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**GreenCornBengal** · 11-19-2018, 09:41 PM

The Bengals Defense has been completely neutered since the 2015 playoff loss. They were first targeted for any chippiness and received excessive flagging for the most minor of issues. They then lost big from the rule changes that didn't fit their playstyle.

This defense thrived when they were a little bit nasty. They made plays out of knocking peoples heads off over the middle (Reggie Nelson, Iloka, Burfict, even Williams has had to change his play entirely). We are missing the old Bufict, and even the diva attitudes of Pacman Jones. I didn't condone their behavior at times, but boy do i sure miss it now. There is a reason teams are running slants and in-routes on us every other play. We are too damn scared to even make a hit over the middle at the fear of flagging or suspension. The Bengals defense used to be synonymous with chippy, edgy, hard-nosed, blue-collar, gritty, rough, nasty, crafty but now..... they won't even attempt to get anywhere near that type of play.

Our 2015 Rottweiler just wants to lay in his bed and get hand fed milk-bones all day.

**bengalsturntup926** · 11-19-2018, 09:49 PM

Yeah i wouldnt think id actually miss burfict but you are right. We had some big hitters. With nelson,burfict ,shawn williams. Attitude with adam jones. And a d line who got after you. Now its crumbling apart it seems. Vontaze isnt the same, no nelson or adam jones. I think our d line gets held most the time. Weak linebacker unit. Dre isnt that good. Bates is a light weight.

***bengalfan74*** · 11-19-2018, 10:04 PM

I think there's some truth in what you're saying but we still need better/new coaches and some serious upgrades in players.

**THE PISTONS** · 11-19-2018, 10:35 PM

(11-19-2018, 10:04 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think there's some truth in what you're saying but we still need better/new coaches and some serious upgrades in players.

The thing is, when you don't use free agency a lot...it takes several years to fill them through the drafts. But, you lose guys to free agency too which hurts.

**bengals73** · 11-19-2018, 10:35 PM

I've been thinking this for a while. This defense really hasn't been the same since Reggie Nelson left.

***bengalfan74*** · 11-19-2018, 10:55 PM

(11-19-2018, 10:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The thing is, when you don't use free agency a lot...it takes several years to fill them through the drafts. But, you lose guys to free agency too which hurts.

Oh I get it.

You have to build a team thru the draft, HAVE TO !

But you also have to fill gaps and replace misses with top tier FA's when it's time, when you have a decent core and are primed for a run. I understand. Problem is MB doesn't and most likely for like the 3rd time under ML that time has passed again.

**J24** · 11-19-2018, 11:00 PM

Chipiness is overrated; what we miss is discpline

**corpjet** · 11-20-2018, 09:37 AM

(11-19-2018, 11:00 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Chipiness is overrated; what we miss is discpline

Agreed, who can honestly say they miss Pac Mans immaturity and his constantly getting beat on double moves? This defense has no leader, no swagger and no balls.

Its starts at the top.

**I_C_DeadPeople** · 11-20-2018, 11:02 AM

(11-20-2018, 09:37 AM)corpjet Wrote: Agreed, who can honestly say they miss Pac Mans immaturity and his constantly getting beat on double moves? This defense has no leader, no swagger and no balls.

Its starts at the top.

This team won't have any balls until Katie is running it...oh wait...

**Nicomo Cosca** · 11-20-2018, 12:02 PM

(11-20-2018, 09:37 AM)corpjet Wrote: Agreed, who can honestly say they miss Pac Mans immaturity and his constantly getting beat on double moves? This defense has no leader, no swagger and no balls.

Its starts at the top.

I think we miss Pacman quite a bit actually.

***bfine32*** · 11-20-2018, 07:59 PM

(11-20-2018, 12:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I think we miss Pacman quite a bit actually.

Miss Pacman (I see what you did)

BTW, he's available if we want him:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/20/pacman-jones-says-hes-done-in-denver/

Quote:Adam “Pacman” Jones is on the way out in Denver.

Quote:Jones posted a message on Instagram suggesting he’s been released by the Broncos.
“Well Denver it was good, thanks for the opportunity!!!! On to the next,” Jones wrote.

**KillerGoose** · 11-20-2018, 08:21 PM

I think this teams window has firmly closed and we are closer to witnessing a complete rebuild. With AJ and Andy on the wrong side of 30, along with the whiffs in the draft recently, this boat is taking on water. There are a lot of holes to fill right now.

***Wyche'sWarrior*** · 11-20-2018, 08:45 PM

(11-20-2018, 12:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I think we miss Pacman quite a bit actually.

We miss Pacman from say....2013-2015. The latter Pacman, not so much.

I agree we need some swagger out there, and the neutering of the game does affect this defense quite a bit. The main issue is playing scrubs at LB right now. They're just not very good.

**Nicomo Cosca** · 11-20-2018, 09:52 PM

(11-20-2018, 08:45 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: We miss Pacman from say....2013-2015. The latter Pacman, not so much.

I agree we need some swagger out there, and the neutering of the game does affect this defense quite a bit. The main issue is playing scrubs at LB right now. They're just not very good.

Agree the LBers are the main issue, but the dline should be getting plenty of criticism right now as well. They’re not getting to QB’s nearly enough, and are giving up ridiculous running yds.

***Wyche'sWarrior*** · 11-20-2018, 10:02 PM

(11-20-2018, 09:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Agree the LBers are the main issue, but the dline should be getting plenty of criticism right now as well. They’re not getting to QB’s nearly enough, and are giving up ridiculous running yds.

Agree there too. The defense is such a mess. One thing, a lot of our opponents have been getting the ball out very quickly to neutralize the rush, and the backers aren't covering ANYONE over the middle, making it that much easier.....but that doesn't excuse the running. Glasgow was playing well, Willis is not. Lawson was playing ok, and Hubbard is ok, but I think the rigors of the NFL is catching up to the rook. Billings is kinda just there most of the time.

***Go Cards*** · 11-21-2018, 02:03 AM

(11-20-2018, 07:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Miss Pacman (I see what you did)

BTW, he's available if we want him:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/20/pacman-jones-says-hes-done-in-denver/

Please do not bring him back

***Go Cards*** · 11-21-2018, 02:05 AM

The D-line is missing Peko more than most would like to admit as well.

His spot did not get filled adequately even though Billings is starting to play somewhat better.

***bfine32*** · 11-21-2018, 02:46 AM

(11-21-2018, 02:03 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Please do not bring him back

He might be handy in the Denver game.

**sonofstat** · 11-21-2018, 06:07 AM

(11-19-2018, 11:00 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Chipiness is overrated; what we miss is discpline

Agreed.

Posturing and playing the big man when you're getting run over at will and shipping yards at a historically bad level is not going to fool anyone.

I'd settle for Burfict being available for his first full season in 6 years and consistently contributing rather than a few cameo appearances which seem to generate more noise , penalties, off field distraction due to his 'chippiness'

**Sled21** · 11-21-2018, 09:18 AM

(11-20-2018, 12:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I think we miss Pacman quite a bit actually.

When everyone was yelling for them to cut Jones, I said then that we would miss him because he seemed to be the only guy in the locker room who really gave a damn about winning. Hell, bring him back and let him return punts and fire up the locker room.

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