Whitworth-Bengals lowballed

[Thundercloud]

Don't I remember that Whit said that he had his agent take every offer back to the Bengals to see what they wanted to do?

[Sled21]

(12-04-2018, 10:51 PM)Destro Wrote: How are people defending the Bengals decision here? We have three parties here. The Bengals, the Rams and Whitworth. Which of those three are the losers in this situation? If you are surprised, then you haven't been paying attention.

Because the smart money said Whitworth would not be able to beat father time and continue to play at his level at his age. The fact he did, and now people think the Bengals were dumb for letting him go, is simply 20-20 hindsight.

[McC]

(12-05-2018, 09:09 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Because the smart money said Whitworth would not be able to beat father time and continue to play at his level at his age. The fact he did, and now people think the Bengals were dumb for letting him go, is simply 20-20 hindsight.

The Rams had 20/20 foresight.

[Sled21]

(12-05-2018, 09:12 AM)McC Wrote: The Rams had 20/20 foresight.

The Rams took a chance, got lucky and hit on one..... I don't follow the Rams, but I'm sure they have missed on quite a few as well.....

[McC]

(12-05-2018, 09:13 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The Rams took a chance, got lucky and hit on one..... I don't follow the Rams, but I'm sure they have missed on quite a few as well.....

Sure.    Spin, spin, spin.  

Luck is the residue of design--Branch Rickey.

[Sled21]

(12-05-2018, 09:20 AM)McC Wrote: Sure.    Spin, spin, spin.  

Luck is the residue of design--Branch Rickey.

Yeah, you're right, spin... 'cause the Rams never miss....

[jj22]

(12-04-2018, 08:56 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Lots of players have left here an had nice things to say...… 

Sure. The Mike Johnsons, Vinnie Reys, Robert Geathers of the team. Those who got to stick around for 5+ years longer than they should have and was paid good money for nearly no production.

Those players always speak highly of the Browns.

Who can blame them? Free rides tend to be pretty popular.

[XenoMorph]

(12-04-2018, 12:04 PM)pally Wrote: Throw away the myth that the Bengals were in the running with their money offer to Whitworth and it was the length of contract that drove him away.  Per Whit, the Bengals were the low dollar outlier of all his offers.

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/04/andrew-whitworth-reveals-bengals-lowballed-him-contract-discussions/

Whitworth himself said on the Rams Revealed podcast that the Bengals weren’t close to “three or four” other offers:



“For me honestly I had three or four offers that were all really right the same. The only real offer for me, unfortunately, that wasn’t really equivalent to the others was the team I was with, the Cincinnati Bengals, were really the only team that was the outlier in the offers I received. So I knew that that probably meant for me, really the situation I was under, and the excitement to try and go win, really not having much of a commitment from them, felt like I was going to have to go somewhere.”

uh there was never a myth... Bengals offered him a reduce salary and a reduced role cause they needed to move on with their draft picks and get them playing.

whitworth was 34 at the time which is past time most players fall off the cliff

[XenoMorph]

(12-05-2018, 09:13 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The Rams took a chance, got lucky and hit on one..... I don't follow the Rams, but I'm sure they have missed on quite a few as well.....

like the last 15 years or so they where close to bottom feeders.

[jj22]

We as fans have to get it together. Are we really turning our noses up to the Rams way of running their Organization? I'm sure their fans would get a chuckle over that on their way to another Superbowl appearance if they read this thread.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-04-2018, 08:56 PM)McC Wrote: At the root of all of it is the fact that they listened to P ***** A.  He told them he had it covered.  Kinda like we can take Britain from the air or not a bomb will fall on Berlin.  I believe this is known as famous last words.

Yep

(12-05-2018, 01:07 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Did you miss this earlier in the thread?

It wasn't close. They offered him a one year, incentive laden deal of UP to 10 million vs $13 million year 1 w/ the rams and at least $2.5 guaranteed the next year, almost assuring him he wouldn't be on the street in Year 2 at age 35.

— Katherine Terrell (@Kat_Terrell) December 4, 2018

What they were "willing" to go up to (according to them after the fact) and what they actually offered are not the same. They offered an incentive heavy deal that was worth up to $10m.

He got $15m guaranteed from the Rams including $5m in his pocket right then and there.



- - - - - - - - - - -
Agreed that they were slow to recognize it. After seeing Ogbuehi be the worst OL I had ever seen in my life in 2016 (and previously a little in 2015), I knew he was never ever going to be any good.

Players can make the jump from bad to good with experience, but 2nd year players who are the worst you've ever seen are just busts. It happens. He was the Ryan Leaf/Akili Smith of OL. For whatever reason they refused to just take the L and admit their mistake, doubling down.

It has helped ruin three seasons now, though. They're going to spend so many draft picks and so much money now trying to find a LT. It is a repeat of the JJo situation all over again.

Right on

Wasn't it you that did the thread a couple years ago about how MB being cheap letting high dollar vets go actually cost him money in trying to replace them with the bargain basement guys ?

You guys can spin and tap dance around the facts all you want but MB has once again ruined this team being cheap. Once again we're watching a core group of players fade away because MB won't do what it takes to assemble a winner. The only thing he cares about is his money. We had Dalton and AJ in their prime but no, the man in charge said let's see if we can nickel and dime our way thru this.

That's all it amounts to.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-04-2018, 11:14 PM)Whatever Wrote: Hard to say.  The initial offer wasn't $12 mil, but sources said they would have been willing to go to $12 mil, but not for multiple years.  It's kind of irrelevant, because the only way the Bengals could have paid him more guaranteed money on a 1 year deal than he got from the Rams is paying him more than the FT that year, which wasn't happening.

We don't know how much guaranteed money the Bengals put on the table.  He got $2 mil at signing when he signed his previous 1 year extension.  Payment schedule is important, but you also have to consider that he's paying to move his family cross country into a city with an insanely high cost of living.

At the end of the day, the Bengals should have just used the FT on him if they weren't willing to commit to a multi-year deal, so in that way, they were cheap.  However, they would still be looking to replace him this upcoming year.  The biggest issue isn't that Whit left.  It's that the guys they drafted to replace him were busts and they were slow to recognize it.

I agree.....but they could have used the transition tag, which was essentially the 12 million in question.  It was stupid, no two ways about it.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-05-2018, 09:09 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Because the smart money said Whitworth would not be able to beat father time and continue to play at his level at his age. The fact he did, and now people think the Bengals were dumb for letting him go, is simply 20-20 hindsight.

You would normally be right Sled......but everyone with a set of eyes, save for Piano Paul, could see that Cedric Ogbuehi was a MASSIVE bust.  As Leonard mentioned, he was the worst LT I have ever seen play the game at the NFL level, practice squad reclamation projects included.  There is no way they should have hedged their bets based on game film.  If you weren't going to lock Whit up (and I understand the thought process behind not locking him up long term), use the transition tag and try to match.....or franchise tag and evaluate the player while drafting another, or looking for a FA the following year.  To roll with Og is like refusing the Saints' draft for Akili Smith.

[Whatever]

(12-05-2018, 12:13 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree.....but they could have used the transition tag, which was essentially the 12 million in question.  It was stupid, no two ways about it.

The only way the transition tag would have made sense would have been if they were willing to match a multi year deal, which they weren't.  

[Whatever]

(12-05-2018, 11:30 AM)jj22 Wrote: We as fans have to get it together. Are we really turning our noses up to the Rams way of running their Organization? I'm sure their fans would get a chuckle over that on their way to another Superbowl appearance if they read this thread.

I don't think anyone is turning their nose up at the Rams.  They were in a very different situation.  They needed OL help desperately and had a young QB, plus they had no prospects at the position.  The Bengals mistakenly thought they had Whit's replacement.  Due to that, they valued Whit differently.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-05-2018, 01:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: The only way the transition tag would have made sense would have been if they were willing to match a multi year deal, which they weren't.  

Yeah....but at least then, they have the option to match.  The franchise tag would have enabled a sure one year stay, no doubt.  I would have done one or the other, based solely on the play of #70, and I'm no NFL GM or anything remotely close.  It just seems so common sense to me.  Ogbuehi is the worst in the league at his position by a decent margin, maybe the worst ever.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-05-2018, 01:36 PM)Whatever Wrote: I don't think anyone is turning their nose up at the Rams.  They were in a very different situation.  They needed OL help desperately and had a young QB, plus they had no prospects at the position.  The Bengals mistakenly thought they had Whit's replacement.  Due to that, they valued Whit differently.

I get your position......but we're talking about an absolutely terrible player here.  If they thought that, they're dumber than we accuse them of being.

[Sled21]

(12-05-2018, 01:48 PM)Wyche Wrote: I get your position......but we're talking about an absolutely terrible player here.  If they thought that, they're dumber than we accuse them of being.

Yes, and no one here despises CO any more than I do. Should the Bengals have used a franchise tag on Whit, maybe.... probably. But, the plain fact is, they offered him the same money the Rams did on a one year deal, and did not want to sign him long term because they thought he was close to being done. Now people want to act like that was some horrible decision that could only be made by our bumbling staff. He got 4 offers... that means 28 teams also had no interest in trying to get one of the left tackles in the game. That right there tells you a long term deal, though it worked out for LA, was not the smart play. Sometimes you win with the dumb play, sometimes you lose with the smart play. I don't think the Bengals hedged all their bets on CO, but probably thought that between CO and Fisher they could get something. Obviously, they were wrong.

[fredtoast]

(12-05-2018, 11:30 AM)jj22 Wrote: We as fans have to get it together. Are we really turning our noses up to the Rams way of running their Organization? I'm sure their fans would get a chuckle over that on their way to another Superbowl appearance if they read this thread.

Their fans have had one winning season in the last 15 years, so they can't chuckle at anyone.

And getting rid of older players is the Patriots way of running their organization, so are you going to turn your nose up on a team that has won 4 Super Bowls in the last 15 years or a team that has only one winning season over that span?

[McC]

(12-05-2018, 09:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Yeah, you're right, spin... 'cause the Rams never miss....

Are you dizzy yet from all the spinning?  What are the Rams NOW, because NOW is the point?  Are they playing a LG at LT?  Have they lost four in a row?  How many years away from 11-1 are the Bengals?  That should keep you spinning for quite awhile.