Elephant in the room - run game

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-27-2018, 01:41 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I would start Westerman at RG  like others stated and if he is not the answer, then they better go after some player cut from another team.

For sure but i think Westerman can be the answer if he is healthy.

His game reminds me of Zeitler, not the best run blocker but a phenominal pass blocker.

(08-27-2018, 01:44 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Did I see or hear Westerman got injured yesterday?

I hadn't heard that, hope he is alright, gonna need him.

(08-27-2018, 02:11 PM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Not that they ran it that much better against Chicago or Dallas but I think the one thing buffalo has going for it is its damn near impossible to run on em.

That run game will get going in the regular season for sure.  Too many weapons spreading defenses thin, we'll start gashing teams soon enough.

Also I would imagine it takes a little more time for a group of linemen who haven't worked together as a unit much to develop chemistry in the run game.  There's enough talent there now is the main thing.  They'll get it going.

All the Defenses we have faced in Preseason were good against the run last season true.

This has to be taken into account.

Thought it would take some time anyways, just happy the pass protection is muchly improved.

[TheBengalsMind]

I can't lie, it's definitely a concern.

But there are ways around it.

We had the same problem back in 1975 when we went 11-3.

We couldn't run the ball, but we had a good and very solid pass blocking O-Line that could move.

We ended up with 1,817 rushing yards, 17th out of 26 teams. We averaged an almost league worst 3.6 yards a carry (24th in the league).

But they were just good enough to punch the ball in the endzone and keep drives alive in 3rd and short situations, thanks in large part to Bobbie Clark.

We had the number 1 passing attack that year with Kenny Anderson and that's what it'll take if we plan on being that bad at running the ball this year.

Pass to Mixon and Bernard out of the backfield, keep the toughest RB as your 3rd on the depth chart for short yardage situations.

I think we're better than we were in 1975 though at running.

[Sled21]

(08-27-2018, 02:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I hadn't heard that, hope he is alright, gonna need him.

Yes, they took him to the locker room evidently with a back injury. No word on outcome...

[fredtoast]

In '81 we were 17th of 28 teams in both rushing yards and yards per carry.

[Millhouse]

I don't think there will a big improvement numbers wise in the run game, even with Pollack. If there is improvement, it will be because the passing game will force defenses to fall back out of respect, then taking advantage of that.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-27-2018, 03:51 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I don't think there will a big improvement numbers wise in the run game, even with Pollack. If there is improvement, it will be because the passing game will force defenses to fall back out of respect, then taking advantage of that.

Don't write off running the ball for the season, just yet.  Olines take time to develop that cohesiveness that makes them function well as a unit.  I would just about promise that once we put the same 5 out there, week after week, for the entire game, they will start coming together.  If they're still struggling to open holes after 4-6 games?  Then we might want to panic.

[RASCAL]

(08-27-2018, 04:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Don't write off running the ball for the season, just yet.  Olines take time to develop that cohesiveness that makes them function well as a unit.  I would just about promise that once we put the same 5 out there, week after week, for the entire game, they will start coming together.  If they're still struggling to open holes after 4-6 games?  Then we might want to panic.

I'm not writing off our run game, but I have NOT seen much improvement the last 3 pre games or for that matter last year!! We need to get it together quickly!!!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-27-2018, 04:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Don't write off running the ball for the season, just yet.  Olines take time to develop that cohesiveness that makes them function well as a unit.  I would just about promise that once we put the same 5 out there, week after week, for the entire game, they will start coming together.  If they're still struggling to open holes after 4-6 games?  Then we might want to panic.

Spot on.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-27-2018, 04:21 PM)RASCAL Wrote: I'm not writing off our run game, but I have NOT seen much improvement the last 3 pre games or for that matter last year!! We need to get it together quickly!!!

Buffalo is really good at stopping the run, really good last season.

I think going against the Colts Defense will be much easier for us to run on.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-27-2018, 04:21 PM)RASCAL Wrote: I'm not writing off our run game, but I have NOT seen much improvement the last 3 pre games or for that matter last year!! We need to get it together quickly!!!

Results aren't always instantaneous.  We've got essentially 4 new bodies on a unit of 5.  It takes time to get consistent, to learn the nuances of executing specific blocks on specific plays, working in concert together.  This isn't an excuse, but the defenses they have been lining up against, aren't exactly known for giving up a lot of yards on the ground.  I'd call that some of the best training they can get, at this point.


I too, get impatient.  Sometimes I just have to relax and look at the big picture.  

[Millhouse]

(08-27-2018, 04:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Don't write off running the ball for the season, just yet.  Olines take time to develop that cohesiveness that makes them function well as a unit.  I would just about promise that once we put the same 5 out there, week after week, for the entire game, they will start coming together.  If they're still struggling to open holes after 4-6 games?  Then we might want to panic.

Im not writing it off, I just don't see run blocking being a strength this year. However it definitely should be better than it was last year to compliment the passing game, which I do think will be the strength of the offense.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-27-2018, 04:53 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Im not writing it off, I just don't see run blocking being a strength this year. However it definitely should be better than it was last year to compliment the passing game, which I do think will be the strength of the offense.

Agreed, it would be pointless to try and pound the rock 30X/game, at this point in time.  However, as you and others have suggested, selectively calling runs and using passes to the backs like extended hand offs, should at least keep defenses honest as the OL gets it's legs under it.

Once those guys get a couple hundred game reps together, they ought to be able to execute a trap play.  Right now it's kind of difficult to orchestrate.  Guys have only been playing next to one another for a short time.  They need to get that feel for how the man next to him times his pulls, executes a cut block, doubles down on an ISO, etc.  It'll come together, it's just not right now.  Even plays that look so simple on TV, like draws and screens take discipline and orchestrated execution to perfect.

[SYLVIA]

Westerman is fine, he will play thur. night.

[GreenCornBengal]

Marvin eluded to the fact that many of the successful pass plays were called run plays. AKA, your veteran QB is noticing the stacked box and making them pay. I wouldn't worry too much about it unless it happens for an entire 4 quarters.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-27-2018, 07:37 PM)SYLVIA Wrote: Westerman is fine, he will play thur. night.

Thanks Sylvia.

[BengalChris]

(08-26-2018, 10:11 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: We had a total of 68 yards on 27 carries in the game for a 2.5 YPC average. But in the first half our starters had like 10 yards on 9 carries or something against the Bills 1st string.

I'm very concerned to put it mildly ! I don't pretend to have an answer but there's no way we're going to have a successful season averaging 2 yards a carry or something. Like Shake said in the game day thread we can survive with an ok run game but we're gonna get killed with a crappy one.

And right now we stink !

i saw the same thing and have the same concerns. There was little push at the line of scrimmage and defenders in the back field on most running plays. i wasn't sure if the offense was telegraphing the run plays.

But whatever the cause, the run blocking needs to improve. You have to be able to run the ball to win consistently and in big games.

[Fullrock]

I'm not all that concerned about the run game yet. There is no game planning in the preseason. When defenses start game planning on how you stop the passing game with AJ, Boyd, Ross, Eifert, and our backs who are excellent in the passing game, I think we will see a completely different ability to run the football. Not to mention, game planning to use some of the strengths of the O-line that includes pull and trap plays.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-27-2018, 06:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Agreed, it would be pointless to try and pound the rock 30X/game, at this point in time.  However, as you and others have suggested, selectively calling runs and using passes to the backs like extended hand offs, should at least keep defenses honest as the OL gets it's legs under it.

Once those guys get a couple hundred game reps together, they ought to be able to execute a trap play.  Right now it's kind of difficult to orchestrate.  Guys have only been playing next to one another for a short time.  They need to get that feel for how the man next to him times his pulls, executes a cut block, doubles down on an ISO, etc.  It'll come together, it's just not right now.  Even plays that look so simple on TV, like draws and screens take discipline and orchestrated execution to perfect.

(08-27-2018, 07:48 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Marvin eluded to the fact that many of the successful pass plays were called run plays. AKA, your veteran QB is noticing the stacked box and making them pay. I wouldn't worry too much about it unless it happens for an entire 4 quarters.

(08-28-2018, 08:40 AM)Fullrock Wrote: I'm not all that concerned about the run game yet. There is no game planning in the preseason. When defenses start game planning on how you stop the passing game with AJ, Boyd, Ross, Eifert, and our backs who are excellent in the passing game, I think we will see a completely different ability to run the football. Not to mention, game planning to use some of the strengths of the O-line that includes pull and trap plays.

I hope you guys are right  :andy:

I think our defense is gonna be a good one at least upper half, perhaps even upper third ? I think they'll keep us in most games. But when it starts getting down to crunch time later in the season, the weather gets worse, more game film on you. You need to be able to run the ball with some success.

I like Andy Dalton and I think he's more than capable of getting it done for us. But in the same breath asking Dalton to put this team on his back and throw us to victory is asking to much IMHO.

To be completely honest I don't think this is our year yet anyways. I think it's gonna be next season. We still need a RT and RG. But man it would be nice to see it start coming together this year.

[*ochocincos*]

Gonna have to use the pass (from the spread) to set up the run this year. Next year, get 1-2 more OL for the right side since attempts at upgrading the right side were lacking this offseason.


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[Hoofhearted]

(08-27-2018, 04:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Don't write off running the ball for the season, just yet.  Olines take time to develop that cohesiveness that makes them function well as a unit.  I would just about promise that once we put the same 5 out there, week after week, for the entire game, they will start coming together.  If they're still struggling to open holes after 4-6 games?  Then we might want to panic.

It's been bad since Jeremy Hills rookie year