{The Ultimate ANDY DALTON Mega Thread}

[Au165]

(11-26-2018, 03:38 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Your comments are asinine and show an extreme lack of knowledge.  Daltons value isn't going down if he doesn't play. Teams know what Dalton brings to the table. If he doesn't play it won't hurt his value at all.

Cutting him won't cost the Bengals any money and trading him isn't that easy because not a lot of teams don't want to eat 16 million for a qb that they would rate as their possible backup.  I made the assumption it would be hard to get any value for Dalton because of how teams view him as a player. 

If he can be traded then fine try and get a second or third rounder for him. You miss the main point of the statement . We need to go in a different direction with this team and it starts with the qb.

It's not as if he gets the starting spot automatically for a lot of teams. I guarantee you most teams view Dalton as a Fitzpatrick type of player. 

Secondly, who says to bench him, theirs a chance he got a serious enough injury that it'll keep him out for the last five games of the season. 

If a team benches their starting QB for a back up the value drops because you don't believe in what you are selling. If I work for Apple and use a Samsung what does it say about what I'm selling? If he doesn't play for injury there is no value lost, if you bench him for a back up he takes a hit...it's that simple. Especially when the back up is a former practice squad player lol.

Cutting him is still stupid. $16 Million for a starting QB is the least of any non starting QB in the NFL. The Redskins gave a a 3rd and Kyle Fuller (a solid young CB) for Alex Smith who had a more expensive contract.

I missed nothing, Driskell isn't the answer and any plan revolving around a possibility he could be is ill advised. No one is comparing Dalton to Fitzpatrick, it's laughable to compare them.

Report is it is a sprained thumb, could miss a week or two but not season ending. Hence why I said if it pleases the "back up QB  fan club" hold him back two weeks then bring him back in to close out the season. 

[wolverine515151]

(11-26-2018, 03:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: If a team benches their starting QB for a back up the value drops because you don't believe in what you are selling. If I work for Apple and use a Samsung what does it say about what I'm selling? If he doesn't play for injury there is no value lost, if you bench him for a back up he takes a hit...it's that simple. Especially when the back up is a former practice squad player lol.

Cutting him is still stupid. $16 Million for a starting QB is the least of any non starting QB in the NFL. The Redskins gave a a 3rd and Kyle Fuller (a solid young CB) for Alex Smith who had a more expensive contract.

I missed nothing, Driskell isn't the answer and any plan revolving around a possibility he could be is ill advised. No one is comparing Dalton to Fitzpatrick, it's laughable to compare them.

Report is it is a sprained thumb, could miss a week or two but not season ending. Hence why I said if it pleases the "back up QB  fan club" hold him back two weeks then bring him back in to close out the season. 

Obviously its implied I would cut him only we cant get and value for him. I made the assumption its more likely he can't be traded because of his salary and how gm's view him as a player. Keep in mind when you make stupid comments that it isn't how you view Dalton its how other teams view Dalton. 

Your'e making an assumption he's out two weeks. Why even take a chance bringing Dalton back and having him get a more serious injury which would then hurt his value even more.Then the Bengals almost guaranteed will not be able to get any value.

[Au165]

(11-26-2018, 03:56 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Obviously its implied I would cut him only we cant get and value for him. I made the assumption its more likely he can't be traded because of his salary and how gm's view him as a player. Keep in mind when you make stupid comments that it isn't how you view Dalton its how other teams view Dalton. 

Your'e making an assumption he's out two weeks. Why even take a chance bringing Dalton back and having him get a more serious injury which would then hurt his value even more.Then the Bengals almost guaranteed will not be able to get any value.

In a league where Mike Glennon got signed to be a starter....twice, and Sam Bradford keeps getting jobs he will be valued plenty highly enough. Keenum makes more than Dalton and Keenum is not better than Dalton.

The report I saw from a sports medical personality was two weeks. Also not an injury that should get worse with use, more of a pain threshold issue. 

[Big Boss]

(11-26-2018, 03:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: The report I saw from a sports medical personality was two weeks. 

It's the Bengals.  Go ahead and make it a month (i.e. the rest of the season).  

[Shake n Blake]

When Driskel was in, we finally started running the ball effectively (no, not because of Driskel, he rushed for 9 yards), the defense finally started to play decent, and the Browns weren't playing as aggressive on defense.

Even with all these advantages, the stats (Dalton vs Driskel) were almost identical through the first 16-17 attempts. Tbh I re-watched the highlights and Dalton didn't look bad at all. He made some sharp throws. The run game was just AWOL in the first half. Mixon had -1 yards on his first 5 carries.

The INT Dalton threw looked pretty horrific though. He was visibly frustrated prior to that throw. Just looked fed up. I'm beyond caring about what happens to Dalton, but it is a tad frustrating that people seem to be getting tunnel vision back on the QB again.

Dalton is not why...

- We gave up touchdowns on the first 5 drives
- The run game was absent in the first half
- Our special teams melted down

I get that the backup came in and performed admirably with no expectations against a defense that was letting up. That said, if you expect Driskel (or any QB) to salvage this season and/or make the Bengals a SB contender in the future, you're in for another heaping helping of disappointment. Until Marv is gone and Mike changes his ways, there is no hope.

[wolverine515151]

(11-26-2018, 03:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: In a league where Mike Glennon got signed to be a starter....twice, and Sam Bradford keeps getting jobs he will be valued plenty highly enough. Keenum makes more than Dalton and Keenum is not better than Dalton.

The report I saw from a sports medical personality was two weeks. Also not an injury that should get worse with use, more of a pain threshold issue. 

Teams signed Fitzpatrick for 2 million base and Bradford for 5 million yet you think Daltons 16 million a year contract is easy to trade. What delusional universe do you live in ?

Dalton's trade value was at a peak level 4 years ago. We could have got a first rounder for Dalton back then, now we'd be lucky to get a third rounder for him. That's assuming he can even be traded. 

He's only got two more years on his contract and teams won't want to give up a high draft pick for a player that they will only get for a couple years.

[Au165]

(11-26-2018, 04:12 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Teams signed Fitzpatrick for 2 million base and Bradford for 5 million yet you think Daltons 16 million a year contract is easy to trade. What delusional universe do you live in ?

Dalton's trade value was at a peak level 4 years ago. We could have got a first rounder for Dalton back then, now we'd be lucky to get a third rounder for him. That's assuming he can even be traded. 

He's only got two more years on his contract and teams won't want to give up a high draft pick for a player that they will only get for a couple years.

I said because they, meaning guys like Glennon and Bradford, keep getting signed people will value him. This was a nod to the fact that good QB's are needed in the league. I told you Smith had a larger contract when he got traded and you ignored it. I told you he is better than Case Keenum, who by the way is making more than Dalton, and you ignore it. $16 Million a year for a starting QB is NOTHING.

He can be traded and it really hasn't made much of a difference in that realm. I'd expect a similar take as to what Chiefs got for Alex Smith. 3rd and a player would be the starting point and the player better be young and high upside.

Alex Smith only had a year left when he was traded and they immediately extended him to a much larger deal.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-26-2018, 12:59 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The Browns weren't playing a soft defense. Driskell was getting blitzed like 50% of the time and the Browns were still playing press coverage. Also, its a whole hell of a lot easier for the pass rush to pin their ears back and rush the QB when they basically know a pass is coming every down.

Yep. The Browns were coming after him, knowing the Bengals needed to throw to get back in it. 

All that soft coverage/protecting a lead is bunk. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-26-2018, 01:52 PM)Au165 Wrote: This is AJ McCaron all over again. There is a reason no one wanted to offer McCaron a real contract and it's the same reason Driskell is not a starter. There is more to a game than seeing completions, understandings situations and what the defense was doing is important to match to the numbers. Driskell has done well in garbage time, but it is not the same thing schematically as what he'd see in a 0-0 game on the first drive, it just isn't.

His mobility is a plus, and being down so much emboldens him to make some risky throws that sometime pan out. He has a plus arm, but his pre read work is not very good and that is something that he should have from week to week game prep.

Driskel may never become an average to above average starter in the NFL, but he's nothing like McCarron. He's bigger, more mobile and has a stronger arm. 

He should get a chance to show what he can or can't do against a good defense this coming Sunday.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-26-2018, 02:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I think that stems from the offensive line and playcalling and the stupid rotating RBs more than the anything else.

Lazor would have to be a complete moron to not try and run the ball more this week. 

[LondonWhoDey]

It’s all academic really.

Dalton is going nowhere.

Marvin is going nowhere.

Mike is going nowhere.

Only way things will change is if the Bengals catch lightning in a bottle again and Green, Eifert, Boyd and Ross are healthly all year. Oh and a decent DC.

[wolverine515151]

(11-26-2018, 04:16 PM)Au165 Wrote: I said because they, meaning guys like Glennon and Bradford, keep getting signed people will value him. This was a nod to the fact that good QB's are needed in the league. I told you Smith had a larger contract when he got traded and you ignored it. I told you he is better than Case Keenum, who by the way is making more than Dalton, and you ignore it. $16 Million a year for a starting QB is NOTHING.

He can be traded and it really hasn't made much of a difference in that realm. I'd expect a similar take as to what Chiefs got for Alex Smith. 3rd and a player would be the starting point and the player better be young and high upside.

Alex Smith only had a year left when he was traded and they immediately extended him to a much larger deal.

Keenum had a good year in 2017. His qb rating was 98.3. Teams viewed him as a top 10 qb in the off season. The vikings had a decent year and he had max value when he signed for 18 million. 

Daltons qb rating right now is 89.6 which ranks hims 22 in the league. On top of that Dalton has been bad in the playoffs, which would hurt his value even more. He's viewed as a bottom 10 qb by almost all the gms in the league. 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl

[Au165]

(11-26-2018, 04:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Driskel may never become an average to above average starter in the NFL, but he's nothing like McCarron. He's bigger, more mobile and has a stronger arm. 

He should get a chance to show what he can or can't do against a good defense this coming Sunday.

He is McCarron when you turn on the tape. Physical attributes are cool, but Blake Bortles is everything you just described and I wouldn't want him playing QB for me. He can make the easy reads, see his throw to Boyd on a seam against cover 2, and does well on the move but in the pocket has accuracy issues and dissecting tougher reads pre snap. 

I actually think if he does have to start we'd be better off getting him on the run. Use a lot of bootlegs and sprint outs to give him an RG3 style two read and run offense. 

[Shake n Blake]

(11-26-2018, 04:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Driskel may never become an average to above average starter in the NFL, but he's nothing like McCarron. He's bigger, more mobile and has a stronger arm. 

He should get a chance to show what he can or can't do against a good defense this coming Sunday.

He's the anti-McCarron. Hyper-athletic with a good arm. McCarron was more accurate though, generally. Driskel was sailing some of those throws pretty high (a leaping 6'5" Tate couldn't get to some of them). Gotta admit I was encouraged by what I've seen from Driskel. He's not going to be a starter anytime soon, but he could be a solid backup and spot starter. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-26-2018, 03:41 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree, and he'd be a great fit in JAX.  I noted in another thread, if the thumb is not 100%, sit him this week at least.  It is his throwing hand, afterall.  If we're looking to move on, get him back in there to finish the season when he's healed, and market the shit out of him.

The only thing I'll disagree on, I think Driskel's at least more entertaining to watch than AJM.

I wonder how many people remember what they were doing on October 3, 1994?

I remember exactly what i was doing. Watching David Klingler, then Don Hollas get knocked out of the game against the Browns and seeing this little dude named Jeff Blake finish the game, looking nothing like an NFL QB. Right after the game i literally ripped the Bengals tee that i was wearing right off and threw it down the steps into the basement. I was completely disgusted  and done with the shit show that was the Bengals of the early/mid 90s. The next couple years were at least pretty entertaining and gave the city something to cheer about. 

Driskel may not give near that spark but i'm done...done...done...watching Dalton run out there week after week and give the same mediocre performance. 

[BengalsRocker]

(11-26-2018, 04:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Lazor would have to be a complete moron to not try and run the ball more this week. 

Mixon looks like the real deal from the ol' eye test and son of a beyotch am I so pissed that our offensive line couldn't block a bag of marshmallows to save their life!

How many damn years do we have to keep watching this shit show?!?

[Au165]

(11-26-2018, 04:28 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Keenum had a good year in 2017. His qb rating was 98.3. Teams viewed him as a top 10 qb in the off season. The vikings had a decent year and he had max value when he signed for 18 million. 

Daltons qb rating right now is 89.6 which ranks hims 22 in the league. 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl

Keenum hit FA at the right time. Case Keenum had 28 previous starts in his career telling you he wasn't the guy he was last year. John Elway swung and struck out for the third time on a QB. I think Elway simply struggles to find QB's. Funny enough, Dalton has a higher QB rating right now than that very same Case Keenum.

Dalton has a history of being an average to above average starting QB. Again, Dalton would command a deal similar to Alex Smith. A team like the Jaguars or Broncos would jump at the chance for Dalton because they can win now. He is consistent and you know what he will be roughly each season.

I'm not here to tell you Dalton is the answer here, especially at where we are now, but he can play in the NFL and teams know that. 

[fredtoast]

(11-26-2018, 04:28 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote:  He's viewed as a bottom 10 qb by almost all the gms in the league. 

No he isn't.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-26-2018, 04:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: He is McCarron when you turn on the tape. Physical attributes are cool, but Blake Bortles is everything you just described and I wouldn't want him playing QB for me. He can make the easy reads, see his throw to Boyd on a seam against cover 2, and does well on the move but in the pocket has accuracy issues and dissecting tougher reads pre snap. 

I actually think if he does have to start we'd be better off getting him on the run. Use a lot of bootlegs and sprint outs to give him an RG3 style two read and run offense. 

If you watched the throws Driskel made yesterday, and still think he looks the same as McCarron, i don't know how to reply to you because they were nothing like the same. My guess is Driskel was hyped and several of his throws were off target. Combine that with very limited reps and there you go. 

I'm more than happy to allow him to get 100% of the reps this week and hopefully get AJ back and see how he does. If he succeeds, great for them and us. If he fails, no shocker and we're right back to where we were before the Browns, needing a QB that can make tough throws under pressure.

[BengalsRocker]

(11-26-2018, 04:34 PM)Au165 Wrote: Keenum hit FA at the right time. Case Keenum had 28 previous starts in his career telling you he wasn't the guy he was last year. John Elway swung and struck out for the third time on a QB. I think Elway simply struggles to find QB's. Funny enough, Dalton has a higher QB rating right now than that very same Case Keenum.

Dalton has a history of being an average to above average starting QB. Again, Dalton would command a deal similar to Alex Smith. A team like the Jaguars or Broncos would jump at the chance for Dalton because they can win now. He is consistent and you know what he will be roughly each season.

I'm not here to tell you Dalton is the answer here, especially at where we are now, but he can play in the NFL and teams know that. 

That and the rest of the league knows the Mike Brown/Marvin Lewis debacle and thinks they can do better so.... Bengalzzzzzz.