  he was a practice squad player who Brady made good. 

[Brownshoe]

(05-29-2018, 05:06 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: negative ghost rider.  Brady makes them great not the other way around.   Edelman a #1 ? are you kidding.  he was a practice squad player who Brady made good. 

I'm not looking up every year, but 2016 (the last year he played) he was 4th in YAC (yards after catch) for any WR in the league. Since 2013 hes almost averaged 70 yards a game which would give him 1100 yards a season. Saying hes a practice squad player when he would easily be a #1 on a lot of teams show how much people vastly underrate the weapons the Patriots always have.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-29-2018, 03:04 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Well he's almost always had a really good receiving threat his whole career. He's had a hell of a cast if you look at it really. Last year he had Gronk (Best TE in the league), Cooks (was the Saints #1 for a while), Amendola (great #3 target). Those 3 right there were probably better than anything Dalton has had, or at least very close. Brady will get Edelman back too, who is a very underrated receiver. He would be a #1 on most teams.

Couldn’t disagree more. AJ Green/Eifert/MLJ was a far better group. And Brady has been doing more with less for the majority of his career (obviously excluding Moss & Gronk).

[Brownshoe]

(05-29-2018, 07:05 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Couldn’t disagree more. AJ Green/Eifert/MLJ was a far better group. And Brady has been doing more with less for the majority of his career (obviously excluding Moss & Gronk).

What years has he posted elite number when he hasn't had a good receiving core? He had a few years with Gronk/Hernandez too. Which has been the best TE combo in NFL history.

And Green/Eifert/Jones was better than what Brady had last year (It wasn't far though, it was actually close. Green > Cooks, Gronk > Eifert, and Jones > Amendola) Dalton did put up MVP numbers that year though.... Any other year those weapons were better than what Dalton had ever had, even 2013. and one more thing about Brady. Hes never won a SB without a great defense.

[*bfine32*]

Julian Edelman was a college QB at Kent State and a former 7th rd pick.

Wes Welker was nothing before or after Brady

Deion Branch wasted his prim by leaving NE

Brady is also the primary reason Journeymen RBS do well there.


So in short: Stop it, just stop it.

[Brownshoe]

(05-29-2018, 09:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Julian Edelman was a college QB at Kent State and a former 7th rd pick.

Wes Welker was nothing before or after Brady

Deion Branch wasted his prim by leaving NE

Brady is also the primary reason Journeymen RBS do well there.


So in short: Stop it, just stop it.

And absolutely nothing proving my point wrong... and even the Wes Welker comment was wrong because he had like 750ish yards and 10 TDs in 13 games the year after he left NE. What Edelman was in college means nothing too. A lot of the things you guys say to dispute me means nothing in the argument of Brady having weapons or not

[*bfine32*]

(05-29-2018, 09:42 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: And absolutely nothing proving my point wrong... and even the Wes Welker comment was wrong because he had like 750ish yards and 10 TDs in 13 games the year after he left NE. What Edelman was in college means nothing too. A lot of the things you guys say to dispute me means nothing in the argument of Brady having weapons or not

Marvin Jones and Mo Sanu have had better careers since leaving Cincy than they did while here. Do you have any examples of any WR leaving NE and having a better career? We can even include Welker's amazing 2013 season with Denver and Manning. 

Plenty proof has been provided. If you think Julian Edelman would easily be a #1 anywhere else then that's on you.  

[Brownshoe]

(05-29-2018, 10:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Marvin Jones and Mo Sanu have had better careers since leaving Cincy than they did while here. Do you have any examples of any WR leaving NE and having a better career? We can even include Welker's amazing 2013 season with Denver and Manning. 

Plenty proof has been provided. If you think Julian Edelman would easily be a #1 anywhere else then that's on you.  

Sanu hasn't had a better career and Jones has barely had a better ONE year with only yards due to him sharing the #1 reliever spot. Nice try on that, plus you're getting away from the point of Brady having weapons or not. Nice try though 

[*bfine32*]

(05-29-2018, 10:11 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Sanu hasn't had a better career and Jones has barely had a better ONE year with only yards due to him sharing the #1 reliever spot. Nice try on that, plus you're getting away from the point of Brady having weapons or not. Nice try though 

Sanu and Jones stats are on the internet for them to decide for themselves where they have had better careers and the fact that you point out Jones is a #1 elsewhere doesn't do much to support your opinion. No one has gotten away from the facts I have shown that WRs have done worse after Brady and the WRs have done better after Andy. I think you have gotten away for providing any proof. For example a WR that has done better after leaving NE; as you were asked to provide. 

[Brownshoe]

(05-29-2018, 10:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sanu and Jones stats are on the internet for them to decide for themselves where they have had better careers and the fact that you point out Jones is a #1 elsewhere doesn't do much to support your opinion. No one has gotten away from the facts I have shown that WRs have done worse after Brady and the WRs have done better after Andy. I think you have gotten away for providing any proof. For example a WR that has done better after leaving NE; as you were asked to provide. 

Sanu and Jones stats are on the internet aka "oh shit, he was right! I have to actually not post their stats as a rebuttal". Sanu has yet to surpass his 2014 year in ATL in yards or TDs. Jones has yet to pass his TD total in 2013, and only has had an overall better performance once, and it was last year.

I dont have to try and prove your point of Bradys receivers not having a good year away from him. That's your job for your argument. Without stats what you say holds no weight.

Now, where is your proof that Brady has done great without good weapons? I'm still waiting because you haven't listed one year for him. Now try to stay on topic. I know that you want to bring other things up to try to steer the conversation away from that.