What's the knock on Preston Brown?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-30-2018, 11:12 AM)Synric Wrote: The knock on Preston Brown is that he's solid but unspectacular.

Brown has excellent instincts that serve him well both against the run and pass. He is also very good at recognizing what the offense is doing breaking up screens and reading play action. But Brown doesnt make big plays though meaning few INTs PDs TFLs fumbles and sacks.

This. Damn good tackler and not as bad in coverage as some claim. Should be a major upgrade over what we have
been fielding out there. Don't want to bring up the Vigil thought from the OP, he needs to improve tons. The good
thing is Preston Brown has very good fundamentals that should rub off on the other guys.

Preston can move players backwards almost as good as Burfict when he hits them. Not as good but no one is.

[sandwedge]

(05-31-2018, 01:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This. Damn good tackler and not as bad in coverage as some claim. Should be a major upgrade over what we have
been fielding out there. Don't want to bring up the Vigil thought from the OP, he needs to improve tons. The good
thing is Preston Brown has very good fundamentals that should rub off on the other guys.

Preston can move players backwards almost as good as Burfict when he hits them. Not as good but no one is.

I didn't realize he was as big as he is. 250LBS, so yeah I am hoping he can lay the wood to alot of these ball carriers at the line or behind. Also amazed that he only came off the field about a dozen times last season for Buffalo. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-31-2018, 02:18 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I didn't realize he was as big as he is. 250LBS, so yeah I am hoping he can lay the wood to alot of these ball carriers at the line or behind. Also amazed that he only came off the field about a dozen times last season for Buffalo. 

Yeah he is a big Backer that is for sure. Sure should be fun watching Preston and Burfict on the field at the same
time once Burfict comes back. Haven't had a LB that tackles like Burfict before, Preston says he believes he was
BORN to tackle. Cannot wait to watch these guys tackling Steelers.

[BengalD]

(05-31-2018, 02:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah he is a big Backer that is for sure. Sure should be fun watching Preston and Burfict on the field at the same
time once Burfict comes back. Haven't had a LB that tackles like Burfict before, Preston says he believes he was
BORN to tackle. Cannot wait to watch these guys tackling Steelers.

I'm with you.  I hope he can stay healthy and Tez does not get more suspensions!

[dr tarzan]

I went back and watched the last 4 games, looking at Brown, pretty underwhelming. he's disciplined, good at sniffing out a screen....but jeez, he looks like Kevin MInterII...not a thumper for a 250 mike, gets moved out of a hole easily and dances with blockers, plays slow and gets caught up in clutter. I'm glad he's on a one year deal because I would have Evans over him in the middle all day every day....

[Joelist]

I went and checked Bills sports media to get a feel of what they thought of Brown. Basically they valued him as a player who may not make the splash plays but who has excellent smarts and diagnostic skills, plays every snap and gives you solid play all the time. He wore the radio helmet in Buffalo for a good reason and was relied on both to set the defense and sniff out the play. Which is the type of player we have BADLY needed but lacked for a while now.

Actually sounds a bit like someone else some fans did not understand the value of and of course the dumb "stats" sites miss out on but who was crucial .....Dhani Jones.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-01-2018, 12:20 AM)Joelist Wrote: I went and checked Bills sports media to get a feel of what they thought of Brown. Basically they valued him as a player who may not make the splash plays but who has excellent smarts and diagnostic skills, plays every snap and gives you solid play all the time. He wore the radio helmet in Buffalo for a good reason and was relied on both to set the defense and sniff out the play. Which is the type of player we have BADLY needed but lacked for a while now.

Actually sounds a bit like someone else some fans did not understand the value of and of course the dumb "stats" sites miss out on but who was crucial .....Dhani Jones.

Huh?? You just described Vontaze Burfict. Just see what fellow LB Nick Vigil said about Tez:

“He’s one of these guys he knows everything. He’s making calls and communicating very well so when you’re out there with him it’s a lot easier. The way he understands what the offense is going to do, he’ll call the play out before it happens just by formation. He’s an unbelievably good player.”

[CornerBlitz]

(05-30-2018, 06:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Every position is important, but in a 4-3 scheme LBs are not as important as in a 3-4.  Almost all LBs drafted in the first round are 3-4 edge rushers.  In a 4-3 you have to get your pass rush from the front four, not the LBs.

That isn't true.  There are plenty of 4-3 non edge rush LB that go in the first round. Linebackers are extremely important regardless of scheme since  TE is the new coveted position on offense. 

[Joelist]

(06-01-2018, 12:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Huh?? You just described Vontaze Burfict. Just see what fellow LB Nick Vigil said about Tez:

“He’s one of these guys he knows everything. He’s making calls and communicating very well so when you’re out there with him it’s a lot easier. The way he understands what the offense is going to do, he’ll call the play out before it happens just by formation. He’s an unbelievably good player.”

I know Burflict has usually worn the radio and such, but to be honest we have still had consistent issues in getting skunked on misdirection. Burflict may be smarter than the rest as it is true that when he is out the LBs look lost. Vigil especially has looked lost a lot and so has Vinnie Rey. Brown gives us another "QB" type LB. 

[Bilbo Saggins]

(06-01-2018, 01:08 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: That isn't true.  There are plenty of 4-3 non edge rush LB that go in the first round. Linebackers are extremely important regardless of scheme since  TE is the new coveted position on offense. 

Fred has a point here.  I don't have the numbers of first round/high first round picks by position in front of me, but I do know that having an inadequate pass rush is the worst possible deficiency for a defense to have in the modern NFL.  You could have a team with the best secondary and cover lbs in the league, but without a passable pass rush they'd get toasted.  The best 3-4 lbs in the game have more of an impact than the best 3-4 ILBs or 4-3 LBs do - just compare their salaries.  

I agree that the "TE Killer" position is getting more and more popular.  The Steelers may have spent their first round pick on a guy with hopes of getting that sort of player(check out some of his high points on his highlight reel).  Malik Jefferson projects as a possible TE killer. 

As to OP's question: hardcore Bills fans say that Brown is good, dependable, but hasn't displayed outstanding pass coverage skills in their zone heavy defense. That could be a bi-product of their defensive scheme and philosophy.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-31-2018, 01:01 PM)Joelist Wrote: Actually this was already refuted upthread. Brown is a three down LB and Buffalo used him exactly in that way. 

Actually what was said was that he played a lot of snaps and he led the team in tackles.  It sure doesn't mean he was good in coverage.  What I said is that I doubt he is our nickel backer.  Now, it is interesting to read that some thinks that Austin will use more 4-3 and less nickel, but I really would be surprised as our strength is our secondary over our front seven....at least over the linebackers.  

And I do believe the much-maligned Vigil is pretty solid at coverage, but he takes poor angles in rush defense and misses a lot of open tackles.  So, I guess take the good with the bad there.  

[dr1441]

(06-01-2018, 12:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Huh?? You just described Vontaze Burfict. Just see what fellow LB Nick Vigil said about Tez:

“He’s one of these guys he knows everything. He’s making calls and communicating very well so when you’re out there with him it’s a lot easier. The way he understands what the offense is going to do, he’ll call the play out before it happens just by formation. He’s an unbelievably good player.”

I don't want to sound like I have common sense or anything, but................isn't it better to have another guy on the team that plays with smarts at a position that it is critical at? 

Oh take it a step further you say? Burfict has played in 71 out of a total 99 games he could have played in. I know when I watched a few of those that he was missing, I was sure thinking to myself......"I wish we had someone at linebacker that didn't overrun every play or was out of position all the time." 

Call me crazy though. 

[dr1441]

(06-01-2018, 07:26 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Actually what was said was that he played a lot of snaps and he led the team in tackles.  It sure doesn't mean he was good in coverage.  What I said is that I doubt he is our nickel backer.  Now, it is interesting to read that some thinks that Austin will use more 4-3 and less nickel, but I really would be surprised as our strength is our secondary over our front seven....at least over the linebackers.  

And I do believe the much-maligned Vigil is pretty solid at coverage, but he takes poor angles in rush defense and misses a lot of open tackles.  So, I guess take the good with the bad there.  

While I do think it will be more "4-3", I think that will be a somewhat hybrid defense. If you read some of the things that Lions beat writers and fans said about losing Austin, they all talked about his hybrid defenses that he likes to use and how it caused a ton of confusion, leading to turnovers. Austin is supposedly incredible with using his secondary players and with that being our defenses biggest strength on paper, I think you're absolutely correct that he will get more defensive backs on the field most times. But sometimes that is going to hopefully mean guys like Illoka and Williams will be lined up in more of a "linebacker" role at times to get them closer to the line of scrimmage. He used James Ighabadagjo(or however you spell his name) a lot in that same facet when he was there from the readings I found. He is a big believer in guys with speed being on the field and thats why he tried to make kyle van noy a sam when he probably shouldn't have.  

It's a copy cat league and guys are looking for that guy that can take away all of these nightmare TE matchups that are all over the league now, the Deone Buchanons of the world are hard to find and everyone is looking for them now. I honestly think Illoka would be really good at it. He's built to perfectly follow TE's and would be able to jump with them as well. If we could allow him to flow naturally around the line of scrimmage, and attack on run plays because he diagnoses well, he could be a difference maker. 

[873513]

Preston Brown was so highly covered, and in demand as a premier FA LB...

He was able to leverage all of this demand and skill into a 1 year, 4 million dollar contract with a team that hasnt won a playoff game in nearly 30 years 

If teams thought he was any good, they would have pursued him and paid him. 

This is common sense.  He isnt that good. 

[fredtoast]

(06-01-2018, 10:58 AM)873513 Wrote: Preston Brown was so highly covered, and in demand as a premier FA LB...

He was able to leverage all of this demand and skill into a 1 year, 4 million dollar contract with a team that hasnt won a playoff game in nearly 30 years 

If teams thought he was any good, they would have pursued him and paid him. 

This is common sense.  He isnt that good. 

According to spotrac.com Preston Brown is the 9th highest paid 4-3 MLB in the league.

I don't think he will play every down like he did in Buffalo.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-01-2018, 12:20 AM)Joelist Wrote: I went and checked Bills sports media to get a feel of what they thought of Brown. Basically they valued him as a player who may not make the splash plays but who has excellent smarts and diagnostic skills, plays every snap and gives you solid play all the time. He wore the radio helmet in Buffalo for a good reason and was relied on both to set the defense and sniff out the play. Which is the type of player we have BADLY needed but lacked for a while now.

Actually sounds a bit like someone else some fans did not understand the value of and of course the dumb "stats" sites miss out on but who was crucial .....Dhani Jones.

And he is in his prime, only 25 years old. Younger than Dhani was when we brought him in i believe.

(06-01-2018, 01:49 AM)Joelist Wrote: I know Burflict has usually worn the radio and such, but to be honest we have still had consistent issues in getting skunked on misdirection. Burflict may be smarter than the rest as it is true that when he is out the LBs look lost. Vigil especially has looked lost a lot and so has Vinnie Rey. Brown gives us another "QB" type LB. 

That is what makes me think Vigil is not the answer at SAM, Burfict made it easier for him and he still played
very poorly there. I am thinking Malik Jefferson or Jordan Evans take the SAM position away from him.

Have to be able to shed blocks, tackle and cover at SAM. Vigil really needs to work on shedding blocks and
especially tackling. Not terrible in coverage but still, he is more of a WILL from what i have seen.

(06-01-2018, 09:45 AM)dr1441 Wrote: I don't want to sound like I have common sense or anything, but................isn't it better to have another guy on the team that plays with smarts at a position that it is critical at? 

Oh take it a step further you say? Burfict has played in 71 out of a total 99 games he could have played in. I know when I watched a few of those that he was missing, I was sure thinking to myself......"I wish we had someone at linebacker that didn't overrun every play or was out of position all the time." 

Call me crazy though. 

Yes, we needed another smart, solid, great tackling Linebacker out there. Preston Brown fits this role to a T.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-01-2018, 09:45 AM)dr1441 Wrote: I don't want to sound like I have common sense or anything, but................isn't it better to have another guy on the team that plays with smarts at a position that it is critical at? 

Oh take it a step further you say? Burfict has played in 71 out of a total 99 games he could have played in. I know when I watched a few of those that he was missing, I was sure thinking to myself......"I wish we had someone at linebacker that didn't overrun every play or was out of position all the time." 

Call me crazy though. 

Who said we couldn’t use another guy like that? I merely pointed out we haven’t been “missing that type of player for years.”

[873513]

Again, if Preston Brown was really dynamic, the Bills would not have let him walk, and the Rest of the league would have out bid a 1 yr/4 mill offer.

How is this hard to understand?

But yeah, he and Tez make a top 2 LB core.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-01-2018, 06:21 PM)873513 Wrote: Again, if Preston Brown was really dynamic, the Bills would not have let him walk, and the Rest of the league would have out bid a 1 yr/4 mill offer.

How is this hard to understand?

But yeah, he and Tez make a top 2 LB core.

By your logic no FA that changes teams is any good? He also probably liked the idea of playing for his hometown team.

[873513]

(06-01-2018, 06:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: By your logic no FA that changes teams is any good? He also probably liked the idea of playing for his hometown team.

For 4 mill/1 year .   lol.   Yeah, a really good player wouldnt leverage more