Offense (Deep-Dive Analysis Using PFF Ratings)

[THE PISTONS]

(11-05-2018, 03:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Good stuff Pistons. The Westerman/Redmond comparison to me still really stands out. I honestly have never
understood why Redmond is starting over Westerman who is clearly better in every way. I loved getting Pollack
but i don't like how he has handled this. Just start the better players that is all i have ever asked.

This reminds me of PA.

Yes! Starting Westerman is one no-brainer move we can make.

I like how Pollack turned the line into being more aggressive. I think Alexander's scheme may have been too  antiquated. It's crazy to think he was here for so long. The Cowboys saw enough after half a season.

Pollack made our line somewhat better, but I think the raw talent level is just missing still. Guys like Ced and Fisher may not be savable.

Note: Pollack's lines in Dallas were basically loaded for his tenure there. Sure he should get credit for developing them, but it's an apples and oranges scenario.

[impactplaya]

Erickson has no business getting reps
at WR.
what Lazor and Marvin see him is beyond.
oh yeah hes a hard worker.
screw that.  I want results and production.
the guy at NxDonalds works hard on the grill.that doesnt mean he can cook at Ruth Chris Steakhouse.

[THE PISTONS]

Preseason seems like a fools gold for evaluating WR's. We thought we had a bunch of dynamic one and none other than the Big 2 are producing.

I'd really like them to put Tate in games. He doesn't have speed but he has size and can make contested catches. He may be better in games than in practice.

[fredtoast]

(11-05-2018, 03:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The Westerman/Redmond comparison to me still really stands out. I honestly have never
understood why Redmond is starting over Westerman who is clearly better in every way. I loved getting Pollack
but i don't like how he has handled this. Just start the better players that is all i have ever asked.

This reminds me of PA.

Pollack knows a hundred times more than you do about O-line talent.  You have no clue if Westerman is better than Redmond.

[McC]

(11-05-2018, 11:43 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Wow. We're seeing things exactly.

I think if you told Bengals Management before the year that we'd have one of the youngest teams in the NFL, a lot of key injuries, and finish with 8-9 wins and have a shot at 10 and a Wild Card that they'd take it.

The thing is, the gap between where we're at now and being a team that threatens to win in the playoffs is fairly far.

We need Glenn to step up and play way better. We need Price to develop. We need Boling to get his rating back up.

We need more sack finishes from the D-Line.

We need Burfict and Brown to regain form.

We need some CB's to step up and get their ratings up.

Or, we need to continue upgrading personnel in the offseason.

I've felt all along that there was just too much ground to cover in one year going from where we were last year.  Going from that to a serious playoff contender was a whole lot of ground to cover.  If everybody or even most everybody stayed healthy, maybe we had a shot.  But that didn't happen.  It stretched the roster too thin.   And if any of the Big Four(AJ, Geno, AD and Carlos) went down, that might be too much to overcome.  I guess we'll see.

But I always thought we were still going to be a year away no matter what.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-05-2018, 04:52 PM)McC Wrote: I've felt all along that there was just too much ground to cover in one year going from where we were last year.  Going from that to a serious playoff contender was a whole lot of ground to cover.  If everybody or even most everybody stayed healthy, maybe we had a shot.  But that didn't happen.  It stretched the roster too thin.   And if any of the Big Four(AJ, Geno, AD and Carlos) went down, that might be too much to overcome.  I guess we'll see.

But I always thought we were still going to be a year away no matter what.

I feel the same. I don't feel negative about the current team. I actually feel like they're overachieving in the Standings and setting a fairly solid base for the future.

We'll need to continue to build on that, but to have a shot at 10 wins and a playoff spot at this point in the year is great.

Now, the defense has been disappointing. No way to sugar coat that.

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-05-2018, 03:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Try being a Bengals fan living about an hour away from Pittsburgh. Where I work like 90% of people are Steelers fans.

Horrible lol atleast bengals made me a little happier today bringing up tate

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-05-2018, 03:16 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Erickson has no business getting reps
at WR.
what Lazor and Marvin see him is beyond.
oh yeah hes a hard worker.
screw that.  I want results and production.
the guy at NxDonalds works hard on the grill.that doesnt mean he can cook at Ruth Chris Steakhouse.

Totally agree!! I thought he showed more at receiver then returner last year,but this year hes just out there,and we got phillips who should be returning. The guy who can run tds back.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-05-2018, 08:52 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Horrible lol atleast bengals made me a little happier today bringing up tate

I'm all for playing Tate...but I don't expect much. If there's one thing preseason shows every year it's that guys who look good against 3rd stringers usually don't do anything in games. Same with practicing without pads.

Remember all the videos of Ross beating our defensive backs from minicamp? He has what 3 catches on the year?

[The Caped Crusader]

For being terrible, Dalton looks pretty decent this year. I'm stunned.

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-05-2018, 10:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm all for playing Tate...but I don't expect much. If there's one thing preseason shows every year it's that guys who look good against 3rd stringers usually don't do anything in games. Same with practicing without pads.

Remember all the videos of Ross beating our defensive backs from minicamp? He has what 3 catches on the year?

No i dont really, i just remember a couple out of training camp and one in preseason. Another thing with ross is dalton doesnt even target him. Theres no play designs specifically for ross. Ross is another subject because i think it is on him and its also on the coaching staff for not giving him targets,but he looks timid,small, and injury prone getting hurt by running. He got hurt running his 40. I dont trust him. 

Ive heard quite a few people say they dont expect nothing out of Tate. Its not like im predicting him being a superstar like aj green or something,i want him to have a role on the offense and be a 3rd or 4th receiver. Ive liked tate since preseason, he brings what eifert brought,a big bodied guy who wsill go up in the air and get it,hes bigger then most defensive backs and linebackers. Ive been doing my research and he played x,y,and z receiver positions. I have no idea why he hasnt been activated already. You can even try him at tight end. Its like putting a different version of eifert out there,you can put him in all spots. If he gets a chance id bet anyone he makes plays for us.

And for preseason , who was really scoring? Even the starters had a hard time making touchdowns. Tate came in that bears game at the very end and he was the target the whole drive all the way to score the winning td.

[Goalpost]

I was listening to Lance this week who had Bengals RB coach Kyle Caskey on. When asked which player on offense was an unsung or overlooked player, his answer was Redmond. Despite the penalties, the Bengals remain high on him. Whether it is his attitude or leadership, or toughness, or talent also. The Bengals like this dude.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-06-2018, 02:02 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: No i dont really, i just remember a couple out of training camp and one in preseason. Another thing with ross is dalton doesnt even target him. Theres no play designs specifically for ross. Ross is another subject because i think it is on him and its also on the coaching staff for not giving him targets,but he looks timid,small, and injury prone getting hurt by running. He got hurt running his 40. I dont trust him. 

Ive heard quite a few people say they dont expect nothing out of Tate. Its not like im predicting him being a superstar like aj green or something,i want him to have a role on the offense and be a 3rd or 4th receiver. Ive liked tate since preseason, he brings what eifert brought,a big bodied guy who wsill go up in the air and get it,hes bigger then most defensive backs and linebackers. Ive been doing my research and he played x,y,and z receiver positions. I have no idea why he hasnt been activated already. You can even try him at tight end. Its like putting a different version of eifert out there,you can put him in all spots. If he gets a chance id bet anyone he makes plays for us.

And for preseason , who was really scoring? Even the starters had a hard time making touchdowns. Tate came in that bears game at the very end and he was the target the whole drive all the way to score the winning td.

Well you figure, we should pass for 250 yards. Boyd won't get them all...so some of the yards will go to other WR's. So someone is going to put up some numbers in this game.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-06-2018, 10:26 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I was listening to Lance this week who had Bengals RB coach Kyle Caskey on. When asked which player on offense was an unsung or overlooked player, his answer was Redmond. Despite the penalties, the Bengals remain high on him. Whether it is his attitude or leadership, or toughness, or talent also. The Bengals like this dude.

Yikes

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-06-2018, 10:26 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I was listening to Lance this week who had Bengals RB coach Kyle Caskey on.  When asked which player on offense was an unsung or overlooked player, his answer was Redmond.  Despite the penalties, the Bengals remain high on him. Whether it is his attitude or leadership, or toughness, or talent also.  The Bengals like this dude.

I remember Price talking about what a beast he was and saying something like "when he gets it together he's gonna kill somebody", words to that effect.

He must be a hell of a hard worker and good team mate ? Hope it translates to the field sooner than later.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-05-2018, 03:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes! Starting Westerman is one no-brainer move we can make.

I like how Pollack turned the line into being more aggressive. I think Alexander's scheme may have been too  antiquated. It's crazy to think he was here for so long. The Cowboys saw enough after half a season.

Pollack made our line somewhat better, but I think the raw talent level is just missing still. Guys like Ced and Fisher may not be savable.

Note: Pollack's lines in Dallas were basically loaded for his tenure there. Sure he should get credit for developing them, but it's an apples and oranges scenario.

I agree, love how Pollack overall has turned this O-line around into an okay unit in less than a year.

Quite the accomplishment but Redmond has been bad, think giving Westerman a shot at RG or Price could save
our season as long as the Defense starts to improve. Pollack did have a stacked Line in Dallas but he has shown
enough here with our poor players that he is a definate improvement over PA.

(11-05-2018, 03:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Pollack knows a hundred times more than you do about O-line talent.  You have no clue if Westerman is better than Redmond.

Of course he does, never said he doesn't. But Redmond is at a rate of giving up the most pressures of all time by
a Guard in a season! Westerman has always played well everytime he has gotten a shot. You have no clue that
Westerman wouldn't be better than Redmond Fred.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-05-2018, 04:52 PM)McC Wrote: I've felt all along that there was just too much ground to cover in one year going from where we were last year.  Going from that to a serious playoff contender was a whole lot of ground to cover.  If everybody or even most everybody stayed healthy, maybe we had a shot.  But that didn't happen.  It stretched the roster too thin.   And if any of the Big Four(AJ, Geno, AD and Carlos) went down, that might be too much to overcome.  I guess we'll see.

But I always thought we were still going to be a year away no matter what.

This, and....

(11-05-2018, 05:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel the same. I don't feel negative about the current team. I actually feel like they're overachieving in the Standings and setting a fairly solid base for the future.

We'll need to continue to build on that, but to have a shot at 10 wins and a playoff spot at this point in the year is great.

Now, the defense has been disappointing. No way to sugar coat that.

....this.  I had no idea the D would be this bad, but aside from that, it's hard to be negative about what they've done up until now.  Like you guys, I think it takes adding a couple more missing pieces to become a legit contender.  They need to have another good offseason to get there.  Hopefully they get it done again.

[McC]

(11-05-2018, 05:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel the same. I don't feel negative about the current team. I actually feel like they're overachieving in the Standings and setting a fairly solid base for the future.

We'll need to continue to build on that, but to have a shot at 10 wins and a playoff spot at this point in the year is great.

Now, the defense has been disappointing. No way to sugar coat that.

That's the fact, Jack.

[The Caped Crusader]

(11-06-2018, 11:34 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well you figure, we should pass for 250 yards. Boyd won't get them all...so some of the yards will go to other WR's. So someone is going to put up some numbers in this game.

I felt the same probability against the KC Chiefs. While they did make some improvements a week or two prior to us playing them, everyone predicted a shootout or at least a ton of yards. The offense wilted, that's with a full arsenal.

I wouldn't be surprised to see similar struggles against another bad defense.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-06-2018, 04:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: This, and....


....this.  I had no idea the D would be this bad, but aside from that, it's hard to be negative about what they've done up until now.  Like you guys, I think it takes adding a couple more missing pieces to become a legit contender.  They need to have another good offseason to get there.  Hopefully they get it done again.

It's without any doubt been the shock of the season for me. I fully expected this D to be top 15 and figured top 10 wasn't any stretch.

Boy was I wrong !