The truth about our O-line situation.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-05-2018, 03:32 PM)Brimey Wrote: Absolutely. Perhaps Im still delusional, because I was hoping Fisher would emerge as a solid RT and Og as a guy who could fill in at either tackle position in a reserve capacity without sticking out like a sore thumb.

That 2015 draft in retropsret was absolutely disastrous for the franchise and would be nice if something could be salvaged

I think that Draft all but cemented PA's downfall of a coach here. Too bad we had to wait 2 seasons to see him canned.

If PA picks an O-lineman, he better be polished or there is no chance. Time after time this happened.

With Pollack, he has coached up trash in Doug Free into a good player. The ones saying he just inherited a good OL seem
to forget this. I still have some hope for Og after seeing him stand up Dunlap which is no easy task and i have even more
hope for Fisher cause i have seen him make some nice blocks in regular season games.

Perkins is a dark horse here, but Lap has been giving him praise, we will see how this plays out but it WILL be better than
last year unless the entire O-line is injured all year. Hart even made some nice blocks as of late. Surprised me.

But Pollack must of seen something in Hart.

[Nicomo Cosca]

When was this incident where Ced O stood up to Dunlap? Seen it mentioned a couple times now.

[*Go Cards*]

(08-04-2018, 05:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't have any numbers to back this up, and I honestly can't name half the starting O-linemen in the league.  But I feel we can find a couple of guys for the right side that may not be great, but they won't be the worst (hopefully).  Last year our LT had to be among the worst in the league. 

That is a big reason we were dead last in the league in total offense. 

Bodine had to be one of the worst as well. 

Am with you that it is not a done deal that the line is fixed just yet. But at least they are trying to fix it unlike last season.

Hoping Sunset is right and we are still going to bring in another OL after cut downs. 

Wanted to draft another one in first 4 rounds but a seasoned vet may be just what we need instead. 

Like you though am very glad the problems should be on thee right side instead of the blindside. 

[grampahol]

I tend to agree with your tentative skepticism about Pollock. He was let go, but the cowpokes have a HC with a huge ego and I suspect Frank was let go because of Garrett's ego more than any other reason. That alone doesn't make him the offensive lineman whisperer nor guru. He still needs good quality players, something PA now has that Pollock doesn't. This line is going to face some struggles this season whether anyone likes to admit it or not. Pollock may or may not be able to whip them all into shape ,but in no way am I  expecting a miraculous turnaround from the leagues worst to the leagues best. I think they'll be very lucky to break even and end up middle of the road. I also hope he (Pollock) proves me wrong and we end up with the Cinderella line that goes on to win championships. 

[fredtoast]

(08-05-2018, 08:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If PA picks an O-lineman, he better be polished or there is no chance. Time after time this happened.

With Pollack, he has coached up trash in Doug Free into a good player. The ones saying he just inherited a good OL seem
to forget this.

Doug Free was a 4th round pick just like Clint Boling.

[bengalguy71]

(08-06-2018, 05:49 AM)grampahol Wrote: I tend to agree with your tentative skepticism about Pollock. He was let go, but the cowpokes have a HC with a huge ego and I suspect Frank was let go because of Garrett's ego more than any other reason. That alone doesn't make him the offensive lineman whisperer nor guru. He still needs good quality players, something PA now has that Pollock doesn't. This line is going to face some struggles this season whether anyone likes to admit it or not. Pollock may or may not be able to whip them all into shape ,but in no way am I  expecting a miraculous turnaround from the leagues worst to the leagues best. I think they'll be very lucky to break even and end up middle of the road. I also hope he (Pollock) proves me wrong and we end up with the Cinderella line that goes on to win championships. 

I will never believe that Jimmy Johnson has given ANY big decisions like hiring and firing to ANYONE other than himself.

He just happened to find an HC who is willing to be his puppet, that Landry, Johnson, Switzer, Gailey, Campo, Parcells, and Phillips refused to be.

[bengals67]

excellent post here by Fred.

And I was getting all fired up to take Mixon in my fantasy league.

[WeezyBengal]

(08-04-2018, 04:32 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It will take some time no question. But there is a different mentality and it shown early and our D-line took notice
and now the D-line is responding. Not near as concerned as if we still had Piano Man around. If that were the case
i would say there is no hope. Dude couldn't coach up trash players. Pollack coached up a trash player in Doug Free
in Dallas.

Pollack being let go by Dallas was a big mistake, them bringing in PA was an even bigger one. You all will see this
once an injury happens to those dudes that were stellar under Frank Pollack.

Redmond or Westerman should be serviceable at RG.

Perkins just might make a push for RT from what i am hearing from Lap. Dude is just solid is what Lap says.

Not concerned about the left side of the line or Center. Glenn = major upgrade. Boling will be better with Glenn
and Price flanking him. Price will get down the snaps i am sure of it.

This is ten times better than last year and we won 7 games and could of won more.

Your optimism is admirable, but it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that everything is going to be OK. 

Saying this line is 10x better than it was last year is just something I cant get behind. We haven't even seen Price play a game yet but you are saying hes an upgrade? You say Boling will be better because of the guys "flanking him"? You are saying Redmond and Westerman should be serviceable? 

All of this based on what, exactly? Fred made an excellent post and I agree with it 100%. 

At this point its wait and see. Its foolish to sit here and think this line is going to be better just because we drafted and added some players that we know nothing about.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-04-2018, 03:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We came into this offseason with exactly ONE proven starter on our O-line (Boling).  We didn't need to patch up a weak O-line.  We needed to completely rebuild one of the worst O-lines in team history.  We had 4 holes to fill.

Glen was a great move.

Price looks like a good move, but no rookie is a sure thing.  Ogbuehi and Price were both taken with the 21st pick. I am not ripping Price.  I loved the pick.  But no rookie is a sure thing.

Even if Price works out (which I think he will) that still leaves 2 holes or 40% of the O-line with big question marks.

Redmon and Westerman look to have some potential, but combined they played less than 200 snaps last year.  But remember these....

Last two games of the '07 season rookie Chinedum Ndukwe has 2 ints against the Browns and a long fumble return for a td against the Dolphins.  bengals win both of those games to finish 7-9 (sound familiar?) and Chinny is a darling of the fanbase.  They see him as a key to the defense.  Instead he plays more like the 7th rounder he was while starting for a couple of more seasons.

How about when Vinny Rey played two great games back to back in 2013 against the Ravens and Browns where he had 27 tackles 3 sacks and an interception?  Everybody was crying about how Marvin was keeping another superstar on the bench.

In 2015 Shawn Williams made a couple of big fourth quarter interceptions against the Steelers and Forty-Niners.  Fans were thrilled by his potential.  He was "clutch".  He was a "playmaker".

So I am still a bit skeptical of Redmon and Westerman.

I gave Fisher a break after his first season because they moved him around so much.  But last year was his third, and he never did a lot to impress me.

Ogbuehi is what he is.  I have seen players make huge gains after their first and second seasons, but Cedric has also had three seasons.

Hart is a scrub.

If Trey Hopkins is healthy he is possibly the best O-lineman after Glenn, Boling, and Price.

And finally, Pollack may be a good coach, but he is not some hot shot who just got promoted to O-line coach.  He was actually let go by his previouys employer.  So while he may be good, he is not some guru with a flawless record.  Too many people around here are treating him like some kind of legend.

I believe our O-line will definitely be better with the addition of Glenn and Price, but we still have 40% of the line to replace.  If we can't shore up those two positions it will be another long season even with the upgrades.

I agree and I think fans 100% expecting a playoff berth are too optimistic. I think it could happen, but I don't have any confidence this OL would be good enough to get that elusive first playoff win in the ML era. Personally, I think RT is going to be the weakest part of the OL and none of Ogbuehi, Fisher, or Hart will be worth keeping after this season. I have confidence most in Westerman for RG but that goes back to what I saw and researched when he entered the draft. He and the rest of the RG candidates still need to become solid, dependable guys in the NFL before I feel comfortable not getting a new RG next offseason. 

I think the most important thing for this upcoming season is that a lot of the young guys (on offense especially) really come along by the end of this year and that the team can make a legit push next year. That's my expectation anyway.

[WeezyBengal]

(08-06-2018, 12:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I agree and I think fans 100% expecting a playoff berth are too optimistic. I think it could happen, but I don't have any confidence this OL would be good enough to get that elusive first playoff win in the ML era. Personally, I think RT is going to be the weakest part of the OL and none of Ogbuehi, Fisher, or Hart will be worth keeping after this season. I have confidence most in Westerman for RG but that goes back to what I saw and researched when he entered the draft. He and the rest of the RG candidates still need to become solid, dependable guys in the NFL before I feel comfortable not getting a new RG next offseason. 

I think the most important thing for this upcoming season is that a lot of the young guys (on offense especially) really come along by the end of this year and that the team can make a legit push next year. That's my expectation anyway.

Agree. I think this team will win 7-9 games and maybe make the playoffs as a wild card team. The AFC is piss poor. 

[Shake n Blake]

All truth. I think people (myself included) have been so excited about Pollack, Glenn and Price that we've been willing to overlook that the line was really only half addressed. I haven't wanted to rain on anyone's parade, but I've been having a sneaking feeling we're in for a disappointing season. The snap issues could wind up amounting to nothing, but I've finally allowed myself to ponder the possibility of Price being a bust. It could happen...and if this line is going to be much better, we desperately need Price to be a hit.

I think the left side of our line will look great with Glenn/Boling - barring injury, but the right side is worse on paper without Andre 3000 lbs around. I'd keep an eye out for veteran cuts or possible trades. That said, when you're relying on THAT for an upgrade, you're probably in sorry shape.

[Bengalitis]

A bit random, but thought I throw this out there... T.O. Saying "Thank you, this is for you." to WHO-DEY nation (yes you!) during his HOF speech. (It's only a 16 second snippet).

http://www.nfl.com/videos/buffalo-bills/0ap3000000944861/Terrell-Owens-to-a-fan-I-love-you-but-I-love-me-more

[Joelist]

I’m looking at how Price is doing on the other parts of being a Center outside the snap, and there he is doing well. He’s blocking the right guy, holding the point et al. He’ss get the snapping down.

My guess right now is once Westerman returns and gets back up to speed he’ll be the RG and ultimately Fisher will win the RT job.

[Luvnit2]

(08-05-2018, 09:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: When was this incident where Ced O stood up to Dunlap? Seen it mentioned a couple times now.

I believe it is in the training camp update thread Raw Deal started and early in the thread.

[depthchart]

(08-06-2018, 12:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: All truth. I think people (myself included) have been so excited about Pollack, Glenn and Price that we've been willing to overlook that the line was really only half addressed. I haven't wanted to rain on anyone's parade, but I've been having a sneaking feeling we're in for a disappointing season. The snap issues could wind up amounting to nothing, but I've finally allowed myself to ponder the possibility of Price being a bust. It could happen...and if this line is going to be much better, we desperately need Price to be a hit.

I think the left side of our line will look great with Glenn/Boling - barring injury, but the right side is worse on paper without Andre 3000 lbs around. I'd keep an eye out for veteran cuts or possible trades. That said, when you're relying on THAT for an upgrade, you're probably in sorry shape.

IF Glenn, Boling and Price can seal up Dalton's left side and middle, that should definitely point the arrow upward.

Instead of getting pressured from all sides, Dalton would be able to TRUST that his left side and middle will be protected in most cases. This would allow him to focus more on recognizing right side pressures.

Frank Pollack was able to rely on Ezekiel Elliott's pass blocking abilities in Dallas and may influence the use of our running backs to help block and chip to help out the right side of our O-line.

All of this should add some extra half seconds on plays for Dalton this season hopefully leading to more success.

Jake Fisher & company stepping up on the right side and we are in business.

We still improve with a solid left side and middle but mediocrity on the right side may put a ceiling of ultimate disappointment on this season.

If that happens, I will want a Glenn/Price styled 2019 Draft/Trade off season to fix the right side of the O-line to match the talent level on the left side. 

[fredtoast]

(08-06-2018, 01:08 PM)depthchart Wrote: Frank Pollack was able to rely on Ezekiel Elliott's pass blocking abilities in Dallas and may influence the use of our running backs to help block and chip to help out the right side of our O-line.

And the reason Pollack lost his job was poor pass blocking.

I don't want to rip on Pollack.  He is a Bengal coach and I hope he does well.  But he is not the miracle worker some people have built him up to be.  They act like we should re-sign Devon Still so that Frank can heal his daughter.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-06-2018, 10:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Doug Free was a 4th round pick just like Clint Boling.

Ogbuehi was a 1st rounder...

(08-06-2018, 12:11 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Your optimism is admirable, but it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that everything is going to be OK. 

Saying this line is 10x better than it was last year is just something I cant get behind. We haven't even seen Price play a game yet but you are saying hes an upgrade? You say Boling will be better because of the guys "flanking him"? You are saying Redmond and Westerman should be serviceable? 

All of this based on what, exactly? Fred made an excellent post and I agree with it 100%. 

At this point its wait and see. Its foolish to sit here and think this line is going to be better just because we drafted and added some players that we know nothing about.

I cannot get behind saying Russell Bodine and Cedric Ogbuehi are better than Billy Price and Cordy Glenn...

Come on Weezy.

[fredtoast]

(08-06-2018, 03:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Ogbuehi was a 1st rounder...

So were Levi Jones, Willie Anderson, and Kevin Zeitler.

[WeezyBengal]

(08-06-2018, 03:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Ogbuehi was a 1st rounder...


I cannot get behind saying Russell Bodine and Cedric Ogbuehi are better than Billy Price and Cordy Glenn...

Come on Weezy.

You and I have no idea if Billy Price is better than Russel Bodine. You said it yourself, Ced was a first rounder and he is AWFUL. Why should we be so sure that Billy Price is going to be better than Bodine?

The only certainty with this O Line is that Cordy Glenn is better than Ced. 

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(08-06-2018, 05:01 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You and I have no idea if Billy Price is better than Russel Bodine. You said it yourself, Ced was a first rounder and he is AWFUL. Why should we be so sure that Billy Price is going to be better than Bodine?

The only certainty with this O Line is that Cordy Glenn is better than Ced. 

Bodine was the worst centre in league so Price cannot be worse