For anyone wishing to defend PA, and Bengals coaching.....

[*ochocincos*]

(12-06-2018, 05:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You mean Bodine wasn't the problem??  


Seriously, you're onto something when you mention the coaching staff's development (or lack of) young players into polished professionals.  The only ones who seem to have success, are the ones that would be a star on any club.

I really wish a former Bengal player would just come out and say that the development currently sucks in Cincinnati. Lapham I think has been the only one willing to flat out say that, but he was never coached by the Marvin Lewis crew.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-06-2018, 04:50 PM)Wyche Wrote: I don't recall Bodine ever being rated above like the 25th or so C in the NFL.  It seems he took a rather large leap in Buffalo.  Any idea who coaches their o line?

Bodine did come on towards the end of last year if memory served me...but it was after they switched the blocking scheme I believe.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-06-2018, 05:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: PA's "fall back and catch" scheme. You can never be as strong going backwards as you are going forward.....

So true, just sets up the O-lineman for failure. Also Dalton wouldn't have near as many tipped passes if the
Lineman were pushing the D-lineman backwards...

(12-06-2018, 05:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So essentially everything comes down to the Bengals having good talent evaluators but terrible ability to coach those players.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-06-2018, 05:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You mean Bodine wasn't the problem??  


Seriously, you're onto something when you mention the coaching staff's development (or lack of) young players into polished professionals.  The only ones who seem to have success, are the ones that would be a star on any club.

Which was always my position when folks went to bat for Piano Paul.....then he even got bad at picking the talent.

(12-06-2018, 05:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So essentially everything comes down to the Bengals having good talent evaluators but terrible ability to coach those players.

The way it appears ocho

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-06-2018, 05:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Bodine did come on towards the end of last year if memory served me...but it was after they switched the blocking scheme I believe.

He did a little bit, for sure, as did the rest of the oline.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

It seems Merv's "Be a pro" mantra only applies to players.....I guess he feels they don't need professional coaching.

[Tomkat]

What I don't understand is... if PA's "backpedal-and-play-pattycake" method wasn't working... WHY did the players continue to do it?
It's not like they NEED coaching to play, they've already made the NFL, so they must be already pretty good at what they do.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-06-2018, 05:52 PM)Tomkat Wrote: What I don't understand is... if PA's "backpedal-and-play-pattycake" method wasn't working... WHY did the players continue to do it?
It's not like they NEED coaching to play, they've already made the NFL, so they must be already pretty good at what they do.

The bench can be a lonely place to be.......most coaches, especially a guy like Piano Man, can have massive egos.

[RunKijanaRun]

Makes me sick.

[fredtoast]

(12-06-2018, 05:52 PM)Tomkat Wrote: What I don't understand is... if PA's "backpedal-and-play-pattycake" method wasn't working... WHY did the players continue to do it?
It's not like they NEED coaching to play, they've already made the NFL, so they must be already pretty good at what they do.

Because it did work for a lot of players.

For the 8 year period from '07 through '15 PFF ranked the Bengals O-line number one in the league in pass protection.  And PFF's unit rankings are not based on the same subjective formula as the individual rankings that I rail against all the time.

Bodine just worked better in the buffalo system.  Just like Rich Braham worked better in the Bengals system than he did with the Cards who cut him before we signed him.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-06-2018, 06:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bodine just worked better in the buffalo system.  

You must have missed this part from the quoted article?

 

Quote: When I watched Bodine's tape during his time with the Bengals, I was frequently distressed by a heavy-footed player who struggled with the simplest pass-rush concepts, and despite his obvious strength, he lacked root strength because his technique was so bad. I listed him as the NFL's worst center near the end of the 2017 season, and the tape more than backed up that assertion.



But after signing a two-year, $5 million contract with the Bills this last offseason, something clicked, because Bodine was playing at an entirely different level. More than ever, he was coming off the snap low and nasty, driving defensive tackles out of the play, and keeping his quarterbacks clean.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-06-2018, 05:52 PM)Tomkat Wrote: What I don't understand is... if PA's "backpedal-and-play-pattycake" method wasn't working... WHY did the players continue to do it?
It's not like they NEED coaching to play, they've already made the NFL, so they must be already pretty good at what they do.

Disobeying gets you benched.

[fredtoast]

(12-06-2018, 06:06 PM)Wyche Wrote: You must have missed this part from the quoted article?

No I did not miss that at all.

Bodine did not fit the system here.  That is why he struggled.

If the system was flawed then we would never have had the success that we did for so many years in pass protection.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-06-2018, 06:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No I did not miss that at all.

Bodine did not fit the system here.  That is why he struggled.

If the system was flawed then we would never have had the success that we did for so many years in pass protection.

Matter of opinion, I guess.  I think the other linemen were just superior players and fundamentally sound, and Bodine needed some work on his fundamentals that weren't ironed out under Alexander.  Bodine's improvement in fundamentals kind of backs that.  

I will agree that the system was ill suited as well, but coming out low, getting your feet right, and driving defenders off the ball has nothing to do with scheme/system.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-06-2018, 05:46 PM)Wyche Wrote: It seems Merv's "Be a pro" mantra only applies to players.....I guess he feels they don't need professional coaching.

Wasn't PA the one who stated he couldn't coach guys up during the season ?

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-06-2018, 06:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If the system was flawed then we would never have had the success that we did for so many years in pass protection.

Wrong. Talent can compensate for bad schemes.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-06-2018, 06:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No I did not miss that at all.

Bodine did not fit the system here.  That is why he struggled.

If the system was flawed then we would never have had the success that we did for so many years in pass protection.

Getting rolled like a beach ball right back in the QB's lap has nothing to do with a system.

[XenoMorph]

(12-06-2018, 04:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: Look no further than Russell Bodine as proof to what ails this team:



NO SACKS!!!!!


Seriously.....WTF.  He was among the league's worst centers when he was here!  Kind of solidifies what we said about Piano Paul, and about Merv's staff in general to this day.

I don't think you will find anyone in the defend PA camp


Buffalo must have those Squeeze Ketchup Bottles...

[BengalFanInNJ]

I don't blame the Bengals for letting Bodine go. He was just not good here in the way the Bengals used him. Good for him though improving and/or finding a scheme that fits him. While I was happy he left, I never wished ill will towards him.

[SladeX]

(12-06-2018, 06:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No I did not miss that at all.

Bodine did not fit the system here.  That is why he struggled.

If the system was flawed then we would never have had the success that we did for so many years in pass protection.

No, Fred, the coaching staff was/is a tremendous part of the problem. Clearly stated was Bodine's issue with fundamentals, which PA could not or would not address. Sorry it doesn't fit with your narrative. If Marvin Lewis was such a great HEAD coach, he would have demanded accountability from PA. He could have agitated/fought/cajoled/demanded that Brown go another direction, when it came down to that. An endless, daily shitstorm until PA was gone. But that's not Lewis' MO, is it? He doesn't fight for anything that I can tell. He sure as hell doesn't get in anyone's face at game time - like the refs, for instance. Clap, stare, giggle, and treat anyone who points out the OBVIOUS to him as an ignorant rube.

If the team makes a sweeping, meaningful change in coaching, and the team progresses and fights the way it did early in Lewis' tenure, then you can bet I won't be howling about their record. And no - hiring a retread wouldn't count (Hue, or other former coach).

For christ sakes, dude, it took the Cowboys all of 7 games to see the truth about PA, while it took Brown (Lewis?) YEARS and YEARS.