Bengals offense has some nice weapons

[BengalChris]

(09-10-2015, 05:46 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: definitely not in the top 5 (as of right now), but I would say top 10 yes.

Let's hope that Hue Jackson makes good use them.

[Brownshoe]

(09-10-2015, 05:54 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Let's hope that Hue Jackson makes good use them.

Yeah, and no major injuries. That's what got us last year.

[CJD]

Andrew Luck has a lot of talent around him as well.

Andre Johnson, Donte Moncrief, Coby Fleener, Dwayne Allen, T.Y Hilton, Phillip Dorsett and Frank Gore is a pretty impressive set of weapons.

Then Pittsburgh has Bell, Bryant, Brown, Wheaton, Miller and Williams.

But other than those teams, I don't think anyone's skill positions are better than ours.

[kramer1]

(09-10-2015, 01:48 AM)jowczarski Wrote: Dalton's total TDs (passing, rushing, receiving) the last three years:
2012: 31
2013: 35
2014: 34

While he turns the ball over quiet a bit in real life, touchdowns (even in non-standard scoring leagues) trumps all in fantasy, and those are decent enough numbers, especially as a QB2. I could see Dalton throwing 35 touchdowns this year (2 more than his career high of 2013 and rushing for another 2-4). Knocking on the door of 40 total touchdowns is solid enough in that format.

Dalton had 19 td passes and only 4 rushing/receiving in 2014. That's 23. You are way off, sir.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-10-2015, 01:32 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I was checking out some fantasy football videos on NFL.com and the question someone asked was, Is Andy Dalton a viable 2nd QB in a 2 QB league. I expected a resounding No.

But the answer was "absolutely, look at all the weapons around Dalton."

AJ Green, Marvin Jones is back, Sanu, Eifert, Jeremy Hill and Bernard were all mentioned. Then there is Burkhead, Hewitt and Little off the bench, none of whom were mentioned.

Is any other QB surrounded by more? If so, who and what do they have?


Thoughts

BTW, I didn't draft Dalton, but I did snag Jeremy Hill early, Bengals D in the middle rounds and I got Marvin Jones with the very last pick.

I think the point that is missed is the potential synergy of having these weapons on the field TOGETHER.

Marvin Jones has never played a snap with Jeremy Hill.

Tyler Eifert has played minimal snaps with another capable TE (Gresham), and now he has Kroft.

Rex Burkhead gives Dalton a slot receiver with the ability to create separation as well as keeping Sanu fresh.

Mario Alford may be able to give the offense some end-around speed that they haven't had since Hawkins.  He may also be able to spell Marvin Jones at "X" and burn a few 9 routes to wear out a defender. 

Oh, and the Bengals have the dynamic Gio Bernard coming in for a series or two and some third downs.  A healthy, fresh, Gio is a lethal Gio....ask the steelers that decided to retire after he made them look old and slow on a single checkdown. 

I'm one of the few that has so much faith in Dalton.  I can't wait to see what he can do this year. 

[djs7685]

Pittsburgh and Indy are probably #1-2 in the league right now. I'm assuming Johnson and Gore are still quality starters.

After some of the other teams sustained early injury and lost players to FA, I think the Bengals match up with any of the other top teams in the league right now as far as skill position players go, especially if you go 7 or 8 deep. WR1/2/3/4, TE1/2, RB1/2.

There are so many different arguments that can be pulled out that it's tough to list exactly where each other team belongs from #3-10 right now. Some people will pull out raw numbers and statistics, but we all know that's extremely misleading. QB and scheme of each team can make quite the difference in a WRs stats. Is Golden Tate the 7th best receiver in the NFL? No. He's definitely good though, so the fact that Stafford threw the ball a million times and Tate had to play a big role in their offense got him the bulk yardage. Most good receivers are going to pile up stats when you put them in a bigger role.

Demaryius Thomas had a great statline last season, but if I were an NFL GM and every WR in the league was in a pool and I had to start a franchise today, I'd probably be looking at a few other guys before him at the very least. I think AB, Calvin, Dez, A.J., and Julio are all better receivers, despite not all of them having DT's numbers. Not everyone would agree with that though, so that's why these discussions are tricky. Not only do people disagree with how good the WR1 is, then we have to look at all of the other WRs, the TEs, and the RBs, and then decide well "if this team has a slightly better WR1, WR3, TE2, RB1, and RB2, how much does that weigh against the other team having a much WR2, much better TE1, and much better WR4?". There are so many variables in play, but I do get into this kind of stuff and it can be fun to debate, but there will never be a clear consensus for this.

We have some more unproven guys than other teams, but we also don't have any over the hill players that are clearly falling off like some of the other top teams. There's a lot to look at, but I do think we're solidly top 10 right now as far as talented players go at the skill positions.

[xavierdude]

(09-10-2015, 01:53 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Bengals fan since i was born in 73 and i have to honestly say that i would not trade the set of weapons Andy has for any other set in the NFL. When i say set i mean you cant pick this wr from this team and rb from another. Please Andy be Direct Tv Andy and not Prime Time Andy with cable. Best roster in the league its all up to that guy throwing the ball.

this "best roster in the league" always falters in the playoffs..most blame dalton for all the playoff losses and even though he is a big part of that ..the whole team sucks when playing very good teams

the bengals have a good roster..not great..

[xavierdude]

(09-10-2015, 02:05 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Who has better and what do they have? Let's lay it all on the table here.

the very good teams that consistently beat the bengals in the playoffs have better rosters

for example AJ is a good receiver..but he tends to get lazy when going after the ball on occasion

hes not a great receiver

[djs7685]

(09-10-2015, 09:45 AM)xavierdude Wrote: the very good teams that consistently beat the bengals in the playoffs have better rosters

for example AJ is a good receiver..but he tends to get lazy when going after the ball on occasion

hes not a great receiver

[WhoDeyWho]

The only proven player we have is Green. Hill showed flashes last season that he too can become elite. Everything else is hype that our players need to go out on the field and prove. Our #2 receiver has 69 catches total in his career. Our #1 TE has 49. They have potential, but until it is realized, that's about all that it is.

[djs7685]

(09-10-2015, 09:59 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: The only proven player we have is Green.  Hill showed flashes last season that he too can become elite.  Everything else is hype that our players need to go out on the field and prove.  Our #2 receiver has 69 catches total in his career.  Our #1 TE has 49.  They have potential, but until it is realized, that's about all that it is.

A lot of the other top teams in the skill position category also have unknowns and "unproven" players as well. Some of them have over the hill, past their prime guys that the Bengals don't currently have anywhere on their roster.

A.J. is an upper tier WR, MLJ is better than most team's current #2, Sanu is good in the slot (not so great as a #1/2 though), Eifert is solid with great upside, Kroft is unknown, Hill is a great running back, Gio is a solid backup RB.

All together, most teams don't look so great when you look at their skill positions as a whole. There are definitely teams that are better and a lot that we could sit here and argue back and forth all day, but the main point is that we're at the very least comparable to every top team past Pittsburgh and Indianapolis. As long as we stay healthy, it's pretty much insane for anybody to put our skill position players (as a group) outside of the top 10.

[Brownshoe]

(09-10-2015, 10:06 AM)djs7685 Wrote: A lot of the other top teams in the skill position category also have unknowns and "unproven" players as well. Some of them have over the hill, past their prime guys that the Bengals don't currently have anywhere on their roster.

A.J. is an upper tier WR, MLJ is better than most team's current #2, Sanu is good in the slot (not so great as a #1/2 though), Eifert is solid with great upside, Kroft is unknown, Hill is a great running back, Gio is a solid backup RB.

All together, most teams don't look so great when you look at their skill positions as a whole. There are definitely teams that are better and a lot that we could sit here and argue back and forth all day, but the main point is that we're at the very least comparable to every top team past Pittsburgh and Indianapolis. As long as we stay healthy, it's pretty much insane for anybody to put our skill position players (as a group) outside of the top 10.

Eh. I'm not so sure if he breaks the top 10 in #2 receivers. I guess that's "better than most team's current #2".

[djs7685]

(09-10-2015, 10:20 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Eh. I'm not so sure if he breaks the top 10 in #2 receivers. I guess that's "better than most team's current #2".

Yeah, I'm really not sure where to put him to be honest, but I do know that he's very likely a top 16 WR2 when you look at what some other teams are putting out there right now.

Barring injury, we're in pretty damn good shape in the skill position department. We have a top half of the league QB, top 10 skill position group, top 10 offensive line, and a coordinator that's supposedly good. This offense SHOULD be great in 2015 barring major injuries. I think I'll be disappointed if we aren't top 10 in scoring this season.

I'm not one of the guys that's going to say that A.J. is the best receiver in the league, I don't think Eifert is already defining greatness as a top TE, I realize that Gio isn't the monster he looked like he would turn into after 2013, and I'm certainly concerned about Bodine. I have my issues with this team too, we aren't perfect by a long shot, BUT, we're looking darn good on offense right now compared to a lot of teams in the league.

[Brownshoe]

(09-10-2015, 10:30 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Yeah, I'm really not sure where to put him to be honest, but I do know that he's very likely a top 16 WR2 when you look at what some other teams are putting out there right now.

Barring injury, we're in pretty damn good shape in the skill position department. We have a top half of the league QB, top 10 skill position group, top 10 offensive line, and a coordinator that's supposedly good. This offense SHOULD be great in 2015 barring major injuries. I think I'll be disappointed if we aren't top 10 in scoring this season.

I'm not one of the guys that's going to say that A.J. is the best receiver in the league, I don't think Eifert is already defining greatness as a top TE, I realize that Gio isn't the monster he looked like he would turn into after 2013, and I'm certainly concerned about Bodine. I have my issues with this team too, we aren't perfect by a long shot, BUT, we're looking darn good on offense right now compared to a lot of teams in the league.

Well I would say he's a pretty good WR2, but how good do you think he is as a #2 receiver? I'm talking about if a team has a TE that could be a #1 like Gronk, Graham, Olsen ect ect. and a good WR1 thats pretty much a #2. Or what about a good TE that could pass as a #2 receiver like Witten, Kelce, Bennet ect ect. That would put him way further down on the list.

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-10-2015, 10:50 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Well I would say he's a pretty good WR2, but how good do you think he is as a #2 receiver? I'm talking about if a team has a TE that could be a #1 like Gronk, Graham, Olsen ect ect. and a good WR1 thats pretty much a #2. Or what about a good TE that could pass as a #2 receiver like Witten, Kelce, Bennet ect ect. That would put him way further down on the list.

Jones hasn't played enough to be considered a good #2.  He has the potential to be though.  I hope he goes out there and makes it obvious this year.  

[Brownshoe]

(09-10-2015, 11:00 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Jones hasn't played enough to be considered a good #2.  He has the potential to be though.  I hope he goes out there and makes it obvious this year.  

Maybe not a good #2, but a good WR2. 712 yards and 10 TD isn't bad for a WR2. If you add in TEs though... he goes way down on the list.

[djs7685]

(09-10-2015, 10:50 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Well I would say he's a pretty good WR2, but how good do you think he is as a #2 receiver? I'm talking about if a team has a TE that could be a #1 like Gronk, Graham, Olsen ect ect. and a good WR1 thats pretty much a #2. Or what about a good TE that could pass as a #2 receiver like Witten, Kelce, Bennet ect ect. That would put him way further down on the list.

That's why this is really difficult to dissect and come to a conclusion that everybody will agree with.

IMO, you'd go down the list at the player's given position and compare them. It gets even more confusing if you try to do it any other way.

The skill level between A.J. Green and Gronk is probably closer than A.J. > Edelman or Eifert < Gronk, but I just think it's more fair to compare the guys at their positions in a discussion like this. I can definitely understand what you're saying though.

[djs7685]

(09-10-2015, 11:02 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Maybe not a good #2, but a good WR2. 712 yards and 10 TD isn't bad for a WR2. If you add in TEs though... he goes way down on the list.

But why wouldn't you add the TEs against the #1 receivers instead of the #2 receivers? Wouldn't that make more sense for teams like the Patriots and Seahawks at least? Gronk and Graham are much more comparable to #1s than #2s. In fact, they're easily the best receiver on their respective teams, so if anything you should be throwing them up on the #1 list.

That's what I was saying about this becoming awfully confusing if you don't compare them at their given positions.

[Brownshoe]

(09-10-2015, 11:03 AM)djs7685 Wrote: That's why this is really difficult to dissect and come to a conclusion that everybody will agree with.

IMO, you'd go down the list at the player's given position and compare them. It gets even more confusing if you try to do it any other way.

The skill level between A.J. Green and Gronk is probably closer than A.J. > Edelman or Eifert < Gronk, but I just think it's more fair to compare the guys at their positions in a discussion like this. I can definitely understand what you're saying though.

Well I think if you want to talk about who has the best #1-3 receivers you have to do it that way.

I would say
Green > Gronk
Edelman > Jones
Lafell > Sanu/Eifert

or

Green > Brandon Marshal
Eric Decker > Jones
Sanu/Eifert = Kerley

I know looking at position vs position is easier, but if you actually want to look at receiving core vs receiving core I would think you would have to do it this way.

[Brownshoe]

(09-10-2015, 11:07 AM)djs7685 Wrote: But why wouldn't you add the TEs against the #1 receivers instead of the #2 receivers? Wouldn't that make more sense for teams like the Patriots and Seahawks at least? Gronk and Graham are much more comparable to #1s than #2s. In fact, they're easily the best receiver on their respective teams, so if anything you should be throwing them up on the #1 list.

That's what I was saying about this becoming awfully confusing if you don't compare them at their given positions.

You would, but then it would drop their WR1 down to #2 receiver.