4th and 1... Where is the Media backlash?

[CJD]

(10-15-2018, 04:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Neither has an all-out blitz.

We lost Sunday because of dropped passes, poor tackling, and no pressure on Ben.  The decision to punt early in the third period was the right call and had nothing to do with our losing.

We lost to those three things...and yet it was a GOOD idea to put the game in the defense's hands by punting on 4th and 1 from opponent's 40 when plays on the opponent's side of the field were few and far between?

Since when is it a good idea to rely on a poor tackling no pressure defense in a close game with division winning stakes on the line?

They did it with the 4th and 1 punt and they did it again when they scored with 1:18 left on the clock with a mere 1 point lead.

[fredtoast]

(10-15-2018, 04:43 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: We lost to those three things...and yet it was a GOOD idea to put the game in the defense's hands by punting on 4th and 1 from opponent's 40 when plays on the opponent's side of the field were few and far between?

Since when is it a good idea to rely on a poor tackling no pressure defense in a close game with division winning stakes on the line?

They did it with the 4th and 1 punt and they did it again when they scored with 1:18 left on the clock with a mere 1 point lead.

When it is a 14-14 tie and we just got stuffed on 3rd and 1.

Better to make the Steelers drive 90 yards than 60.

And anyone who thinks we should have tried NOT TO SCORE a td at the end of the game when we had scored ZERO POINTS in the entire second half is crazy.

[BrownAssClown]

Am I the only one that wanted the Bengals to onside kick after they scored the go ahead touchdown with 1:28 remaining in the game and the Steelers having all three timeouts and only needing a field goal to win? I'm not talking about a regular onside kick set up, but a kick like Nugent pulled off years ago in Dallas. I even said to peeps I was watching the game with," They kick this deep, not only are the Steelers gonna win this game, there gonna rub our noses in it and not settle for a field goal, there gonna get a TD." I hated to be so cynical and would have loved to have been wrong but unfortunately being a Bengals fan for 40+ years, it is what it is. I know the odds are long on recovering an onside kick, but I would have taken the chance with putting the ball back in Big Ben's hands.

[wolfkaosaun]

(10-15-2018, 04:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote:
Actually that is usually exactly how championships are won.

When was the last time you saw a Super Bowl champion go for it on fourth down in a tie game on the first possession of the second half?

Maybe if you are at the goal line and want to score a statement TD instead of a FG, but in that situation the opposing team is pinned down if you don't make it.

Championship coaches just don't go for it at the forty in that situation.

Actually, the Eagles did this quite often in 2017.

There were 9 instances where the Eagles went for it on 4th down in the opponents 40-49 yard line.

The Eagles converted 5 of those 9 plays.

They also went for it on 4th down twice against the Patriots. One of those times being on their own 45 yard line. When they were down by 1 point.

The Eagles went for it on 4th down three times in the playoffs. And converted all three.

Doug Pederson went for it on 4th down 29 times.
13 of those plays came within the 40-40 yard marks on both sides of the field.

Heck, did you watch the game last night with Kansas City?
With 6:41 left in the game, they were down 16-27 and on their own 46. And guess what they did?
Went for it on 4th down.

Sean McVay did the same thing this week. Guess who else goes for it on 4th down quite often? Mike Tomlin and Bill Belichek.
Heck, the only reason the Steelers had a close game against the Jaguars was because they would go for it on 4th down.

[fredtoast]

(10-15-2018, 06:07 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Actually, the Eagles did this quite often in 2017.

There were 9 instances where the Eagles went for it on 4th down in the opponents 40-49 yard line.

The Eagles converted 5 of those 9 plays.

They also went for it on 4th down twice against the Patriots. One of those times being on their own 45 yard line. When they were down by 1 point.

The Eagles went for it on 4th down three times in the playoffs. And converted all three.

Doug Pederson went for it on 4th down 29 times.
13 of those plays came within the 40-40 yard marks on both sides of the field.

Heck, did you watch the game last night with Kansas City?
With 6:41 left in the game, they were down 16-27 and on their own 46. And guess what they did?
Went for it on 4th down.

Sean McVay did the same thing this week. Guess who else goes for it on 4th down quite often? Mike Tomlin and Bill Belichek.
Heck, the only reason the Steelers had a close game against the Jaguars was because they would go for it on 4th down.

The Eagles would not go for it in the second half of a close game.

Eagles went for it on fourth down 29 times last year, but only 2 times in the second half when there was less than a td difference, and one of those times was in the Super Bowl against the Patriots when they were trailing in the fourth quarter and had to.

[fortyyearfan]

(10-15-2018, 04:08 PM)jj22 Wrote: How can it help us win when the game was already lost?

And all we can go by is our 4th down record this season, and I am clearly more confident then you are.

marvin needs to go and mike brown needs to step down.until then its always going to be a losing season.when you fail to beat your arch rival at your house,you need to be FIRED.

[motoarch]

There’s no media backlash because they were completely different situations and ours didn’t effect the out come of the game.

I know you’ll argue it did but it didn’t anymore than any other decision. Pick any random play that did or didn’t work and play that game.

I would like to have seen us go for it. I don’t think we got any value out of that punt. But ultimately I don’t think it mattered.

[wolfkaosaun]

(10-15-2018, 06:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote:
The Eagles would not go for it in the second half of a close game.

Eagles went for it on fourth down 29 times last year, but only 2 times in the second half when there was less than a td difference, and one of those times was in the Super Bowl against the Patriots when they were trailing in the fourth quarter and had to.

There was 5:39 left in the game. On their own side of the field. With all 3 timeouts. 1 point game.

They didn't "have" to go for it on 4th down there. Especially on their own side of the field.
But Pederson did.
Why?
Because championship coaches don't play scared.


You literally disproved your point in the next sentence.
And ignored the comments about Tomlin and Belichek going for it on 4th downs often as well.

Do you think Marvin would go for it on that 4th down, or punt it?
That's the real question you have to ask there.
And we already know that answer. Because time and time again, Marvin punts it. We've seen it in close games. Seen it in early games.

The Bengals have punted the ball 4 times in the opponents territory this year. FOUR.
At the Ravens 37 yard line, Falcons 39 yard line, Steelers 40, Steelers 49.
Six times if you include being at the 50.
And yeah, some are understandable. Such as the 4th and 18 with the Falcons.
But, again, championship teams don't play scared.
In 2017, the Eagles went for it on 4th and 5+ eight different times.

And while yes, the Eagles didn't make all those, Pederson's willingness to go for it on 4th down and believe in his team proved to work out in the end. Setting the record for going for it on 4th down more than any team before.
And it won the Eagles a Super Bowl.

Dating back to 2016, the Bengals have attempted 23 total 4th downs.
No other team in the NFL has attempted less.

When you've only beaten a division team 8 times in your 16th season, you should probably change up your coaching strategy.
I mean, the Bills have a better win percentage against the Patriots than the Bengals against the Steelers in this decade.

[motoarch]

(10-15-2018, 05:05 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: Am I the only one that wanted the Bengals to onside kick after they scored the go ahead touchdown with 1:28

Yes. Now go sit in the corner and don’t think about things anymore cause it’s making everyone stupider. Is that even a word? See I’m now dumber. Thanks.

[jfkbengals]

I found it funny that posters in the Game Day thread were pissed that Marvin did not go for it, and kept saying Tomlin would do it in that position.

Then Tomlin found himself in that position.

He punted, too...

[TheUberHuber]

4th and 1 is not as scary as it used to be. Its a different league now. Not saying we should have gone for it and i dont think that was the deciding factor. Just saying 4th and 1 is not as hard as it was 10 years ago. I personally would go for it on 4th and short almost everytime now.

[YsCascadia]

(10-15-2018, 02:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Tie game.  Defensive playing well.  The reason their is no media backlash is because it was the right decision.  

Mixon had just gotten stuffed on 3rd and 1. If we go for it and fail you all would be crying about how stupid it was to go for it.

UMmmm... No.

YOU might be crying about how stupid it was.  I was screaming at my TV for him to go for it.  I even said, if we don't convert, fine,  we lose NOTHING.  Why, because our defense wasn't actually playing that well.  After the punt, the Steelers marched right down the field and kicked a FG.  Hell the ruling could have easily been for a TD on that drive and we got lucky.

If we go for it and don't convert, then THAT is when you are "trusting" your defense and can claim they are playing well.  Well enough to gamble.  I actually think we do convert that 4th and 1 though.  Either run, or my preference is let Dalton keep it.  Possibly a pass, but with the WRs dropping all day long, I would be hesitant to pass.

If we convert and move a few more yards up, we are able to come away with points, even 3 points would have been something.  However we stalled and our HC failed to attempt to light a spark by showing some guts.

I will say that I don't think Marvin is overly conservative.  There are times when he does gamble and show the guts that we all want.  This just wasn't one of those times and it is just infuriating as this is against the Steelers our most hated divisional foe.

[BrownAssClown]

(10-15-2018, 08:01 PM)motoarch Wrote: Yes.  Now go sit in the corner and don’t think about things anymore cause it’s making everyone stupider.  Is that even a word?  See I’m now dumber.  Thanks.

Your welcome, rude, but welcome.

[J24]

Does anyone remember when the falcons went for it against us and Geno got the sack at midfield; which lead to a TD for us? Just because it's an agressive call doesn't mean it was the correct call. Teams are playing with fire by going for it so much at will eventually burn them.

[YsCascadia]

(10-15-2018, 07:42 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: When you've only beaten a division team 8 times in your 16th season, you should probably change up your coaching strategy.
I mean, the Bills have a better win percentage against the Patriots than the Bengals against the Steelers in this decade.

This...  You can't keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result.  At the end.  Not one single Bengals fan was "shocked" that the Steelers won.  Sure we scored our TD with under 2 mins to go and that would be a great thing.  IF not for the Steelers having ALL 3 TOs, and only needing a FG to win.

The Steelers have won many of their games against us in similar fashion.  Letting us get the lead and making sure there is time on the clock to make their offense has a chance.  If we want to beat the Steelers, we have to go for it on 4th and 1 in our own territory, and we have to learn how to milk the clock down until there is less than 30s left in regulation.  If we would have ran on 1st down after the 2 min warning, the clock either runs or they take a TO.  Throw on 2nd and 3rd down. 

I could understand it if our Defense was getting pressure on Ben but he was clean all game.  Sure there was a lot of holding that wasn't called, but good teams don't rely on the mistakes to win games.  They accept any help their opponents want to give, like not going for it on 4th and 1 or not milking the clock, but they don't rely on it.

[BengalRed]

Mo Egger made the point today, and I agree with him, that they could have at least tried to draw the Steelers off sides. If the play clock had expired and they had gotten a five yard penalty would that have been a big deal for Kevin Huber? No. No guts no glory.

[YsCascadia]

(10-15-2018, 10:06 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Does anyone remember when the falcons went for it against us and Geno got the sack at midfield; which lead to a TD for us? Just because it's an agressive call doesn't mean it was the correct call. Teams are playing with fire by going for it so much at will eventually burn them.

No one blamed the Falcons for going for it.  Not only that but it wasn't 4th and 1.  I think it was 4th and 5.  I would also add that the Falcons aren't our divisional opponent, one that has our number, which means there is more of a reason for us to go for it on 4th and 1 on the verge of FG range. 

As to getting sacked, that could only happen if we pass in this situation.  Another run with Mixon, give him a chance at redemption, or fake hand off to Mixon with Dalton keeping it for an outside run.

[J24]

(10-15-2018, 10:16 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: No one blamed the Falcons for going for it.  Not only that but it wasn't 4th and 1.  I think it was 4th and 5.  I would also add that the Falcons aren't our divisional opponent, one that has our number, which means there is more of a reason for us to go for it on 4th and 1 on the verge of FG range. 

As to getting sacked, that could only happen if we pass in this situation.  Another run with Mixon, give him a chance at redemption, or fake hand off to Mixon with Dalton keeping it for an outside run.

But they  should have been critical because it was a stupid decision. 
Also we we're just stuffed on the previous play and we have a terrible offensive line to boot. 
Going for it just doesn't make sense and the negatives of missing it are just as big as the positives if it is made.

[YsCascadia]

(10-15-2018, 10:30 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: But they  should have been critical because it was a stupid decision. 
Also we we're just stuffed on the previous play and we have a terrible offensive line to boot. 
Going for it just doesn't make sense and the negatives of missing it are just as big as the positives if it is made.

So you think Mixon can't get 1 yard on 2 tries?  If so then we should cut him immediately.  I kid... sort of.

Yes, Mixon doesn't get the needed yardage on 3rd down, but you don't move away from him completely.  Hell that would have been the best time for a Dalton scramble.  Line up like we are going to give it to Mixon, hard count the max out of it before we do snap it, after the snap, fake to Mixon and let Dalton run like mad toward the outside, he has shown his ability to do this on other occasions.

I am not going to call Marvin a conservative HC.  He has definitely gambled in the past.  However against the Steelers he does seem to "play it safe" more than he gambles which has led to this perception of him playing scared.  He seems to play "not to lose" instead of playing to win.

One time I do recall him gambling against the Steelers was in 09, we fake punt, and run.  We won that game.

[J24]

(10-15-2018, 10:51 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: So you think Mixon can't get 1 yard on 2 tries?  If so then we should cut him immediately.  I kid... sort of.

Yes, Mixon doesn't get the needed yardage on 3rd down, but you don't move away from him completely.  Hell that would have been the best time for a Dalton scramble.  Line up like we are going to give it to Mixon, hard count the max out of it before we do snap it, after the snap, fake to Mixon and let Dalton run like mad toward the outside, he has shown his ability to do this on other occasions.

I am not going to call Marvin a conservative HC.  He has definitely gambled in the past.  However against the Steelers he does seem to "play it safe" more than he gambles which has led to this perception of him playing scared.  He seems to play "not to lose" instead of playing to win.

One time I do recall him gambling against the Steelers was in 09, we fake punt, and run.  We won that game.

Honestly with this line no I don't think he can. Would rather pass it with Dalton then run it with mixon if we go for it.