Looks Like It Wasn't Just Austin

[kevin]

Everybody always wants a quick fix band aid. One scapegoat to blame everything on. That everything would be perfect if it wasn't for 1 or 2 people. This is not just Bengals, but many jobs, very much government. In Bengals case it was easy to blame the defense on Austin. When he was fired I jumped on the hope that his firing might improve the team. It did not.

We now see we had defensive problems before Austin, we have defensive problems after Austin. Moving Marvin back to defense and bringing in Hue who lost big time at Cleveland is just desperate times calling for desperate measures. We even saw Zampese with Browns offense as they beat us.

So forget the quick fix band aids. I see posts to hire Hue as next coach, and that is rock bottom for Bengals. Hue couldn't win at Cleveland, so let him go 0-16 with Bengals. There are get rid of Dalton threads. Of course get rid of Marvin threads. The Hue as head coach makes no sense to me. Maybe time to forget the quick fix band aids.

People will now talk of the draft. I ask why ? Most of our 1st round picks have never stepped up and delivered. We have three #1 picks at CB and Bengals couldn't trade them to another team for a bag of peanuts. We have #1 picks Ogbuehi and Ross who do little. We have #1 pick Eifert who is a TE made out of glass. They knew drafting him he was more of a WR than a TE. It's too early to tell on Price. There is no reason to get excited about yet another Bengals draft of these type players.

Yes, it's time for Marvin to go. Hue is sure as heck not the answer. It is time for Tobin and some Brown Family front office to go, but that won't happen. Burfict and Eifert need to go. Year after year they don't play, and you can't build on that. Looks like Bengals again kept the wrong kicker. Turns out there is no depth at WR or RB or TE as we thought. The O Line still needs much improvement. The D line isn't as good as we thought. The LBs and DBs are just awful. So it's a pretty bad team.

In all, it's a pretty bad team. Many very bad players, too many. Don't be fooled that these players would be good if they just made one or two changes. There is no quick fix band aid. Even in the draft the Bengals have been a total flop. To improve, it needs front office changes on down, and that will not happen. The one constant from Bungles 1990's to now is Mike Brown and the Family Trust Fund. They may be good lawyers, they just don't know football like the now long deceased founder of this team.

I don't know where this team is going. They started 2015 at 8-0. It all fell apart, mostly because Mike Brown went Cheap and let too many good players go. He thinks that if you just fill the uniforms with anybody, you get wins, and that is the lawyer in him. Mike is not and never will be a football person like dear old Dad. I see college players I would like to see on Bengals someday. That Ohio State QB that just broke Drew Brees records for example. The problem is this franchise has no direction. they need a compass or no drafts will help. Right now they couldn't find their rear ends with both hands. THERE IS NO QUICK FIX. It will take much more than firing Marvin or dumping Andy to fix these Sad Sacks. It has went back to being The Bungles. Lately, I have been turning the games off at half time, and I see the stadium is becoming empty faster. I went through the Mike Brown 1990's Bungles, but I refuse to ever do it again. The law firm or Brown, Brown, Brown, Brown and Blackburn just don't know football. The apples fell too far from the tree.

[bengalsturntup926]

Its not completely a bad team come on we got pieces. But im iffy if austin was that bad,i mean we wasnt even close to getting stops with him. Now we do get a few stops. Our linebacker unit is bad,that is not good for a defense. Linebackers are your qb of a defense they are that important you atleast need 1 stud. Remember denver when they won the superbowl they had 3 good ones. Carolina same way. This year Vontaze came in sucking for some reason,im not sure if its because he was secretly on steroids or not but i think its a good possibity because he fell off a cliff.

[LondonWhoDey]

(11-27-2018, 06:24 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Its not completely a bad team come on we got pieces. But im iffy if austin was that bad,i mean we wasnt even close to getting stops with him. Now we do get a few stops. Our linebacker unit is bad,that is not good for a defense. Linebackers are your qb of a defense they are that important you atleast need 1 stud. Remember denver when they won the superbowl they had 3 good ones. Carolina same way. This year Vontaze came in sucking for some reason,im not sure if its because he was secretly on steroids or not but i think its a good possibity because he fell off a cliff.

I get the feeling Vontaze has either fallen out of love with the game or is worried about penalty flags, not the same anymore.

[Sled21]

I think he is just worried too much about flags and fines. He knows he's under a microscope, and the league has stolen a lot of money from him with BS fines.

[lone bengal]

(11-27-2018, 08:05 AM)LondonWhoDey Wrote: I get the feeling Vontaze has either fallen out of love with the game or is worried about penalty flags, not the same anymore.

Think it could be a combination of both those things. Remember he didn’t just go undrafted because of the on the field penalties but because of work ethic isssues as well. He was the slowest linebacker at the combine and was in terrible shape. Maybe he’s not the same without the performance enhancing drugs ? People forgot he failed a test to start the year maybe he was using them for a few years.

[Atomic Orange]

(11-27-2018, 08:05 AM)LondonWhoDey Wrote: I get the feeling Vontaze has either fallen out of love with the game or is worried about penalty flags, not the same anymore.

And you would be absolutely correct. The NFL has neutralized him.

[*ochocincos*]

It's mainly about the LBs. Burfict is not the same as he used to be. Brown was hardly healthy, even in the seven games he played. Vigil was actually coming along this year before injuries derailed (most of) his season. Vincent Rey isn't the same as he used to be a few years back either. Jordan Evans hasn't had the light click on yet (it may never). The Bengals refuse to play Malik Jefferson on defense.

This LB group is old, beat up, and/or underperforming.

The offense has also had a lot of injuries (Green, Eifert, Kroft, Malone, Ross), which is a big contributor to their lack of success the past 1-2 months. Their late-round/UDFA receivers (Core, Erickson, Tate, Uzomah) just haven't developed enough to contribute in any meaningful way (yet).

And I'm sorry, but even if Marvin was an all-star DC 20 years ago, I'm not surprised he hasn't magically turned this defense around. He's rusty, the game has evolved a lot since he's been DC, and he's likely not changing up the defensive scheme from what Austin was teaching before the season started because it'd be too difficult to change something like that too much in the middle of the season.

All in all, this season is right up there with 2008, 2010, and 2016.

[Au165]

Burfict can't cover he just grabs guys and hopes not to get flagged. He could work as the 2nd MLB in a 3-4 but can't play in a 4-3 with so much emphasis on having to be able to coverage somewhat decently. I'm shopping him in the off season and if no one takes him I'd cut him. We have good young pieces in the front of the defense and in the back with Bates, but the LB group is just not good.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-27-2018, 11:14 AM)Au165 Wrote: Burfict can't cover he just grabs guys and hopes not to get flagged. He could work as the 2nd MLB in a 3-4 but can't play in a 4-3 with so much emphasis on having to be able to coverage somewhat decently. I'm shopping him in the off season and if no one takes him I'd cut him. We have good young pieces in the front of the defense and in the back with Bates, but the LB group is just not good.

Agree. Even IF Burfict were playing well, we're better off moving on because he's either injured or suspended for much of a season.

Can you imagine if we actually had a good team and he got a year suspension?

Better off just replacing him while we can dictate the terms.

That said, I doubt he has any trade value.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-27-2018, 11:47 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Agree. Even IF Burfict were playing well, we're better off moving on because he's either injured or suspended for much of a season.

Can you imagine if we actually had a good team and he got a year suspension?

Better off just replacing him while we can dictate the terms.

That said, I doubt he has any trade value.

Burfict isn't even that much of a cap hit if just flat out cut after this year either.
Savings of nearly $7 mill in 2019 and nearly $9 mill in 2020.
That can go quite nicely to the likes of a guy like KJ Wright or Anthony Barr. There really aren't that many other good options for LB this coming offseason in FA though. I don't see the Bengals going after Deone Bucannon unless they brought in a different HC.

I'd love to get KJ Wright and then draft Mack Wilson.

[LondonWhoDey]

(11-27-2018, 10:21 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Think it could be a combination of both those things. Remember he didn’t just go undrafted because of the on the field penalties but because of work ethic isssues as well. He was the slowest linebacker at the combine and was in terrible shape. Maybe he’s not the same without the performance enhancing drugs ? People forgot he failed a test to start the year maybe he was using them for a few years.

It’s a shame he was a loon, but he was our ankle twisting loon.

[XenoMorph]

defense isn't hungry anymore.... we feed them too well.

[J24]

(11-27-2018, 06:44 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: defense isn't hungry anymore.... we feed them too well.

The guys that were " Fed Well" we're having a monster year before Lawson got hurt and Vigil got hurt .
That's not the problem at all.

[J24]

Our lb suck and we miss Lawson up front.

[fredtoast]

The exact same players on defense (minus Iloka and Minter) were much better last year.

Anyone who claims we could not trade Dennard, Jackson, and Kirkpatrick for a bag a chips is clueless. Kirkpatrick and Jackson have shown they can play on a high level, and Dennard is not bad either.

The most ridiculous claim is that we messed up by paying our best D-linemen.

Some good coaching could turn this unit around.

[Circleville Guy]

(11-27-2018, 07:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The exact same players on defense (minus Iloka and Minter) were much better last year.

Anyone who claims we could not trade Dennard, Jackson, and Kirkpatrick for a bag a chips is clueless. Kirkpatrick and Jackson have shown they can play on a high level, and Dennard is not bad either.

The most ridiculous claim is that we messed up by paying our best D-linemen.

Some good coaching could turn this unit around.

I’d be curious to see the roster put into 3 bins. Starter Material, Worth Keeping and Useless. There are some legitimate starters here that are playing next to starters that should be just backups or are useless. Add injuries to those legitimate starters and you’re pretty much screwed. They really need to purge the Useless Bin, regardless of how high of a draft pick they were.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-27-2018, 06:54 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: The guys that were " Fed Well" we're having a monster year before Lawson got hurt and Vigil got hurt .
That's not the problem at all.

I wouldn't say anyone on the defense is having a monster year. Lawson had 1 sack this year. So while he got pressure...he didnt get sacks.

Vigil racked up a decent amount of tackles but they were downfield and his overall grade was so-so.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-27-2018, 07:39 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I’d be curious to see the roster put into 3 bins. Starter Material, Worth Keeping and Useless. There are some legitimate starters here that are playing next to starters that should be just backups or are useless. Add injuries to those legitimate starters and you’re pretty much screwed. They really need to purge the Useless Bin, regardless of how high of a draft pick they were.

That's one of the bigger flaws in Mikey's model. Retain nearly every player the full length of their contract no matter how bad they suck, injuries, lost steps, team needs or whatever. Which really is just a ploy to save money.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-27-2018, 11:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I wouldn't say anyone on the defense is having a monster year. Lawson had 1 sack this year. So while he got pressure...he didnt get sacks.

Vigil racked up a decent amount of tackles but they were downfield and his overall grade was so-so.

Yeah, no monster years on defense. Bates has been the best of the bad though.

Idk that I’d say anyone on the team is having a monster year. Boyd is probably closest. AJ was before he got hurt.

[bengaloo]

It's hard to imagine that when we first hired Marvin, we had Takeo Spikes and Brian Simmons on the roster. Obviously that didnt pan out, and Marvin has failed to produce a really quality LB core since he took over. We've gone through bust after bust at LB under Marvin. We are struggling at LB really bad this season and the fix after season, at most, will be another attempt at finding a Dhani Jones type vet who's otherwise being ignored in FA.

Its more than LB right now though. Marvin has lost this team. We've seen players on the team play much much better. It looks like the players have thrown in the towel to me.