Marvin Lewis's true failure as HC

[*bengalfan74*]

THE PITTSBURGH STEELERS

Marvin's overall record against them is 8-25 including playoffs. Eight wins out of thirty three chances ! He loses over 3/4's of the time.

Marvin has a home record of 2-16 against them including playoffs. They own us at PBS !

Pittsburgh has swept Marvin Lewis led teams 8 times probably soon to be 9 in 16 seasons. At or over half the time.

In 2006 just as one of many examples all we had to do was beat a Steeler team to end the season that wasn't having a good year (8-8) and we lost. We have lost to the Steelers late in the season on numerous times busting up any confidence we've had.

Since the 2015 melt down in the playoffs this team is 0-6 vs. the Steelers ! This season we were 4-1 going in the first match up against the Steelers, we lost in heart breaking fashion, again. We're 1-4 since.

One could go on citing examples of the Steelers taking the wind out of our sails. And to me this is the main reason why:

I caught Jonathan Vilma on Monday morning talking about college ball but it so hits Marvin's problem right on the head !

He said words to the effect of "Michigan can't beat Ohio St, because Harbaugh goes uber conservative, run left, run right, pass on 3rd and long, and play not to lose. It's the same reason (I forget the SEC team he cited, LSU ? Georgia ?) can't beat Alabama." "Why not get out of your comfort zone and do something different? "

It's the main reason we fall short time and time again against the Steelers and it comes from our HC. We go in against them with our tail tucked between our legs, uber conservative, same game plan time and again, play the odds, play the numbers, field position, rely on your defense, blah, blah. It's not about going for it on 4th down that's mostly desperation. Or fake FG's.

It's about showing some innovation on 1st down. Coming up with a game plan to attack their weakness. Using our weapons and using them a lot. Not going back to the field position game the nano second we get a lead. Attack, attack, attack ! And ML won't do it. He has to stay in his safe zone and we're never going to win like that.

We'll never get over the hump until we get the Steelers monkey off our back.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The problem with Marvin Lewis is that he treats every game as the same. He treats playoff games, big games, Primetime games and division games just the same as the game against the worse NFC they have ever played.

I don't get it myself but he just shows no sense of urgency, passion or emotion at any time and it rubs off on the other coaches and players. 

[*ochocincos*]

(11-29-2018, 01:48 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: THE PITTSBURGH STEELERS

Marvin's overall record against them is 8-25 including playoffs. Eight wins out of thirty three chances ! He loses over 3/4's of the time.

Marvin has a home record of 2-16 against them including playoffs. They own us at PBS !

Pittsburgh has swept Marvin Lewis led teams 8 times probably soon to be 9 in 16 seasons. At or over half the time.

In 2006 just as one of many examples all we had to do was beat a Steeler team to end the season that wasn't having a good year (8-8) and we lost. We have lost to the Steelers late in the season on numerous times busting up any confidence we've had.

Since the 2015 melt down in the playoffs this team is 0-6 vs. the Steelers ! This season we were 4-1 going in the first match up against the Steelers, we lost in heart breaking fashion, again. We're 1-4 since.

One could go on citing examples of the Steelers taking the wind out of our sails. And to me this is the main reason why:

I caught Jonathan Vilma on Monday morning talking about college ball but it so hits Marvin's problem right on the head !

He said words to the effect of "Michigan can't beat Ohio St, because Harbaugh goes uber conservative, run left, run right, pass on 3rd and long, and play not to lose. It's the same reason (I forget the SEC team he cited, LSU ? Georgia ?) can't beat Alabama." "Why not get out of your comfort zone and do something different? "

It's the main reason we fall short time and time again against the Steelers and it comes from our HC. We go in against them with our tail tucked between our legs, uber conservative, same game plan time and again, play the odds, play the numbers, field position, rely on your defense, blah, blah. It's not about going for it on 4th down that's mostly desperation. Or fake FG's.

It's about showing some innovation on 1st down. Coming up with a game plan to attack their weakness. Using our weapons and using them a lot. Not going back to the field position game the nano second we get a lead. Attack, attack, attack ! And ML won't do it. He has to stay in his safe zone and we're never going to win like that.

We'll never get over the hump until we get the Steelers monkey off our back.

I personally wouldn't care if my team lost every game to their rival as long as they were going deep into the playoffs consistently.
Unfortunately, that's not happening either.
You use the Michigan-OSU comparison, but I think it's dumb that people would care more about losing to Michigan than making the playoffs, and I know that may sound silly that someone would actually care more about that but I know some die hard OSU fans who do.

[THE PISTONS]

I think it's a little more than gameplan. Generally the Steelers can ALWAYS run the ball against us and we can NEVER run against them.

They had Bell hurt and Fitzgeral Touissant in at RB who got a lot of yards against us.

[fredtoast]

The Steelers dominance over the Bengals is hard to explain. The Bengals are 3-12 since 2011 against the Steelers, but look at their records against other teams.

Bengals 67-39-2
Steelers 68-39-1

Also look at the records of the steelers and the bengals against the Ravens since Marvin arrived

Bengals 19-13
Steelers 15-17


As a university of Tennessee fan I have seen the same thing against Florida. Even when the Vols had the better team they always lost to the Gators, and often it is in last second heart breaking fashion. Some teams just get in a coaches/players head. And, to be honest, some of it is just plain bad luck.


Whatever the reason, for me the way the Steelers have owned us is the single most painful aspect of Marvins tenure with the Bengals.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-29-2018, 02:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Steelers dominance over the Bengals is hard to explain.  The Bengals are 3-12 since 2011 against the Steelers, but look at their records against other teams.

Bengals  67-39-2
Steelers  68-39-1

Also look at the records of the steelers  and the bengals against the Ravens since Marvin arrived

Bengals  19-13
Steelers   15-17


As a university of Tennessee fan I have seen the same thing against Florida.  Even when the Vols had the better team they always lost to the Gators, and often it is in last second heart breaking fashion.  Some teams just get in a coaches/players head.  And, to be honest, some of it is just plain bad luck.


Whatever the reason, for me the way the Steelers have owned us is the single most painful aspect of Marvins tenure with the Bengals.

Almost like it's psychological isn't it?

[Bengalholic]

He gets dominated by the Steelers.
He gets dominated by prime time games.
He gets dominated by the postseason.

His defenders, who seem to be very few anymore, can come up with all the stats and excuses in the world...but his epic failures in those 3 areas define his legacy as a head coach. There's just no way around it. In the biggest situations, where a head coach proves his mettle, he fails time and time again. Even worse is the way he and his teams usually fail in big stage situations...in an embarrassingly inept fashion.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-29-2018, 02:12 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: He gets dominated by the Steelers.
He gets dominated by prime time games.
He gets dominated by the postseason.

His defenders, who seem to be very few anymore, can come up with all the stats and excuses in the world...but his epic failures in those 3 areas define his legacy as a head coach. There's just no way around it. In the biggest situations, where a head coach proves his mettle, he fails time and time again. Even worse is the way he and his teams usually fail in big stage situations...in an embarrassingly inept fashion.

Yep. The best defense people can muster for him is atleast it's not as bad as it was in the 90's. We're mediocre now.

0-7 in the playoffs is mind-boggling. Most other teams have won 5+ playoff games over the past 25 years.

To be there 7 times and lose every single one...it's unthinkable.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-29-2018, 02:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I personally wouldn't care if my team lost every game to their rival as long as they were going deep into the playoffs consistently.
Unfortunately, that's not happening either.
You use the Michigan-OSU comparison, but I think it's dumb that people would care more about losing to Michigan than making the playoffs, and I know that may sound silly that someone would actually care more about that but I know some die hard OSU fans who do.

Ocho this isn't really about Ohio St. or Michigan, or Alabama, or rivalry games vs. playoffs.

It's about ML having the deer in the headlighrs look anytime we play the Steelers, they're our nemesis, they're Marvin's nemesis.

And about how that lack of confidence, lack of mojo, rubs off on everything else Bengals. We can't beat Pittsburgh and it all goes to hell from there. Lose under the lights, lose against good teams when we need a win, lose in the playoffs.

And he refuses to change his approach, not to just Steeler games all the time ! This team wins in spite of Marvin Lewis and the coaching not because of it.

[Bengalholic]

(11-29-2018, 02:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Steelers dominance over the Bengals is hard to explain.  The Bengals are 3-12 since 2011 against the Steelers, but look at their records against other teams.

Bengals  67-39-2
Steelers  68-39-1

Also look at the records of the steelers  and the bengals against the Ravens since Marvin arrived

Bengals  19-13
Steelers   15-17


As a university of Tennessee fan I have seen the same thing against Florida.  Even when the Vols had the better team they always lost to the Gators, and often it is in last second heart breaking fashion.  Some teams just get in a coaches/players head.  And, to be honest, some of it is just plain bad luck.


Whatever the reason, for me the way the Steelers have owned us is the single most painful aspect of Marvins tenure with the Bengals.

Hell, against the AFC as a whole, he is only 93-101, counting the playoffs. Take away his 22-9 record against the Browns - who have been among the NFL's very worst during his time, and he's only 71-92 against the other 14 AFC teams.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-29-2018, 02:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Steelers dominance over the Bengals is hard to explain.  The Bengals are 3-12 since 2011 against the Steelers, but look at their records against other teams.

Bengals  67-39-2
Steelers  68-39-1

Also look at the records of the steelers  and the bengals against the Ravens since Marvin arrived

Bengals  19-13
Steelers   15-17


As a university of Tennessee fan I have seen the same thing against Florida.  Even when the Vols had the better team they always lost to the Gators, and often it is in last second heart breaking fashion.  Some teams just get in a coaches/players head.  And, to be honest, some of it is just plain bad luck.


Whatever the reason, for me the way the Steelers have owned us is the single most painful aspect of Marvins tenure with the Bengals.

Absolutely Agree Fred, although the playoff loses are gigantic as well.

And I maintain until (if ever ?) Marvin gets the Steelers monkey off his back he's going nowhere.

[Mickeypoo]

(11-29-2018, 02:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Almost like it's psychological isn't it?

And the Steelers ate into his brain.  Pink Floyd reference.  lol

[*ochocincos*]

(11-29-2018, 02:17 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Ocho this isn't really about Ohio St. or Michigan, or Alabama, or rivalry games vs. playoffs.

It's about ML having the deer in the headlighrs look anytime we play the Steelers, they're our nemesis, they're Marvin's nemesis.

And about how that lack of confidence, lack of mojo, rubs off on everything else Bengals. We can't beat Pittsburgh and it all goes to hell from there. Lose under the lights, lose against good teams when we need a win, lose in the playoffs.

And he refuses to change his approach, not to just Steeler games all the time ! This team wins in spite of Marvin Lewis and the coaching not because of it.

Nemesis and rival are practically interchangeable.
Even though you've clarified, I still disagree with you. I wouldn't care if the Bengals lost to the Steelers every game as long as they were going deep into the playoffs.

[McC]

(11-29-2018, 03:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Nemesis and rival are practically interchangeable.
Even though you've clarified, I still disagree with you. I wouldn't care if the Bengals lost to the Steelers every game as long as they were going deep into the playoffs.

But the Steeler thing is the insult added to the injury of the playoff debacles.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-29-2018, 03:10 PM)McC Wrote: But the Steeler thing is the insult added to the injury of the playoff debacles.

Right, so the focus really should be on "good" teams, not just the Steelers. The way the topic comes off is that the Bengals keep getting embarrassed by their rival, but it's really more "good" teams in general.

[Bengalholic]

(11-29-2018, 03:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Nemesis and rival are practically interchangeable.
Even though you've clarified, I still disagree with you. I wouldn't care if the Bengals lost to the Steelers every game as long as they were going deep into the playoffs.

The Steelers are not only one of the big dogs in the yard that you have to contend with annually, but they are a usually a playoff caliber division opponent that you get to test your mettle against a twice year. If you're losing every game against them as you say, or even getting dominated by losing 25 of 33, as they've done in reality...you're not going to be very well prepared for an even bigger stage, with even more pressure. 

[McC]

(11-29-2018, 03:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Right, so the focus really should be on "good" teams, not just the Steelers. The way the topic comes off is that the Bengals keep getting embarrassed by their rival, but it's really more "good" teams in general.

That's very true.  But owned by the rival naturally hurts the most.  And the nature of nearly every game is a real kick in the gut too.

[Bengalholic]

(11-29-2018, 03:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Right, so the focus really should be on "good" teams, not just the Steelers. The way the topic comes off is that the Bengals keep getting embarrassed by their rival, but it's really more "good" teams in general.

This is a fair enough point. I think the Bengals are something like 35-57 against the top 5 most successful teams in the AFC during Marvin's tenure...with the only winning record being against the Ravens.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-29-2018, 03:19 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The Steelers are not only one of the big dogs in the yard that you have to contend with annually, but they are a usually a playoff caliber division opponent that you get to test your mettle against a twice year. If you're losing every game against them as you say, or even getting dominated by losing 25 of 33, as they've done in reality...you're not going to be very well prepared for an even bigger stage, with even more pressure. 

I agree with that and I guess I should clarify my point because I think there's some confusion...
If the Bengals were really beating most every other "good" team except the Steelers, it probably wouldn't (or shouldn't) be that big of a deal that the keep losing to the Steelers.
But in reality, they often lose to other teams like the Steelers as well, and therein lies the bigger problem.

So in other words, I agree that the Bengals need to get better at beating the good teams. I don't think it's as big of a deal if they keep losing to the Steelers provided they can beat most other good teams and go deep into the playoffs (which they aren't doing).

[*ochocincos*]

(11-29-2018, 03:24 PM)McC Wrote: That's very true.  But owned by the rival naturally hurts the most.  And the nature of nearly every game is a real kick in the gut too.

I guess I view things differently then.
I think of things this way...
Would I rather the Bengals sweep the Steelers every year but just barely miss the playoffs?
Or would I rather the Bengals get swept by the Steelers but make it to the AFC Championship game, Super Bowl, or win it all?

I'd choose the latter. Because to me, beating the Steelers is like a consolation prize for not going deep in the playoffs. I do know people who have said if it came down to it, they'd rather their team beat their rival even if it meant not making the playoffs rather than getting beat by the rival but making the playoffs.