We Might Have Missed BIG Time (2017 Draft)

[thillan]

Just wanted to start a discussion about this, and wanted to start off with this:

I LIKE John Ross. His speed is incredible, and he honestly is already one of my favorite Bengals. It's fun to have electric players like him.

I LIKE Andy Dalton. I have never thought of him as a top 5 QB, but I do think he's underrated.. but I don't think he's a world beater either.

I am of the mindset that getting a star QB allows your team to have a MUCH larger SB window. Teams like GB, NE, PHI, NO, etc. always have a chance to at least contend, because the QB is so special.

Now of course, you need to have SOME talent around them. Otherwise you end up with a situation like Seattle. If they just had a decent line, things improve a lot for them.

Which leads me to this: we have a talented team, but many of us worry we have a ceiling that does not call for the SB. I understand, and I also understand "Any Given Sunday." BUT.. we picked a WR with some questions.. and missed out on Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes.

I really think we missed. And both of these guys are in our conference. I get that we aren't in a bad QB situation by any means, but I do think you can change from good to great. And I think we missed our chance.

What are your guys thoughts on this? I really think that having either Watson or Mahomes on our squad, with the talent we have, opens up a bigger window for us. And the future would be REALLY bright.

PS: I know some will say Watson isn't playing that great.. I'd argue against it. His O-line is atrocious, and he's still showing playmaking ability to keep these guys in games. Overall, I think he has much more potential than Andy has ever had, but again, Andy is not a bad QB by any means.

PPS: It's officlal. Mahomes has the second or third strongest arm I have ever seen. And that's a HUGE weapon, every single game.

[impactplaya]

rep him please

[sandwedge]

Funny how fans want to make changes when the team is playing great..... It just boggles my mind...

[Nicomo Cosca]

Mahomes certainly looks like he’s going to be a star. You have to hand it to the Chiefs, they had a pretty good QB in Alex Smith, but still went out and drafted Mahomes. If Mayfield lives up to his potential, John Dorsey could end up having picked 2 of the best young QB’s in the league.

[thillan]

(10-02-2018, 11:50 AM)impactplaya Wrote: rep him please

What? Report me or reputation? Lol

(10-02-2018, 11:59 AM)sandwedge Wrote: Funny how fans want to make changes when the team is playing great..... It just boggles my mind...

I don't see it that way, I love the team this season. Just interested in other viewpoints. But it's fine if people don't want to talk about it, we can let the thread go to the second page then

[Goalpost]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-round

At the time of the draft, NFL.com had them both as lower ranked 1st rounders per their grades. 5.8 and 5.9 respectfully.

I only say that to mention their perceived ranking on the actual day of the draft

[thillan]

(10-02-2018, 12:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Mahomes certainly looks like he’s going to be a star. You have to hand it to the Chiefs, they had a pretty good QB in Alex Smith, but still went out and drafted Mahomes. If Mayfield lives up to his potential, John Dorsey could end up having picked 2 of the best young QB’s in the league.

Yeah it was a brilliant move. They knew what they had in Alex Smith, and wanted to raise the potential of the team. Impressive stuff.

(10-02-2018, 12:04 PM)Goalpost Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-round

At the time of the draft, NFL.com had them both as lower ranked 1st rounders per their grades. 5.8 and 5.9 respectfully.

I only say that to mention their perceived ranking on the actual day of the draft

That is a great point for sure. I understand Mahomes just cause of turnovers.. arm strength is such an important asset though. I was a little surprised even at the time that Watson was graded too low IMO, I saw nothing but great things from him during his time. I really wanted him in the draft. Texans need to work on not getting him slaughtered so he can make some plays lol

[*Synric*]

The Chiefs seem to start strong every year then kinda fade headed into the stretch. Mahomes looks the part though.

[SunsetBengal]

If it weren't for Andy's experience, and quick release, this team would be dead in the water. Could you even imagine an inexperienced QB trying to play behind our façade of an OL? Heck, as athletic as he is, Watson got busted up last year.

[thillan]

(10-02-2018, 12:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If it weren't for Andy's experience, and quick release, this team would be dead in the water.  Could you even imagine an inexperienced QB trying to play behind our façade of an OL?  Heck, as athletic as he is, Watson got busted up last year.

I think our OL is a lot better than last year. The only real weakness to me is the RT. Everyone else to me has played from fair to solid. 

Watson did get hit yeah, but his season-ending injury was non-contact. Gotta love Andy's durability though, not sure yet how Watson holds up over time.

[Bengalitis]

(10-02-2018, 11:50 AM)impactplaya Wrote: rep him please

I am just delighted we will be playing the chiefs. It's gonna be one hell of a game!

[SunsetBengal]

(10-02-2018, 12:27 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: I am just delighted we will be playing the chiefs. It's gonna be one hell of a game!

I'll set the over/under on points scored at 87.

[Luvnit2]

(10-02-2018, 11:41 AM)thillan Wrote: Just wanted to start a discussion about this, and wanted to start off with this:

I LIKE John Ross. His speed is incredible, and he honestly is already one of my favorite Bengals. It's fun to have electric players like him.

I LIKE Andy Dalton. I have never thought of him as a top 5 QB, but I do think he's underrated.. but I don't think he's a world beater either.

I am of the mindset that getting a star QB allows your team to have a MUCH larger SB window. Teams like GB, NE, PHI, NO, etc. always have a chance to at least contend, because the QB is so special.

Now of course, you need to have SOME talent around them. Otherwise you end up with a situation like Seattle. If they just had a decent line, things improve a lot for them.

Which leads me to this: we have a talented team, but many of us worry we have a ceiling that does not call for the SB. I understand, and I also understand "Any Given Sunday." BUT.. we picked a WR with some questions.. and missed out on Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes.

I really think we missed. And both of these guys are in our conference. I get that we aren't in a bad QB situation by any means, but I do think you can change from good to great. And I think we missed our chance.

What are your guys thoughts on this? I really think that having either Watson or Mahomes on our squad, with the talent we have, opens up a bigger window for us. And the future would be REALLY bright.

PS: I know some will say Watson isn't playing that great.. I'd argue against it. His O-line is atrocious, and he's still showing playmaking ability to keep these guys in games. Overall, I think he has much more potential than Andy has ever had, but again, Andy is not a bad QB by any means.

PPS: It's officlal. Mahomes has the second or third strongest arm I have ever seen. And that's a HUGE weapon, every single game.

LOL..typical Monday morning QB

Rodgers - 22 or 23 teams missed
Brady - Pick #199 so 31 teams missed arguably the best QB ever
Ben R. - 9 teams missed
Wilson - 31 teams missed multiple times
Favre - 31 teams including the Packers missed multiple times

These are just a few of the misses by a lot of NFL teams

Easy after the fact to say the missed, but the Brady Quinns, Ryan Leafs, Akili Smiths, Jack Thompson's and many more prove easier said than done drafting the right QB or any position really.

[Whatever]

(10-02-2018, 11:41 AM)thillan Wrote: Just wanted to start a discussion about this, and wanted to start off with this:

I LIKE John Ross. His speed is incredible, and he honestly is already one of my favorite Bengals. It's fun to have electric players like him.

I LIKE Andy Dalton. I have never thought of him as a top 5 QB, but I do think he's underrated.. but I don't think he's a world beater either.

I am of the mindset that getting a star QB allows your team to have a MUCH larger SB window. Teams like GB, NE, PHI, NO, etc. always have a chance to at least contend, because the QB is so special.

Now of course, you need to have SOME talent around them. Otherwise you end up with a situation like Seattle. If they just had a decent line, things improve a lot for them.

Which leads me to this: we have a talented team, but many of us worry we have a ceiling that does not call for the SB. I understand, and I also understand "Any Given Sunday." BUT.. we picked a WR with some questions.. and missed out on Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes.

I really think we missed. And both of these guys are in our conference. I get that we aren't in a bad QB situation by any means, but I do think you can change from good to great. And I think we missed our chance.

What are your guys thoughts on this? I really think that having either Watson or Mahomes on our squad, with the talent we have, opens up a bigger window for us. And the future would be REALLY bright.

PS: I know some will say Watson isn't playing that great.. I'd argue against it. His O-line is atrocious, and he's still showing playmaking ability to keep these guys in games. Overall, I think he has much more potential than Andy has ever had, but again, Andy is not a bad QB by any means.

PPS: It's officlal. Mahomes has the second or third strongest arm I have ever seen. And that's a HUGE weapon, every single game.

I think it's an interesting point to look at in a few years.  

The thing with Mahomes is that as great as he's looked so far, it has only been a handful of games.  It takes YEARS to determine if a guy is a franchise QB or not.  Look at how many guys were annoited the next elite QB and fell back down to various levels after teams got enough film on them to figure them out and they were unable to adapt.  Guys like Derek Anderson, Kaepernick, Dak Prescott, Derek Carr, etc.  How many guys had their careers derail because they couldn't hold up to the pounding of the NFL like Luck, Bridgewater, Palmer, and RG3?

[Goalpost]

The knock on both these guys was that they weren't perhaps traditional pure pocket passers. That's actually why I liked Watson. Mahomes, to me, is like lightening in a bottle. Did not foresee this so far.

[GreenCornBengal]

Let's see how these guys are in 2-3 years. There have been numerous up and comers (RG3, Keap, Winston, Carr, Mariota, etc. etc.) that have come up looking great and have leveled off in recent years.

Andy continues to thrive and will have a very long career here, sorry!

[thillan]

(10-02-2018, 12:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: LOL..typical Monday morning QB

Rodgers - 22 or 23 teams missed
Brady - Pick #199 so 31 teams missed arguably the best QB ever
Ben R. - 9 teams missed
Wilson - 31 teams missed multiple times
Favre - 31 teams including the Packers missed multiple times

These are just a few of the misses by a lot of NFL teams

Easy after the fact to say the missed, but the Brady Quinns, Ryan Leafs, Akili Smiths, Jack Thompson's and many more prove easier said than done drafting the right QB or any position really.

I'm definitely not saying it's easy. I'm saying that even though you may have not seen it coming, it can still haunt you for years. Having any of those guys you listed would be great lol. But again, I do like Dalton, and he has proven to be nothing but trustworthy this season.

(10-02-2018, 12:33 PM)Whatever Wrote: I think it's an interesting point to look at in a few years.  

The thing with Mahomes is that as great as he's looked so far, it has only been a handful of games.  It takes YEARS to determine if a guy is a franchise QB or not.  Look at how many guys were annoited the next elite QB and fell back down to various levels after teams got enough film on them to figure them out and they were unable to adapt.  Guys like Derek Anderson, Kaepernick, Dak Prescott, Derek Carr, etc.  How many guys had their careers derail because they couldn't hold up to the pounding of the NFL like Luck, Bridgewater, Palmer, and RG3?

I see where you're coming from for sure. I don't know if Luck has necessarily had his career derailed, I think he's playing at a Pro Bowl level again. But you're right, none of these guys are unbeatable.

(10-02-2018, 12:38 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Let's see how these guys are in 2-3 years. There have been numerous up and comers (RG3, Keap, Winston, Carr, Mariota, etc. etc.) that have come up looking great and have leveled off in recent years.

Andy continues to thrive and will have a very long career here, sorry!

Lol, just because I think something can be better, doesn't mean I don't like where we are. The "sorry" comment isn't necessary, since I've mentioned I like Andy.

Simply a question of if we may have missed trading good for great

[Au165]

Remember when RG3 was the next great QB? How about when Dak was the next great QB? Okay, so let's wait until the sophomore year that notoriously derails QB's to just make sure before we crown him. He has looked good in a short period, but like everything people adapt and adjust. I'm sure someone will reply saying this time is different, but honestly everyone thinks that...until its not.

Side note, the whole looking back at drafts in hindsight thing is pointless. Most people passed on Rodgers, everyone passed on Brady 5 times, everyone passed on Drew Brees. It happens you move on.

[Tiger Teeth]

(10-02-2018, 12:48 PM)Au165 Wrote: Remember when RG3 was the next great QB? How about when Dak was the next great QB? Okay, so let's wait until the sophomore year that notoriously derails QB's to just make sure before we crown him. He has looked good in a short period, but like everything people adapt and adjust. I'm sure someone will reply saying this time is different, but honestly everyone thinks that...until its not.

Side note, the whole looking back at drafts in hindsight thing is pointless. Most people passed on Rodgers, everyone passed on Brady 5 times, everyone passed on Drew Brees. It happens you move on.

Good post.  +rep

[thillan]

(10-02-2018, 12:48 PM)Au165 Wrote: Remember when RG3 was the next great QB? How about when Dak was the next great QB? Okay, so let's wait until the sophomore year that notoriously derails QB's to just make sure before we crown him. He has looked good in a short period, but like everything people adapt and adjust. I'm sure someone will reply saying this time is different, but honestly everyone thinks that...until its not.

Side note, the whole looking back at drafts in hindsight thing is pointless. Most people passed on Rodgers, everyone passed on Brady 5 times, everyone passed on Drew Brees. It happens you move on.

I did mention two QBs in here, one of which is in his sophomore season lol.

But I see your point, though RG3s was because of injury. I'm not sure everyone thought Dak was the next great QB.. he was just winning behind a great O-line and paired with an elite RB. I didn't hear many saying that.

With respect, you can see the potential in some players. You don't always have to hide your thoughts until the scary "sophomore" season. Mahomes has one of the strongest arms I've ever seen. That's not something that goes away in the sophomore season.. that's a weapon every game. And it makes him REALLY hard to defend.

Watson has big play ability, and a pretty good deep ball. I just think he has great tools to be an MVP-level QB. Again, you don't have to wait 2-3 years to see the tools. He has them. 

I get the point about passing on QBs, but I don't think it's pointless. Teams do it all the time to find comparisons so that they don't make the same mistake. Do you think the Chiefs traded up, even with a solid, proven QB if they didn't see the potential and the comparisons? I'm sure they looked back to see what he looks like. Regardless, if you miss, you do have to move on, but you will have to face that player. So it does haunt you.