Bengals Under-rated?

[samhain]

As dismayed as I am about Marvin's return, I think the Bengals have always been an easy target for the national media. If we aren't loaded with talent and coming off an 11-win season, we're gonna be trash to everyone. That's just how it is.

I'm not so sure this is the case. All it will take is one or two things to swing our way. Would I bet a paycheck on the Bengals being great? Maybe not. Would I be completely shocked? No. They Bengals were massively underprepared and stale last year. I think they've done enough bloodletting and made enough changes to reasonably think that things might be different.

[BengalChris]

(07-17-2018, 10:03 AM)Beaker Wrote: Some think the Bengals are being overlooked:

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/07/16/bengals-nfl-most-underrated-teams/

We have had some pretty good seasons in our history when being overlooked. Here's to catching the NFL sleeping on us and having a deep playoff run.

I agree that the Bengals are underrated. Even the article underrates them as it says the team could get back to 9 wins, if not more.

For me a 9 win season would be close to a if it doesn't bring a playoff appearance.

Preferably, the team will have 12 or more wins and earn a week off come playoff time.

[grampahol]

I pay very little attention to the national media when it comes to football. Their very jobs depend on sucking up to the biggest fan bases. In many ways it's not unlike politics where local politics goes unnoticed unless someone is going to prison .
Our media choices as Bengals fans will always be limited to a handful of reporters and you either love to read their stuff or hate it. Hobson has the unenviable task of towing the company line and not really being able to rip into ownership or management without risking his job plus he's nowhere near being a local product. Personally I'd like to see him replaced by someone who grew up living and dying over the Bengals instead of someone who sometimes drones on and on about his New England roots ..  Hint to Hobson: Nobody cares! The Reds beat Boston in the '75 series . Get over it ..lol  Johnny Bench will always be better than Carlton Fisk yesterday, today and tomorrow and forever more..  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-17-2018, 12:18 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Just messing with you. I totally understand a slight bit of optimism this time with some of the changes that have been made. I just wish ol Marv wasn’t still patrolling the sidelines looking confused lol

I am not a big Marv guy, either.  He supposedly lets the coaches coach, but his one greatest weakness is clock management and knowing when to challenge.  A close second is being too damn conservative, but I hope that continues to progress with a developing offensive line and a new coach.  

I will say, however, that looking back, having Marv this season is probably a good thing to keep stability in the organization and give him one last chance to see what he can do with an offensive line. 

My hopes for Marv and the Bengals are pretty simple:

On offense, I hope they are more attacking, with a power rushing attack.  I want them to throw a 30 burger at teams, and a 40 burger at shitty teams.  Attack.  Don't play clock games, don't run in to a pile and basically offer the ball back on downs, and spread the ball around to get all of your weapons involved.

On defense, I hope they can generate pressure with their front four (the key being a solid rotation of players) and generate some big plays in the turnover department.  Blitz on occasion, and don't have it always be from a LB.  Use your safeties and CBs on blitz looks at times.  Avoid predictable packages and contest every pass in the air.  No gimmies.  

[HarleyDog]

Lot of good posts in here. Marvin probably is the biggest reason we are graded so low. Just hoping his hands were tied all this time and now has freedom to do what he wants. Culture is different this year, coaches are different, line is different, etc. they appear to want to do what it takes to win. Sucks we won’t really know till game 3/4 how well they have improved.

[Sled21]

Well, the talking heads on Sirius have already anointed the Stealers AFCN Champions again (as they do every year) and said they are the only team with a chance to go into Foxboro and beat the Patriots. I love it, just keep talking.....

[CJD]

(07-17-2018, 11:59 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There’s one name that never changed until this year...

Losing Paul Alexander will hopefully improve this team. I am optimistic. I just don't know what would make the Bengals keep him for so long (or the Cowboys from signing him so quickly) if he were truly as bad as people around here thought.

Is he just living off of the reputation he generated in the early 2000s?

[Tiger Teeth]

(07-18-2018, 09:16 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Is he just living off of the reputation he generated in the early 2000s?

Whatever the reason, I'm just glad he's gone.  Along with Bovine.  With Pollack, I'm certain we have a much better coach, and I think once we figure out the right side of the line, we won't be underrated anymore.  Better run game, and a real pocket for Andy to throw from.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-18-2018, 09:16 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Losing Paul Alexander will hopefully improve this team. I am optimistic. I just don't know what would make the Bengals keep him for so long (or the Cowboys from signing him so quickly) if he were truly as bad as people around here thought.

Is he just living off of the reputation he generated in the early 2000s?

Well, we found out several things this year about him that weren't common knowledge.  We knew he taught a passive/reactionary technique versus being the aggressor and attacking.  What we didn't know, was that he was the run game coordinator for the past several years, he also ran passive practices (see articles on him using arm pads, and Pollack having to bring in practice equipment like the chute), and was responsible for the blocking schemes.  Look at the run game numbers over the last several seasons, the abysmal draft picks recently (and then standing on a soap box and defending them until the end instead of admitting a mistake and canning them), and how bad the line looked.  Considering all of that, what do you think?

In Dallas, I highly doubt he has that kind of influence and power over the offense.  He will probably do ok in Big D because he will likely only be tasked with conducting practice, other typical position coach duties, and won't have as much input as he did here.  Plus, the line is loaded with talent.  His biggest problem here was ego, no pressure to perform from management, too much power given to a position coach, and apathy.  He never adjusted to the times, his personnel, or the competition.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-18-2018, 12:18 AM)samhain Wrote: As dismayed as I am about Marvin's return, I think the Bengals have always been an easy target for the national media.  If we aren't loaded with talent and coming off an 11-win season, we're gonna be trash to everyone.  That's just how it is.  

I'm not so sure this is the case.  All it will take is one or two things to swing our way.  Would I bet a paycheck on the Bengals being great?  Maybe not.  Would I be completely shocked?  No.  They Bengals were massively underprepared and stale last year.  I think they've done enough bloodletting and made enough changes to reasonably think that things might be different.

Nice post Sam, would definately not be shocked if we are really good in the regular season with a decent OL coach
and these new additions. Took a terrible 7 win season to finally shake things up a bit and they finally did it.

Winning in the Playoffs is honestly what would shock me with Marv still here which is sad.

Still, with a decent running game anything is possible.

(07-18-2018, 02:23 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I agree that the Bengals are underrated. Even the article underrates them as it says the team could get back to 9 wins, if not more.

For me a 9 win season would be close to a if it doesn't bring a playoff appearance.

Preferably, the team will have 12 or more wins and earn a week off come playoff time.

Yeah, a 9 win season would be a disappointment in my eyes.

(07-18-2018, 07:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am not a big Marv guy, either.  He supposedly lets the coaches coach, but his one greatest weakness is clock management and knowing when to challenge.  A close second is being too damn conservative, but I hope that continues to progress with a developing offensive line and a new coach.  

I will say, however, that looking back, having Marv this season is probably a good thing to keep stability in the organization and give him one last chance to see what he can do with an offensive line. 

My hopes for Marv and the Bengals are pretty simple:

On offense, I hope they are more attacking, with a power rushing attack.  I want them to throw a 30 burger at teams, and a 40 burger at shitty teams.  Attack.  Don't play clock games, don't run in to a pile and basically offer the ball back on downs, and spread the ball around to get all of your weapons involved.

On defense, I hope they can generate pressure with their front four (the key being a solid rotation of players) and generate some big plays in the turnover department.  Blitz on occasion, and don't have it always be from a LB.  Use your safeties and CBs on blitz looks at times.  Avoid predictable packages and contest every pass in the air.  No gimmies.  

Great post SHRacer as usual. We just need to be more aggressive all across the board.

More aggressive blocking on Offense, more aggressive playcalling, more man to man on Defense, less zone.

(07-18-2018, 09:25 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Whatever the reason, I'm just glad he's gone.  Along with Bovine.  With Pollack, I'm certain we have a much better coach, and I think once we figure out the right side of the line, we won't be underrated anymore.  Better run game, and a real pocket for Andy to throw from.  

I think until we win a Playoff game we will always be underrated.

Understandably so, have to threaten teams once we get to the Playoffs. Maybe this year some team will over look
us if we get to the Playoffs and be looking to the next game lol

(07-18-2018, 10:45 AM)Wyche Wrote: Well, we found out several things this year about him that weren't common knowledge.  We knew he taught a passive/reactionary technique versus being the aggressor and attacking.  What we didn't know, was that he was the run game coordinator for the past several years, he also ran passive practices (see articles on him using arm pads, and Pollack having to bring in practice equipment like the chute), and was responsible for the blocking schemes.  Look at the run game numbers over the last several seasons, the abysmal draft picks recently (and then standing on a soap box and defending them until the end instead of admitting a mistake and canning them), and how bad the line looked.  Considering all of that, what do you think?

In Dallas, I highly doubt he has that kind of influence and power over the offense.  He will probably do ok in Big D because he will likely only be tasked with conducting practice, other typical position coach duties, and won't have as much input as he did here.  Plus, the line is loaded with talent.  His biggest problem here was ego, no pressure to perform from management, too much power given to a position coach, and apathy.  He never adjusted to the times, his personnel, or the competition.

Yep, found out a lot of things about PA this Offseason.

He should do okay in Dallas cause he has polished players who he always did okay with here.

But if an injury happens i look for the Cowgirl fans to see the guy we saw here....

Weakness especially in the run game.

[sandwedge]

(07-18-2018, 07:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am not a big Marv guy, either.  He supposedly lets the coaches coach, but his one greatest weakness is clock management and knowing when to challenge.  A close second is being too damn conservative, but I hope that continues to progress with a developing offensive line and a new coach.  

I will say, however, that looking back, having Marv this season is probably a good thing to keep stability in the organization and give him one last chance to see what he can do with an offensive line. 

My hopes for Marv and the Bengals are pretty simple:

On offense, I hope they are more attacking, with a power rushing attack.  I want them to throw a 30 burger at teams, and a 40 burger at shitty teams.  Attack.  Don't play clock games, don't run in to a pile and basically offer the ball back on downs, and spread the ball around to get all of your weapons involved.

On defense, I hope they can generate pressure with their front four (the key being a solid rotation of players) and generate some big plays in the turnover department.  Blitz on occasion, and don't have it always be from a LB.  Use your safeties and CBs on blitz looks at times.  Avoid predictable packages and contest every pass in the air.  No gimmies.  

Pretty spot on Racer!

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-17-2018, 11:59 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There’s one name that never changed until this year...

Oh I believe there's no doubt that will have a big impact !

(07-18-2018, 07:54 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Lot of good posts in here. Marvin probably is the biggest reason we are graded so low. Just hoping his hands were tied all this time and now has freedom to do what he wants. Culture is different this year, coaches are different, line is different, etc. they appear to want to do what it takes to win. Sucks we won’t really know till game 3/4 how well they have improved.

I feel the culture has changed, question is did it change enough ?

(07-18-2018, 10:45 AM)Wyche Wrote: Well, we found out several things this year about him that weren't common knowledge.  We knew he taught a passive/reactionary technique versus being the aggressor and attacking.  What we didn't know, was that he was the run game coordinator for the past several years, he also ran passive practices (see articles on him using arm pads, and Pollack having to bring in practice equipment like the chute), and was responsible for the blocking schemes.  Look at the run game numbers over the last several seasons, the abysmal draft picks recently (and then standing on a soap box and defending them until the end instead of admitting a mistake and canning them), and how bad the line looked.  Considering all of that, what do you think?

In Dallas, I highly doubt he has that kind of influence and power over the offense.  He will probably do ok in Big D because he will likely only be tasked with conducting practice, other typical position coach duties, and won't have as much input as he did here.  Plus, the line is loaded with talent.  His biggest problem here was ego, no pressure to perform from management, too much power given to a position coach, and apathy.  He never adjusted to the times, his personnel, or the competition.

I believe the impact of PA bringing this team down was far greater than any of us even believed, and we believed A LOT !

I'll never forget that interview PA did with Dave Lapham like game 10 of 2017 about Ced. PA said words to the effect of "we don't care what you're doing, we're trying to win ballgames here". Speaking on Ogbuehi of course. BS ! It took a team full of professional coaches 10 games to figure out what we knew by game 2 or 3 ? Don't buy it, he was just saving face.

MB gave PA the asst. head coach title several years ago and it went right straight to his head. His ego was to giant to admit he missed on Ogbuehi, Bodine, and others. He wouldn't change his blocking to adapt to change. He was running amuck over everything Bengals offense because after all it was 'his plan/schemes" so they had to be good right ? 

I fully believe Lazor finally convinced Marvin to tell MB bout midway last season PA has to go, his schemes have to go, his blocking style has to go and he was all but fired there towards the end. MB is just to nice a guy to do it during the season.

Will his departure be enough change ??

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-18-2018, 01:07 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Oh I believe there's no doubt that will have a big impact !


I feel the culture has changed, question is did it change enough ?


I believe the impact of PA bringing this team down was far greater than any of us even believed, and we believed A LOT !

I'll never forget that interview PA did with Dave Lapham like game 10 of 2017 about Ced. PA said words to the effect of "we don't care what you're doing, we're trying to win ballgames here". Speaking on Ogbuehi of course. BS ! It took a team full of professional coaches 10 games to figure out what we knew by game 2 or 3 ? Don't buy it, he was just saving face.

MB gave PA the asst. head coach title several years ago and it went right straight to his head. His ego was to giant to admit he missed on Ogbuehi, Bodine, and others. He wouldn't change his blocking to adapt to change. He was running amuck over everything Bengals offense because after all it was 'his plan/schemes" so they had to be good right ? 

I fully believe Lazor finally convinced Marvin to tell MB bout midway last season PA has to go, his schemes have to go, his blocking style has to go and he was all but fired there towards the end. MB is just to nice a guy to do it during the season.

Will his departure be enough change ??

I hope it will be enough.....as for interviews, the one that got me to really believing it was time for him to go was the infamous "witch hunt" schpiel on Russell Bodine.  Dude, he was the worst rated C in the league that year!  I get that you don't throw a guy under the bus, but wouldn't it be better to say something along the lines of "Russell is learning, and is working his tail off to get better.  I think you will see him continue to improve....etc."?  He came out looking like an arrogant fool.  Then comes out a couple years later acting like a hard ass with Og.....ppppfffffttttt!!!!

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-19-2018, 08:19 AM)Wyche Wrote: I hope it will be enough.....as for interviews, the one that got me to really believing it was time for him to go was the infamous "witch hunt" schpiel on Russell Bodine.  Dude, he was the worst rated C in the league that year!  I get that you don't throw a guy under the bus, but wouldn't it be better to say something along the lines of "Russell is learning, and is working his tail off to get better.  I think you will see him continue to improve....etc."?  He came out looking like an arrogant fool.  Then comes out a couple years later acting like a hard ass with Og.....ppppfffffttttt!!!!

Oh yes that to !

I fully believe PA was a giant anchor on the O and has been for years and he had the ear of Mike Brown and was allowed to do as he saw fit.

I think we're headed in a new direction, will it be a good direction still under ML ? We'll soon see.

[bengals67]

I have no idea how we won 7 games with Bodine and our o line last year.

schedule is allegedly not as hard so we could win 9 to 10 games.

Even if we win 10 games, we will lose twice to the Steelers, not win a playoff game, and Marv will get extended.

If we win 7 or less and don't make playoffs Marv will get extended.

[TheUberHuber]

(07-17-2018, 10:03 AM)Beaker Wrote: Some think the Bengals are being overlooked:

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/07/16/bengals-nfl-most-underrated-teams/

We have had some pretty good seasons in our history when being overlooked. Here's to catching the NFL sleeping on us and having a deep playoff run.

I live on the east coast and i cant remember a time where the bengals were not being overlooked... by fans anyway.

Every year i have to explain to people that no, we are not the worst franchise in the nfl. In fact, we are one of the better ones, recently anyway. And if they are redskins fans i have fun informing them that the bengals are actually a better franchise. i generally get a very perplexed look out of people.. the "bengals are the worst franchise" koolaid is very strong where i live.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-20-2018, 01:08 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: I live on the east coast and i cant remember a time where the bengals were not being overlooked... by fans anyway.

Every year i have to explain to people that no, we are not the worst franchise in the nfl. In fact, we are one of the better ones, recently anyway. And if they are redskins fans i have fun informing them that the bengals are actually a better franchise. i generally get a very perplexed look out of people.. the "bengals are the worst franchise" koolaid is very strong where i live.

I actually know a Redskins fan here in Wyoming and we actually have good football conversations.

Everyone else is either a Steeler fan (almost everyone) or a Broncos fan who i can somewhat stomach.

[TheUberHuber]

(07-20-2018, 01:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I actually know a Redskins fan here in Wyoming and we actually have good football conversations.

Everyone else is either a Steeler fan (almost everyone) or a Broncos fan who i can somewhat stomach.

I been to Wyoming once. Kinda surprised so many steeler fans that close to denver. They literally are the worst. Although i got a food friend who played for the steelers for a year and he is super nice when we talk about football. But Outside of him, i cant stand steeler fans...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-20-2018, 01:32 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: I been to Wyoming once. Kinda surprised so many steeler fans that close to denver. They literally are the worst. Although i got a food friend who played for the steelers for a year and he is super nice when we talk about football. But Outside of him, i cant stand steeler fans...

Yep, hard to find one that is decent that is for sure. I know about 50 Steeler fans and about 5 Bronco fans.

1 Redskin fan, 1 Seahawk fan and a couple Viking fans. Being the Vikes are like my second fave team i like those guys.

[Steve]

the media is gonna beat the same old drum until we at least win a playoff game....
until that happens, they'll always play us like we're Charlie Brown & every other team is Lucy....

we win a S.B this year & that will shut them up....
& they'll stop loving on the Stealers & rat birds so much....

but it all hinges on the O-line....
they have to be above average....