(09-15-2018, 04:17 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I don't blame Carson for leaving, I certainly don't think there is such a thing as 'abandoning your team'. It's a pro sport, and this is the real world. If an employee wants out or wants changes, thats his American right to do so. He wanted changes, then wanted out. I have quit on employers because I simply hated the way they did business, and I wanted to better my career. Since they werent going to change, and my career wasn't getting better due to it, efff them I was gone.
Bravo!
On top of that, its business as usual for a team to let a player out of his contract early but the player is looked down upon because the owner isn't as serious about winning as the players are?
Think how that locker room feels when they know the disposition of the owner like Mike "Moneybags" Brown?
(09-15-2018, 06:49 PM)McC Wrote: Put a hundred people in a room. How many of those people will be assholes? Probably more than a few. Does that make everyone in the room an asshole? One guy in the room makes a mess. Does that make everyone in the room a slob?
One time, as in your example, is an isolated incident.
These were multiple incidents over a larger span of time.
(09-15-2018, 08:51 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: One time, as in your example, is an isolated incident.
These were multiple incidents over a larger span of time.
From a few individuals who may or may not have been in some way unbalanced. But I'm really tired of the idea that Bengal fans treated him badly because a few did stupid things.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein
Browns are one of the few owners who own their Team outright.
They bought out the last few shares I believe in 2011.
They pinched every penny to be able to do that.
It is no coincidence that Bengals have been competitive since then. They are spending more now on their own players and bringing a few FAs.
But still, they won't spend like the Redskins or Cowboys. Because at the end of the day, their cash cow is the stadium revenue and TV revenue sharing.
That's the reality of a small market Team combined with ownership that have no other option than to milk the family business.
But Palmer's mind was poisoned by TO and Chad - principally TO.
Brown knew TO was poisonous before they signed him, but Palmer and Chad lobbied for him. So when Palmer said he won't come back, that was the end of Chad and TO as Bengals. Chad was traded one day before Palmer was placed on the reserve/did not report list.
(09-15-2018, 09:32 AM)pally Wrote: Carson never hid the fact that he was just in Cincinnati to work. He made no apparent effort to become part of the community. And when during his holdout or aftermath, he made no outreach to the fans, the fans wrote him off. How much of his story is revisionist history since he would rather be remembered as the hard working Cardinal QB than the guy who quit on his team.
Watching this reaffirms my decision to not renew my season tickets after 30+ years. Mike Brown is unwilling to do what it takes to really compete for a Super Bowl. He’s slowly giving up some control, which has had an impact, but until he steps away completely and we see how Katie will run things, this team will always be the bridesmaid and never the bride.
There have been comments in this thread about how Carson quit on his team and didn’t honor his contract. If we assume what Carson said is true, Mike Brown made some promises to him that he didn’t keep. Apparently, Carson should have gotten them in writing.
Man are some of you guys are embarassing yourselfs. Carson was a great qb for this franchise, and he is exactly what we wanted and needed at the position. You call him crybaby and quitter when all he was doing was trying to change the culture and bring a winner to the city. He was right about everything at that time and had mike brown actually listened this franchise would have been much better off for it. We would have never had to endure the zampese oc experiment since he was supposed to be gone before mike brown "changed his mind" . That caused a lot of friction and carson had enough of the penny pinching bullshit. He actually cared a lot more about winning than mike brown did. He tried to force mike browns hand to start delivering a winning team but mike brown was too stubborn and cheap. Carson is a huge reason why we have started seeing changes little by little to get to where we are at today.
While were at it for everybody that has been ragging on marvin for everything over the years I commend him for staying this long. Working for mike brown cant be easy. While I think a head coach is very important to the team, its way more important to have good coodinators / play callers. The coordinators have a lot more impact on wins and losses. Good schemes and great play callers is what wins games in the nfl if the talent is there.
(09-16-2018, 12:04 AM)mikey6866 Wrote: Man are some of you guys are embarassing yourselfs. Carson was a great qb for this franchise, and he is exactly what we wanted and needed at the position. You call him crybaby and quitter when all he was doing was trying to change the culture and bring a winner to the city. He was right about everything at that time and had mike brown actually listened this franchise would have been much better off for it. We would have never had to endure the zampese oc experiment since he was supposed to be gone before mike brown "changed his mind" . That caused a lot of friction and carson had enough of the penny pinching bullshit. He actually cared a lot more about winning than mike brown did. He tried to force mike browns hand to start delivering a winning team but mike brown was too stubborn and cheap. Carson is a huge reason why we have started seeing changes little by little to get to where we are at today.
While were at it for everybody that has been ragging on marvin for everything over the years I commend him for staying this long. Working for mike brown cant be easy. While I think a head coach is very important to the team, its way more important to have good coodinators / play callers. The coordinators have a lot more impact on wins and losses. Good schemes and great play callers is what wins games in the nfl if the talent is there.
He left. We went to the postseason 4 years in a row.
Get your pouting quiting bullshit out if here Carson.
Imagine what Carson would do with the blocking Dalton has had... Jack shit.
Mike Brown paid the hell out of the team leader carson. Dude straight up quit on us. 2Nd round QB comes in and shows a little nutsac and gets 4 playoff appearances in a row. Carson getting to the playoffs seemed like a miracle. With Dalton it is expected.
The only difference between Carson and the fans is, he was able to completely quit and leave the team when he was fed up. Most fans are invested enough and don't have the opportunity to relocate when they get fed up. They're stuck here and emotionally invested in a way Carson could never be. I'd guess that is the reason for any fans that hate Carson. He was able to break away and they can't.
I can only confirm that is the reason i have any ill will towards Carson.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(09-15-2018, 04:17 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Same here. I was done back in 2001-2002 years. Granted at the time I was in Columbus and thankfully was up there in the late 90s ignoring much of the Bengals during that time because there was more things going on like going to OSU. It wasn't too hard to disconnect with the worst professional franchise in sports, so I did basically.
However Marvin was hired from the outside, and Carson was drafted first overall. That is the moment I came back, though with a permanent like hesitancy which I still have to this day because of Mike Brown.
Unfortunately though for Carson, he was drafted by the Bengals. Marvin did change the culture around to a good point, not completely though. Underneath it all, the were still the same ole Bengals.
I don't blame Carson for leaving, I certainly don't think there is such a thing as 'abandoning your team'. It's a pro sport, and this is the real world. If an employee wants out or wants changes, thats his American right to do so. He wanted changes, then wanted out. I have quit on employers because I simply hated the way they did business, and I wanted to better my career. Since they werent going to change, and my career wasn't getting better due to it, efff them I was gone.
you were NOT under any contract from the nfl. All of these guys are!
I really can't help but wonder how many people calling Carson a quitter and a crybaby (ironically, not realizing what they sound like ) are Ohio State fans...
(09-16-2018, 12:50 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: He left. We went to the postseason 4 years in a row.
Get your pouting quiting bullshit out if here Carson.
Imagine what Carson would do with the blocking Dalton has had... Jack shit.
Mike Brown paid the hell out of the team leader carson. Dude straight up quit on us. 2Nd round QB comes in and shows a little nutsac and gets 4 playoff appearances in a row. Carson getting to the playoffs seemed like a miracle. With Dalton it is expected.
Finally. The real bengals fans are here. How did you come up with with this half 12 font half 16 font bolded masterpiece? Cant believe I didnt think of any of this stuff. You are really smart. Say hi to katie for me Mike.
(09-16-2018, 01:57 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The only difference between Carson and the fans is, he was able to completely quit and leave the team when he was fed up. Most fans are invested enough and don't have the opportunity to relocate when they get fed up. They're stuck here and emotionally invested in a way Carson could never be. I'd guess that is the reason for any fans that hate Carson. He was able to break away and they can't.
I can only confirm that is the reason i have any ill will towards Carson.
(09-16-2018, 07:46 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: I really can't help but wonder how many people calling Carson a quitter and a crybaby (ironically, not realizing what they sound like ) are Ohio State fans...
Did you see the part of the show where they talked about Palmer being voted one of the most hated players in the NFL? That wasn’t all angry Buckeyes fans. Palmer will always be remembered as a polarizing player.
(09-16-2018, 01:57 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The only difference between Carson and the fans is, he was able to completely quit and leave the team when he was fed up. Most fans are invested enough and don't have the opportunity to relocate when they get fed up. They're stuck here and emotionally invested in a way Carson could never be. I'd guess that is the reason for any fans that hate Carson. He was able to break away and they can't.
I can only confirm that is the reason i have any ill will towards Carson.
And I can only speak for me when I say nope.
Boomer also went to Mike Brown to discuss personnel. Mikey didn't listen to him either and actually drafted his "replacement" early in the first round. Boomer didn't quit, he went to Mikey and requested to be traded, Mikey said give me one more year. Boomer stayed and the following year was traded to NYJ. I love(d) Boomer and rooted for the Jets while he was there.
If Carson would have done the exact same thing; I would have 0 ill will. But he quit on his team when they needed him most; lest we forget there was a lockout that off-season.
(09-16-2018, 10:39 AM)bfine32 Wrote: And I can only speak for me when I say nope.
Boomer also went to Mike Brown to discuss personnel. Mikey didn't listen to him either and actually drafted his "replacement" early in the first round. Boomer didn't quit, he went to Mikey and requested to be traded, Mikey said give me one more year. Boomer stayed and the following year was traded to NYJ. I love(d) Boomer and rooted for the Jets while he was there.
If Carson would have done the exact same thing; I would have 0 ill will. But he quit on his team when they needed him most; lest we forget there was a lockout that off-season.
That's ok. People that are in denial usually don't realize they're in denial.
Boomer and Carson had completely different personalities. If Carson had stayed as Boomer did, i don't know that there was a possibility of him being traded the next year. Brown was pretty steadfast on him honoring his contract.
If Brown did make any kind of "promises" to Carson about his concerns, and he didn't honor that, then it's pretty hypocritical and underhanded of Brown. I have a hard time imagining the would blatantly do that but i could see him wording it in a way that leaves it ambiguous. Kind of like the Wyche quit/firing.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
There are two parts to this. First, it is the stubbornness of Brown in not making changes to the team that were needed badly. The excuse that he was saving pennies to buy the last shares is old and worn out, he is/was just a cheap bastard. Everything that has happened here in the last 16 years has been with him being PULLED kicking and screaming. He has not been proactive in these moves, it has taken this long just to be more active with coach removals and cutting vets, etc.
The second part is how Carson dealt with it. I understand what and why he did it but I dont agree with it. But I hold no grudge against him.
Mike Brown I will hate forever. He has ridden the back of a very elitist and rich league and if he was to run a business in the real world he would fail in a huge manner.
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
) are Ohio State fans... 
![[Image: bfine-guns2.png]](https://i.ibb.co/YBkDQJV/bfine-guns2.png)
