The other side to the Cody Core drop on 4th and 3.

[impactplaya]

its been seen that Cody Core is as reliable as Helen Keller with a blindfold on trying to catch a football.
on that 4th and 3 play vs the Ravens...Im.sure Core was not Andys 1st read.
but I.think equally disturbing is that Boyd Ross and whoever else was unable to seperate from their defender on that given play.
A disturbing trend Ive seen with this offense this year is the lack of the vertical big play.and this was before Green got hurt.
now is it the scheme ...pass protection...lack if comittment from the running game or lack of downfield speed
why these WRs cant get open?
if this offense cant hit 40 yd plus plays downfield,then basically DBs can just sit on routes and close throwing windows real quick.
thoughts?

[HarleyDog]

The OL.

[RASCAL]

(11-23-2018, 12:42 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: The OL.

plain pure and simple! Props!

[bengalsturntup926]

The only guy they really send deep is john ross. And everytime they do it looks like the corner is blanketing him and being more physical because Ross is small. They need to do more with ross,more shorter stuff and motions. Hes so quick but has no catches in short space fthis year,does that make any sense? They dont even send green out long like they used too,all his targets and catches are intermediate throws.

Also on that core throw ,he wasnt open till the last second either he kind of had to push off. It was designed to go to him fast. Ive watched it over and over, while andy is taking his drop back hes looking center, soon as he stops he turns and fires to core. It was just a dumb play call. It was not a play call where dalton was told to drop back and scan the field.

[Brimey]

Boyd was essentially tripled. Then play call was horrendous even if Core was open because a good OC knows his personnel and their capabilities. Watching what Nagy did with the Bears backup QB today puts another nail in my Lazor coffin. Not impressed with what's he's done. He doesn't seem to get players in a position that best suits their individual skill sets

[BengalsBong]

Don't forget the second down and 3 two plays before the Core play that they threw 30 or 40 yards downfield. That was basically a throw away play since we have not hit deep plays all year. If we don't score on this drive the game is over and you are throwing plays away.

[Catmandude123]

(11-23-2018, 12:21 AM)impactplaya Wrote: its been seen that Cody Core is as reliable as Helen Keller with a blindfold on trying to catch a football.
on that 4th and 3 play vs the Ravens...Im.sure Core was not Andys 1st read.
but I.think equally disturbing is that Boyd Ross and whoever else was unable to seperate from their defender on that given play.
A disturbing trend Ive seen with this offense this year is the lack of the vertical big play.and this was before Green got hurt.
now is it the scheme ...pass protection...lack if comittment from the running game or lack of downfield speed
why these WRs cant get open?
if this offense cant hit 40 yd plus plays downfield,then basically DBs can just sit on routes and close throwing windows real quick.
thoughts?

As I watch other teams who are great on offense I see they are adept at using innovating plays such as the pick play to get their receivers open. It may be that the Bengals don't push the envelope enough on offense. If we used these same plays we would probably be flagged but it would make it more obvious when other teams do it to us ie. Pittsburgh. We need to put in a young o-cord. who has an innovative mind instead of all the retreads we constantly hire.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-23-2018, 02:44 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: The only guy they really send deep is john ross. And everytime they do it looks like the corner is blanketing him and being more physical because Ross is small. They need to do more with ross,more shorter stuff and motions. Hes so quick but has no catches in short space fthis year,does that make any sense? They dont even send green out long like they used too,all his targets and catches are intermediate throws.

Also on that core throw ,he wasnt open till the last second either he kind of had to push off. It was designed to go to him fast. Ive watched it over and over, while andy is taking his drop back hes looking center, soon as he stops he turns and fires to core. It was just a dumb play call. It was not a play call where dalton was told to drop back and scan the field.

It was definitely the hot read.  That said, I saw clips of the All 22, and no one else was open.  Boyd was doubled, Ross, Uzo, and Gio were blanketed.  They knew who to force the throw to.  Too bad our staff didn't see that and put Core out there.

[*bengalfan74*]

The only way we have any hope of getting long pass plays off is play action on account of the putrid pass blocking. The only problem is in order for play action to work with any consistency you have to establish the run and we can't because of the horrible run blocking.

This is in no way a defense for Lazor. I believe he lacks true innovation skills and can't really scheme around our problems. I'm not saying this should be a top shelf Super Bowl caliber O. It's just that a really good OC could do better than Lazor has IMHO. We faced a few of the very bad D's thus far this season and still fell flat on our face !

[jfkbengals]

(11-23-2018, 12:04 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The only way we have any hope of getting long pass plays off is play action on account of the putrid pass blocking. The only problem is in order for play action to work with any consistency you have to establish the run and we can't because of the horrible run blocking.

This is in no way a defense for Lazor. I believe he lacks true innovation skills and can't really scheme around our problems. I'm not saying this should be a top shelf Super Bowl caliber O. It's just that a really good OC could do better than Lazor has IMHO. We faced a few of the very bad O's thus far this season and still fell flat on our face !

I agree and disagree with your assessment.

Where I disagree is your belief that he can't scheme around our problems.  It seems to me that he already has, and did so early on in the season.  Now it is clear how we have to schematically protect the oline, so defenses are prepared to stop it, and thus shut down our offense.  That is why it is so imperative to have Green in the lineup, as he is one of those rare specimens that can still beat you even though you know what is coming.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(11-23-2018, 09:11 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: As I watch other teams who are great on offense I see they are adept at using innovating plays such as the pick play to get their receivers open. It may be that the Bengals don't push the envelope enough on offense. If we used these same plays we would probably be flagged but it would make it more obvious when other teams do it to us ie. Pittsburgh. We need to put in a young o-cord. who has an innovative mind instead of all the retreads we constantly hire.

Push the envelope? ML leaves the envelope in his desk drawer on game day. 

Look back to successful Bengals teams and you will see good OL's and innovative offenses. But Mikey has forgotten that.

[ezekiel23]

(11-23-2018, 03:56 AM)Brimey Wrote: Boyd was essentially tripled. Then play call was horrendous even if Core was open because a good OC knows his personnel and their capabilities. Watching what Nagy did with the Bears backup QB today puts another nail in my Lazor coffin. Not impressed with what's he's done. He doesn't seem to get players in a position that best suits their individual skill sets

This is the main problem I have with Lazor, he doesn’t use his players to their skill set. Ross is primarily a slot receiver. He is very quick. On the deep balls he doesn’t tracked the ball well. And I still don’t understand why Auden Tate isn’t targeted some,at least in the red zone.Much rather have him than Core.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-23-2018, 12:27 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I agree and disagree with your assessment.

Where I disagree is your belief that he can't scheme around our problems.  It seems to me that he already has, and did so early on in the season.  Now it is clear how we have to schematically protect the oline, so defenses are prepared to stop it, and thus shut down our offense.  That is why it is so imperative to have Green in the lineup, as he is one of those rare specimens that can still beat you even though you know what is coming.

I agree to a point. Lazor has done some stuff that's helped. But not really to the degree that a good OC could do. If you take a good hard look at our offensive numbers they're pretty bad ! And just the way the league is going favoring offense and then add in some of the lower ranked D's we've played we've been hovering right around horrible on O except for a couple first halves !

I get it nobody can work miracles with this offense given the horrific offensive line. But I still say much more could be done. Enough to be a true contender ? I doubt it.

The other kinda break I give Lazor is it's hard to gauge just how much influence ML has over the play calling/scheming/game planning ?

Having said all of that I still don't think Laor, even with a decent line, is the answer at OC.

[Millhouse]

(11-23-2018, 06:46 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: Don't forget the second down and 3 two plays before the Core play that they threw 30 or 40 yards downfield. That was basically a throw away play since we have not hit deep plays all year. If we don't score on this drive the game is over and you are throwing plays away.

One of the worst calls of the season, if not the worst. Quickly followed up by leaving Mixon on the bench on 3rd and 4th down and 3.

Thing is, I don't have a problem going deep there, but only if Andy saw him open and then attempted it. But it wasn't even that. It was basically just heave it down the sideline with the hopes he would be open instead as it was predetermined he would throw it no matter what.