Did the Bengals get hoodwinked in New England?

[samhain]

With all of the speculation and reports coming out today concerning possible cheating beyond just Spygate by the Patriots, it made me recall our team's last two visits to Foxboro.

Basically, they got murdered both times. The first score (season opener 2010) was 38-24, and was comprised of many disasters such as a Palmer pick 6 and a Brandon Tate kickoff return TD before that was a good thing. The team looked helpless vs the New England offense. Welker scored a couple of times and both NE tight ends were factors.

From jump, this loss could very easily be dismissed as a much better team housing a very bad team (which the Bengals undoubtedly were in 2010) in their building.

Then we have last season. I believe the Bengals lost 42-17. Bengals weren't nearly as bad a team. In fact, they were on quite a roll leading up to that game. Some called them the best team in football up to that point. New England, on the other hand was coming off of an embarrassing loss in KC. The pundits were giving eulogies for the careers of Brady and Bellichick leading up to that game. Good call on that one.

This game was just an embarrassment. No tackling, the defense couldn't get lined up (despite all of the awesome "leadership" guys we have collecting paychecks), and the New England offense always seemed to run the right play at the right time. The offense couldn't get it going either, despite a relatively mistake-free game by Dalton.

Could these games have been the result of possibly locker-room bugging or play-sheet theft by NE? Was there extracirricular gamesmanship that was less apparent to the casual observer? I'll also submit that the Bengals actually beat NE in the game between these two disasters, back in 2013. That game was in Cincinnati. The Pats gave them a game, but hardly looked like pros playing against a bunch of high schoolers as they have in the two Foxboro tilts.

An SI report came out today that says at least 19 teams take precautions against sabotage when visiting Foxboro. Anyone think we're one of those teams? Do the players on this team just piss themselves with fear at they idea of playing in NE or are they just that much worse of a team? Both possible, but IMO, I think the cheating advantage is worth discussing in our case.

[Luvnit2]

(09-08-2015, 03:37 PM)samhain Wrote: With all of the speculation and reports coming out today concerning possible cheating beyond just Spygate by the Patriots, it made me recall our team's last two visits to Foxboro.  

Basically, they got murdered both times.  The first score (season opener 2010) was 38-24, and was comprised of many disasters such as a Palmer pick 6 and a Brandon Tate kickoff return TD before that was a good thing.  The team looked helpless vs the New England offense.  Welker scored a couple of times and both NE tight ends were factors.  

From jump, this loss could very easily be dismissed as a much better team housing a very bad team (which the Bengals undoubtedly were in 2010) in their building.  

Then we have last season.  I believe the Bengals lost 42-17.  Bengals weren't nearly as bad a team.  In fact, they were on quite a roll leading up to that game.  Some called them the best team in football up to that point.  New England, on the other hand was coming off of an embarrassing loss in KC.  The pundits were giving eulogies for the careers of Brady and Bellichick leading up to that game.  Good call on that one.  

This game was just an embarrassment.  No tackling, the defense couldn't get lined up (despite all of the awesome "leadership" guys we have collecting paychecks), and the New England offense always seemed to run the right play at the right time.  The offense couldn't get it going either, despite a relatively mistake-free game by Dalton.  

Could these games have been the result of possibly locker-room bugging or play-sheet theft by NE?  Was there extracirricular gamesmanship that was less apparent to the casual observer?  I'll also submit that the Bengals actually beat NE in the game between these two disasters, back in 2013.  That game was in Cincinnati.  The Pats gave them a game, but hardly looked like pros playing against a bunch of high schoolers as they have in the two Foxboro tilts.  

An SI report came out today that says at least 19 teams take precautions against sabotage when visiting Foxboro.  Anyone think we're one of those teams?  Do the players on this team just piss themselves with fear at they idea of playing in NE or are they just that much worse of a team?  Both possible, but IMO, I think the cheating advantage is worth discussing in our case.

I thought we never matched their emotion and cheating would not account for a 25 point loss.

You said it, we could not get lined up correctly, did not block and did not tackle. That is why we lost that game.

[Okeana]

We have also murdered them before.

This comes down to the fact we both have good teams and sometimes they just play better. I understand there is always speculation involved with the patriots, but if they are doing something more than likely other teams are as well. This is a business and while we would hope that everyone in the league is ethical I assure you that when money is involved most people aren't. Regardless it's our team's responsibility to win games and its a simple as that.

[BURROWorBUST]

(09-08-2015, 03:39 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I thought we never matched their emotion and cheating would not account for a 25 point loss.

You said it, we could not get lined up correctly, did not block and did not tackle. That is why we lost that game.

This ^

We should have beaten them like we did Denver, but we didn't show up. That's the problem with this team, I think. There are just games where we don't come to play. We just go through the motions without any fire in our bellies. I have no idea how to explain that. Somebody said in the "questionnaire" that Marvin was not good at motivating a team. I don't see why a HC has to motivate professional players, especially in the playoffs. That's where I just draw a blank. I don't know WHY it happens; I just know that it DOES. 

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(09-08-2015, 03:37 PM)samhain Wrote: With all of the speculation and reports coming out today concerning possible cheating beyond just Spygate by the Patriots, it made me recall our team's last two visits to Foxboro.  

Basically, they got murdered both times.  The first score (season opener 2010) was 38-24, and was comprised of many disasters such as a Palmer pick 6 and a Brandon Tate kickoff return TD before that was a good thing.  The team looked helpless vs the New England offense.  Welker scored a couple of times and both NE tight ends were factors.  

From jump, this loss could very easily be dismissed as a much better team housing a very bad team (which the Bengals undoubtedly were in 2010) in their building.  

Then we have last season.  I believe the Bengals lost 42-17.  Bengals weren't nearly as bad a team.  In fact, they were on quite a roll leading up to that game.  Some called them the best team in football up to that point.  New England, on the other hand was coming off of an embarrassing loss in KC.  The pundits were giving eulogies for the careers of Brady and Bellichick leading up to that game.  Good call on that one.  

This game was just an embarrassment.  No tackling, the defense couldn't get lined up (despite all of the awesome "leadership" guys we have collecting paychecks), and the New England offense always seemed to run the right play at the right time.  The offense couldn't get it going either, despite a relatively mistake-free game by Dalton.  

Could these games have been the result of possibly locker-room bugging or play-sheet theft by NE?  Was there extracirricular gamesmanship that was less apparent to the casual observer?  I'll also submit that the Bengals actually beat NE in the game between these two disasters, back in 2013.  That game was in Cincinnati.  The Pats gave them a game, but hardly looked like pros playing against a bunch of high schoolers as they have in the two Foxboro tilts.  

An SI report came out today that says at least 19 teams take precautions against sabotage when visiting Foxboro.  Anyone think we're one of those teams?  Do the players on this team just piss themselves with fear at they idea of playing in NE or are they just that much worse of a team?  Both possible, but IMO, I think the cheating advantage is worth discussing in our case.

Every team cheats a bit.  You never really know just how much of a bit until one gets caught.  I doubt that any cheating that they could have done would have given them a 42-17 advantage though.

[GreenCornBengal]

No, but I do think they put out a gameplan that works against Hue Jacksons offense. They certainly exposed what we were doing and how to solve the problem. I'm not sure If Hue ever figured that out.

IMO the Colts game was more peculiar. You want to talk about teams knowing EXACTLY where the play was going, that was the Colts in the regular season. I'm convinced there was SOME foul play in that game. I have NEVER felt this way while watching a game, even in the New England game I didn't feel we were being cheated. The regular season Colts game though... something still irks me about that game.

[Aquapod770]

No.















Dear god can it be Thursday already :snark:

[samhain]

(09-08-2015, 04:01 PM)Okeana Wrote: We have also murdered them before.

This comes down to the fact we both have good teams and sometimes they just play better.  I understand there is always speculation involved with the patriots, but if they are doing something more than likely other teams are as well.  This is a business and while we would hope that everyone in the league is ethical I assure you that when money is involved most people aren't.  Regardless it's our team's responsibility to win games and its a simple as that.

When exactly have we "murdered" them in the Bellichick era?  I remember getting smashed twice at PBS, once in a late afternoon game in like 06 and another time on MNF in 07 or 08.  We beat them 23-17 in 2001 and won a squeaker in 2013 at PBS when a torrential downpour arrived just in time for Brady's closing drive.  Show me one Bengal victory over the Pats that could be classified as a sound beating.  i certainly don't recall a single one.  Certainly not in Foxboro.

[Joelist]

Take the ESPN report with a big grain of salt. Lest we forget that they have had to do retractions due to inaccurate reports multiple times, including on this very topic and involving the Patriots. Plus no report has even suggested the spying went on after Spygate came out.

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-08-2015, 04:34 PM)samhain Wrote: When exactly have we "murdered" them in the Bellichick era?  I remember getting smashed twice at PBS, once in a late afternoon game in like 06 and another time on MNF in 07 or 08.  We beat them 23-17 in 2001 and won a squeaker in 2013 at PBS when a torrential downpour arrived just in time for Brady's closing drive.  Show me one Bengal victory over the Pats that could be classified as a sound beating.  i certainly don't recall a single one.  Certainly not in Foxboro.

I thought the exact same thing.  Going back to the game last year, the Bengals just got out coached and out played.  I remember there were times that Brady had the ball in his hands and our guys were still trying to line up.

[Brownshoe]

(09-08-2015, 04:41 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I thought the exact same thing.  Going back to the game last year, the Bengals just got out coached and out played.  I remember there were times that Brady had the ball in his hands and our guys were still trying to line up.

We did better than what it actually looked on paper. The receivers that game were horrible. We had 3 different receivers fumble the ball, and Gresham dropped a easy catch in the end zone. I would say the biggest problem of that game was our weapons played horrible, and the defense playing horrible against the run.

[GreenCornBengal]

(09-08-2015, 04:54 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: We did better than what it actually looked on paper. The receivers that game were horrible. We had 3 different receivers fumble the ball, and Gresham dropped a easy catch in the end zone. I would say the biggest problem of that game was our weapons played horrible, and the defense playing horrible against the run.

It's funny. AJ and Andy probably looked their best in the NE game IMO. Dalton looked like a stud that day.

[yellowxdiscipline]

I would go ahead and assume that every game prior to the Spygate outing the Pats cheated on. So if they beat us its safe to say they probably cheated. However we weren't very competitive prior to Spygate so they might not have needed to cheat to beat us.

[XenoMorph]

(09-08-2015, 03:39 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I thought we never matched their emotion and cheating would not account for a 25 point loss.

You said it, we could not get lined up correctly, did not block and did not tackle. That is why we lost that game.

we were right there thru the 1st half of the game. The Receivers just kept fumbling away any chance we had... And even the Gresham Missed that easy TD.

And that was the first game with no starting linebackers available and lumar stuggled to keep it under control and the defense just died.

Not sure they would have needed to cheat.

[XenoMorph]

(09-08-2015, 05:02 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: It's funny. AJ and Andy probably looked their best in the NE game IMO. Dalton looked like a stud that day.

AJ was one of the fumbles that day.

[GreenCornBengal]

(09-08-2015, 06:05 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: AJ was one of the fumbles that day.

Sorry I was mixing up the NE game and the Pitt game. Both games Dalton looked like the QB I want him to be. Pitt game was the day BOTH looked good.

[Shake n Blake]

It seems popular to defend the Pats these days, but I believe where there's smoke, there's fire. 19+ teams took extreme measures to safeguard against the Pats stealing their signals (either by film, stealing play sheets or bugging)? If that many teams are THAT concerned, there must be good reason for it.

I'm sure the Pats aren't the only team doing it, but they're probably the only one's doing it to that level. Otherwise, the rest of the NFL wouldn't treating the Pats this way. They'd just be treated like any other team. Clearly, that's not the case.

All that said, Spygate only covered from 2001-2007. Anything beyond that is speculation.

[McC]

(09-08-2015, 06:04 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: we were right there thru the 1st half of the game.  The Receivers just kept fumbling away any chance we had... And even the Gresham Missed that easy TD.

And that was the first game with no starting linebackers available and lumar stuggled to keep it under control and the defense just died.

Not sure they would have needed to cheat.

Wasn't there one goal line play where the Pats just ran up to the LOS and snapped the ball before the defense was ready?   They just killed us with the no huddle.

[*Awful Llama*]

(09-08-2015, 04:22 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: No.

Yeah, gotta agree with this. Just an old-fashioned, Bellicheck/Brady beatdown.

And, if they could cheat to that wide a winning margin, then either we were the '66 Packers or they must have left their bag-o-tricks at home when they played here in the Monsoon Bowl.

[jfkbengals]

I'm pretty sure we are one of those 19 teams.

Marvin has made comments multiple times that it is a guarantee there will be problems with the communications systems in NE when on offense.

He's also criticized the league/officials for not enforcing the rules properly by failing to shut down the Pats system during the outage, while admitting that not having the system on defense is not a disadvantage.