1st Half MVP

[McC]

(10-30-2018, 01:59 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I happen to agree that Dalton is probably our MVP in the first half. But I find it unsettling that a guy who is really only a little better than average at his position (as proven by his stats this year in and year out) is our MVP. Our stars have decent stats, like Geno with 6 sacks and Dunlap with 7 and Boyd and Green. But geez there's a huge gap between Geno and Dunlap and the next guy. There a huge gap after you get past Boyd. Bates and Williams each have 3 INTs, but our corners have zero. It's just odd and I can't explain it.

DreK can't catch a cold and WJ ain't much better.  Both of them have dropped multiple picks, which is why neither of them have any.  The chances have been there.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-30-2018, 07:23 PM)McC Wrote: Simple reasons for this--he missed time and he doesn't get the ball enough.  Lazor talks about running the ball a lot more than he actually does it.

Yep. It’s no coincidence that when Mixon gets around 20+ carries we usually win. Underutilizing Mixon has been my only real beef with Lazor.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-30-2018, 12:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Andy has been doing that for several years now. I first noticed it during Hue's tenure. He's burned a few teams multiple times with it.

That said, he's also gotten a couple false starts out of Bobby Hart, although I think that was just a newbie thing.


Well the fact that Andy is winning this vote in a landslide is pretty telling, considering how divided people are on him.

Not sure what you mean by bringing up LaFell. A lot has changed since LaFell was our #2. Not just Boyd, although he's obviously helped.


Agreed. I mean no disrespect towards Green, Boyd or Mixon, but it seems pretty obvious. Base stats seem to be deceptive this year, seeing how highly PFF has him ranked. Guess a lot of QB's are compiling junk stats. Even the dreaded QBR (for those who care) has him ranked 14th, ahead of Watson, Stafford, Wilson and Rodgers.


On pace for over 1100 rush yards despite missing 2 games. Averaging a stellar 4.8 YPC and on pace for 12 total TDs. 

If he hadn't missed 2 games, he'd be up there with Andy for me. 

I’m kind of surprised it’s not a little closer. Mainly based off the game ball threads. You called it though.

[wolfkaosaun]

Definitely Dalton. His play has improved dramatically.

Two of my biggest concerns with Dalton were his hesitation on taking shots and escaping the pocket while keeping his eyes down instead of down the field.

He's improved on both of those. He even has had some nice touch passes.

I also think his accuracy has improved a lot. Sure. He's missed some throws, but I think those are certainly down from the last two years.

Boyd is the most improved player, though.

[rezolve11]

I wanted to go with Andy because of his game winning drives but honestly if Boyd hadn’t stepped up the way he has, we wouldn’t be close to the record we’re at.

[NATI BENGALS]

Mixon for gutting out the Ravens game on a bad knee. Of our 3 losses he missed one and had 11 and 13 carries in the other two. With Mixon coming off of knee surgery our dumb luck coach has managed to get by with 2 active RBs.

Daltons KC debacle gives me prime time phobia. He is playing his ass off. But my confidence level in our ability to win a prime time game is very low. And its not just because of Marvin.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-30-2018, 09:27 AM)motoarch Wrote: These are all valid choices and I can see lots of discussion back and forth for each.  

I feel like andy and green are playing the way they are suppose to not necessarily at a higher than normal level.  Mixon is playing very respectfully but somehow hasn’t been at quite the level id hoped with the exception of maybe 2 games.  Some might disagree but I thought/hoped he was going to be unquestionably a super star across the league.  Maybe I expected too much.

That leaves Boyd and I think we all agree he’s been much better than anyone anticipated.  Grated without defenses respecting aj the way they do he might not have the opportunity to shine the way he has but damnit if he’s not taking full advantage of it right now.  Kid is awesome.

Having said all that andy gets my vote.  He gets the ball ever offensive play and has done well with the game on the line this year.  Aj, Mixon and Boyd have all been Integral to those drives but Andy’s still driving the bus.

His current pace would give him 1357 rush yards and 11 TDs. He's 5th in rush yards per game.

He's averaging 4.8 YPC, which ranks 11th among RB's, and 1st among RB's with at least 100 carries. 

He is a star... but he's also a Bengal, so he's under the radar. If Mixon were a Giant, we'd be sick of hearing about how great he is.

(10-30-2018, 07:50 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m kind of surprised it’s not a little closer. Mainly based off the game ball threads. You called it though.

Well part of me thought Dalton would run away with it, but I'd be lying if I said I had no doubt about that. Dalton is a lightning rod. Even some who voted for him are still calling him average. Plus it's not like there aren't other good candidates to vote for. AJ, Boyd and Mixon are all having great seasons. 

(10-31-2018, 12:16 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Mixon for gutting out the Ravens game on a bad knee. Of our 3 losses he missed one and had 11 and 13 carries in the other two. With Mixon coming off of knee surgery our dumb luck coach has managed to get by with 2 active RBs.

Daltons KC debacle gives me prime time phobia. He is playing his ass off. But my confidence level in our ability to win a prime time game is very low. And its not just because of Marvin.

Everything about Marvin's tenure screams that it's everything to do with Marvin.

What's his record in prime time?
How did CP play in prime time? Before and after he left?
When Dalton played well over the previous 12 prime time games, what was the team's record?
Which phase (offense, defense, special teams) wasn't horrible vs KC?

[grampahol]

Ogbuihi's doing an OUTSTANDING JOB of keeping the bench warm. Hell, NE will probably sign him once his contract is up and make him an all pro benchwarmer. 

[*rfaulk34*]

I can't give it to the QB when he's only completing 63.4% of his passes (24th in the NFL), 7.2YPA (23rd in the NFL) and has 8 INTs. It may be his best season with yards and TDs but he's still only ranked 21st in rating. 

His numbers would have been great 5 years ago, but as he's improving, others are improving more and setting the bar higher. It's the same story i was telling in '13. If he raises the comp% and cuts down on the INTs, his overall rating would go up exponentially. Five years later, they still haven't. 

The 4th quarter comebacks are great and show his ability to focus and perform but they might not be necessary if he plays better in quarters 1-3. 

I'd go with Boyd for MVP. He's adjusted on broken plays, kills on 3rd down and made the most of his opportunity. 

[WeezyBengal]

Its a crime that Mixon only has 115 yards receiving.

[WeezyBengal]

(10-30-2018, 07:53 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Definitely Dalton. His play has improved dramatically.

Two of my biggest concerns with Dalton were his hesitation on taking shots and escaping the pocket while keeping his eyes down instead of down the field.

He's improved on both of those. He even has had some nice touch passes.

I also think his accuracy has improved a lot. Sure. He's missed some throws, but I think those are certainly down from the last two years.

Boyd is the most improved player, though.

I agree with everything you said. Andy is putting balls in windows this year that ive never seen him do before. His velocity also looks like it has improved. He gets my vote for MVP. 

I also agree about Boyd. He is most improved, but not MVP. Honestly, this team has been more QB eccentric than ever before. If it weren't for Dalton this team could easily be 2-6 or 3-5. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-31-2018, 09:25 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I agree with everything you said. Andy is putting balls in windows this year that ive never seen him do before. His velocity also looks like it has improved. He gets my vote for MVP. 

I also agree about Boyd. He is most improved, but not MVP. Honestly, this team has been more QB eccentric than ever before. If it weren't for Dalton this team could easily be 2-6 or 3-5. 

One thing that's never been a question with Andy is his work ethic.  I'd be willing to wager he put in a lot of time with Van Pelt when league rules allowed.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-31-2018, 02:32 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I can't give it to the QB when he's only completing 63.4% of his passes (24th in the NFL), 7.2YPA (23rd in the NFL) and has 8 INTs. It may be his best season with yards and TDs but he's still only ranked 21st in rating. 

His numbers would have been great 5 years ago, but as he's improving, others are improving more and setting the bar higher. It's the same story i was telling in '13. If he raises the comp% and cuts down on the INTs, his overall rating would go up exponentially. Five years later, they still haven't. 

The 4th quarter comebacks are great and show his ability to focus and perform but they might not be necessary if he plays better in quarters 1-3. 

I'd go with Boyd for MVP. He's adjusted on broken plays, kills on 3rd down and made the most of his opportunity. 

4 INTs were tipped balls.....two were a WR quitting on routes though.  Cam Newton gets MVP praise (actually won it) with sub 60% completion rate.  We've dropped some balls too.  The eye test tells me that this season, the stats haven't told the whole story.  He's played very well in the 1st half of the games with the exception of Miami and KC.  

The QB is also doing better on those broken plays......

[motoarch]

(10-31-2018, 12:56 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: His current pace would give him 1357 rush yards and 11 TDs. He's 5th in rush yards per game.

He's averaging 4.8 YPC, which ranks 11th among RB's, and 1st among RB's with at least 100 carries. 

He is a star... but he's also a Bengal, so he's under the radar. If Mixon were a Giant, we'd be sick of hearing about how great he is.

Funny you mention NY as I live in southwestern CT about 45 minutes from the city and have to hear about Barkley daily.

And right now he deserves the hype. He’s carrying a terrible team on his back and is well on his way to 2000 yards combined running and receiving. Nixon’s no where near that I think the pace you posted above is also combined not just rushing. I think Mixon could do the same if asked but we have more weapons for dalton to spread around the ball. Outside obj the giants have no one and Eli is terrible.

Compared to zek and Gurley the overall rushing numbers aren’t even close but again we look at how many carriers they get and how can you compete with that. No point in grinding Mixon into the ground because we don’t have to. Cowboys don’t have a choice because they have less weapons than NY somehow and Geoff’s suppose to be good but if he he is why does gurley have 200 touches already. So take gurley out of the conversation cause he’s shaping up to be a Tomlinson/Peterson once in a generation guy. It’s not fair to compare.

But after all this we only have to look within the division to find what I think is the most fair comparison and unfortunately as always it’s in Pittsburgh. They have a qb and more than one talented receiver and good tight ends. They can spread the ball around. And yet some nobody most of us had never heard of previously is out rushing and receiving Joe Mixon. How the craps is Conner and how is he right there third in the league in rushing and with more than twice as many yards as Mixon receiving?

I’m not tying to say I don’t think he’s doing great because he is and we’re damn lucky to have him. And I know I’m asking too much. Watching the way he approaches the line and turns nothing into something is fun to see. Knowing he opens up the passing game because he’s so unpredictable for defenses is a bonus for us. I just wanted a little more. I wanted at this point in the season something eye popping enough the national media couldn’t ignore it.

Please don’t take any of this to mean I’m ungrateful for what we have or what he does for the team. It’s more just being greedy and wanting that little bit extra.

[motoarch]

(10-31-2018, 09:22 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Its a crime that Mixon only has 115 yards receiving.

With our te situation as it is and not having a reliable third receiver develop I think this will change in the second half.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-31-2018, 09:34 AM)Wyche Wrote: 4 INTs were tipped balls.....two were a WR quitting on routes though.  Cam Newton gets MVP praise (actually won it) with sub 60% completion rate.  We've dropped some balls too.  The eye test tells me that this season, the stats haven't told the whole story.  He's played very well in the 1st half of the games with the exception of Miami and KC.  

The QB is also doing better on those broken plays......

Better on the broken plays and better on TDs. It would just be nice if he could get the completion percentage up and there weren't so many "reasons" for why he still lingers around average (to below average this year). It's his 8th year and there's still only one season (13 games) where he was easily above average. 

[Shake n Blake]

(10-31-2018, 09:34 AM)motoarch Wrote: Funny you mention NY as I live in southwestern CT about 45 minutes from the city and have to hear about Barkley daily.

And right now he deserves the hype.  He’s carrying a terrible team on his back and is well on his way to 2000 yards combined running and receiving.  Nixon’s no where near that I think the pace you posted above is also combined not just rushing.  I think Mixon could do the same if asked but we have more weapons for dalton to spread around the ball.  Outside obj the giants have no one and Eli is terrible.

Compared to zek and Gurley the overall rushing numbers aren’t even close but again we look at how many carriers they get and how can you compete with that.  No point in grinding Mixon into the ground because we don’t have to.  Cowboys don’t have a choice because they have less weapons than NY somehow and Geoff’s suppose to be good but if he he is why does gurley have 200 touches already.  So take gurley out of the conversation cause he’s shaping up to be a Tomlinson/Peterson once in a generation guy.  It’s not fair to compare.

But after all this we only have to look within the division to find what I think is the most fair comparison and unfortunately as always it’s in Pittsburgh.  They have a qb and more than one talented receiver and good tight ends.  They can spread the ball around.  And yet some nobody most of us had never heard of previously is out rushing and receiving Joe Mixon.  How the craps is Conner and how is he right there third in the league in rushing and with more than twice as many yards as Mixon receiving?

I’m not tying to say I don’t think he’s doing great because he is and we’re damn lucky to have him.  And I know I’m asking too much.  Watching the way he approaches the line and turns nothing into something is fun to see.  Knowing he opens up the passing game because he’s so unpredictable for defenses is a bonus for us.  I just wanted a little more.  I wanted at this point in the season something eye popping enough the national media couldn’t ignore it.

Please don’t take any of this to mean I’m ungrateful for what we have or what he does for the team.  It’s more just being greedy and wanting that little bit extra.

Nope. Mixon is averaging 84.8 rush yards per game and 19.2 receiving yards. That would total out to 1357 rush yards and 307 receiving yards for 16 games. Or 1664 combined yards, which is outstanding. Barkley is actually averaging less rush yards than Mixon, but is HEAVILY involved in the pass game, which we've failed to do with Mixon this year, despite him having excellent hands.

To the second bolded, Mixon is averaging the same amount of rush (just to be clear) yards as Zeke, so I'm not sure why you think they're not close. And again...Mixon is #1 in YPC among RB's with 100+ carries. That includes all the "star" backs.

I want more action for Mixon in the passing game, but lets be honest...if Mixon had a couple hundred more receiving yards (putting him on a 2000 combined yardage pace for 16 games) do you really think the media would pay attention then? They aren't paying attention to anything Bengal unless it's a playoff win or a dirty Burfict hit. 

Just be happy knowing we have a back who is top 5 in this league. AJ Green wasn't wrong when he compared Mixon to the top backs. Just stop caring what the media thinks. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-31-2018, 12:19 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Better on the broken plays and better on TDs. It would just be nice if he could get the completion percentage up and there weren't so many "reasons" for why he still lingers around average (to below average this year). It's his 8th year and there's still only one season (13 games) where he was easily above average. 

I get what you're saying.....and I would say he was average to a little below it the last two seasons.  This year though, by watching the games, I gotta say there is marked improvement.  The reasons I pointed out aren't excuses, it's what happened.  There were two balls that hit WRs in the numbers that were INTs at CAR alone.  Then you had the two that were aimed at Ross.....I can see putting one on him, and one on Ross.  Without doing a lot of studying, I wonder where the completion percentage lies without that outlier of a game alone. AJ had a game where he dropped two or three that were right on him, very uncharacteristic.  Cody Core has a couple that hit him right in the hands.....and there were the other two balls that WRs should have caught that wound up INTs that I mentioned as well.  Ross has dropped his share, and then there are the ones he missed as well. Really, the only bad game by him I've watched is the KC game.  I just don't see a lot of "WTF was he throwing that one?" so far this season.  The KC INT was a bad decision, he got baited by the DB on that one for sure.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-31-2018, 12:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I want more action for Mixon in the passing game, but lets be honest...if Mixon had a couple hundred more receiving yards (putting him on a 2000 combined yardage pace for 16 games) do you really think the media would pay attention then? They aren't paying attention to anything Bengal unless it's a playoff win or a dirty Burfict hit. 

This is exactly right.  Mixon needs more involved in the passing game. I will say this though, the screens have been the lone criticism I would have of Dalton this season.  Seems to me he has had an issue of leading guys too far on several occasions, making them adjust, or outright missing them.  I haven't looked at any numbers, but that's what I've taken from watching.....

[sandwedge]

(10-31-2018, 09:34 AM)motoarch Wrote: Funny you mention NY as I live in southwestern CT about 45 minutes from the city and have to hear about Barkley daily.

And right now he deserves the hype.  He’s carrying a terrible team on his back and is well on his way to 2000 yards combined running and receiving.  Nixon’s no where near that I think the pace you posted above is also combined not just rushing.  I think Mixon could do the same if asked but we have more weapons for dalton to spread around the ball.  Outside obj the giants have no one and Eli is terrible.

Compared to zek and Gurley the overall rushing numbers aren’t even close but again we look at how many carriers they get and how can you compete with that.  No point in grinding Mixon into the ground because we don’t have to.  Cowboys don’t have a choice because they have less weapons than NY somehow and Geoff’s suppose to be good but if he he is why does gurley have 200 touches already.  So take gurley out of the conversation cause he’s shaping up to be a Tomlinson/Peterson once in a generation guy.  It’s not fair to compare.

But after all this we only have to look within the division to find what I think is the most fair comparison and unfortunately as always it’s in Pittsburgh.  They have a qb and more than one talented receiver and good tight ends.  They can spread the ball around.  And yet some nobody most of us had never heard of previously is out rushing and receiving Joe Mixon.  How the craps is Conner and how is he right there third in the league in rushing and with more than twice as many yards as Mixon receiving?

I’m not tying to say I don’t think he’s doing great because he is and we’re damn lucky to have him.  And I know I’m asking too much.  Watching the way he approaches the line and turns nothing into something is fun to see.  Knowing he opens up the passing game because he’s so unpredictable for defenses is a bonus for us.  I just wanted a little more.  I wanted at this point in the season something eye popping enough the national media couldn’t ignore it.

Please don’t take any of this to mean I’m ungrateful for what we have or what he does for the team.  It’s more just being greedy and wanting that little bit extra.

I am only responded to the paragraph about Conner. I think it's because he runs behind a very good o-line. I could be wrong, but I think that line has been together for quite sometime and when it comes to run blocking they pretty much don't have to think about what they are doing, they just do it.