For anyone wishing to defend PA, and Bengals coaching.....

[BengalChris]

(12-06-2018, 04:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: Look no further than Russell Bodine as proof to what ails this team:



NO SACKS!!!!!


Seriously.....WTF.  He was among the league's worst centers when he was here!  Kind of solidifies what we said about Piano Paul, and about Merv's staff in general to this day.

How long before someone decides it's the fan's fault for wanting Bodine gone after 4 years of horrid play?

[Devils Advocate]

(12-06-2018, 06:19 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Matter of opinion, I guess.  I think the other linemen were just superior players and fundamentally sound, and Bodine needed some work on his fundamentals that weren't ironed out under Alexander.  Bodine's improvement in fundamentals kind of backs that.  

I will agree that the system was ill suited as well, but coming out low, getting your feet right, and driving defenders off the ball has nothing to do with scheme/system.

Well the rest of the NFL have solved the mysterious Marvin Lewis offense over the past coupla years. This year the puzzle was completely solved when teams stopped blitzing Andy almost altogether. Point being, during the prior 2 or 3 seasons, it’s possible that Bodine wasn’t the issue given the fact that during nearly the entire Marvin Lewis era, a few key positions have struggled mightily, C being one.

Good for Bodine. I remember praising his decision to bet on himself testing FA (if I remember, the bengals made an offer). Looks like it’s gonna pay off.

[Nicomo Cosca]

[THE PISTONS]

The dude coached with the Bengals for 23 years. 23!!!

It's like Marvin. By the time he moved on we would have already had him for 7-8+ years too long. In the end, we all lose.

Too little. Too late.

[Hoofhearted]

(12-06-2018, 05:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I really wish a former Bengal player would just come out and say that the development currently sucks in Cincinnati. Lapham I think has been the only one willing to flat out say that, but he was never coached by the Marvin Lewis crew.

He did PA after he left, but he can't blast current staff because bengals brass pays him. So he usually does it with little jabs vs upper cuts like with PA after he left, even tho he seen it during his time and never said anything. 

[yellowxdiscipline]

Its sad for us, but good for him, that a player like Bodine who we all thought was trash can end up some where and salvage his career. Just puts more light on the incompetence that works in the executive offices of PBS. They'll never be able to get it right.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-06-2018, 07:07 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Wasn't PA the one who stated he couldn't coach guys up during the season ?

He sure was.....and our current line coach said the complete opposite earlier this season about someone....can't recall the exact conversation now.  Alexander was a lazy schlub his last few years here.....and thought he was untouchable.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-07-2018, 10:06 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Its sad for us, but good for him, that a player like Bodine who we all thought was trash can end up some where and salvage his career. Just puts more light on the incompetence that works in the executive offices of PBS. They'll never be able to get it right.

Exactly.....how in the hell do you keep a coach like this for 23 years?  TWENTY THREE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[THE PISTONS]

(12-07-2018, 10:17 AM)Wyche Wrote: Exactly.....how in the hell do you keep a coach like this for 23 years?  TWENTY THREE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Credit to the Bengals for admitting that the 23 year trial wasn't working and moving on. Many teams would give the same coach 45-50 years before they moved on. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-07-2018, 10:17 AM)Wyche Wrote: Exactly.....how in the hell do you keep a coach like this for 23 years?  TWENTY THREE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's dumbfounding ! Just pathetic

Just look at how long we've had to endure Marvin Lewis, and probably aren't done yet !

You couldn't make this into a book it's to unbelievable.

[fredtoast]

(12-06-2018, 11:04 PM)SladeX Wrote: For christ sakes, dude, it took the Cowboys all of 7 games to see the truth about PA, while it took Brown (Lewis?) YEARS and YEARS.

(12-06-2018, 06:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: For the 8 year period from '07 through '15 PFF ranked the Bengals O-line number one in the league in pass protection.  And PFF's unit rankings are not based on the same subjective formula as the individual rankings that I rail against all the time.

It worked for years before it went bad.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Quote:“It wasn’t anything particularly that [McCarthy] did wrong, I just felt that the message had become stale and we needed a new voice."

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-07-2018, 11:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It worked for years before it went bad.

Problem being it went bad waaayyyyyy before they admitted it and we see this time and time and time and time again !

[Bengalholic]

(12-06-2018, 11:20 PM)BengalChris Wrote: How long before someone decides it's the fan's fault for wanting Bodine gone after 4 years of horrid play?

Evidently, Bodine's replacement is feeling some heat:

"Yeah, I go to Kroger's and people have issues, so it's fun. You laugh but I'm serious."

“I overset a guy and gave up a sack and everybody wants my head."

- Billy Price

[THE PISTONS]

(12-07-2018, 01:38 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Evidently, Bodine's replacement is feeling some heat:

"Yeah, I go to Kroger's and people have issues, so it's fun. You laugh but I'm serious."

“I overset a guy and gave up a sack and everybody wants my head."

- Billy Price

Price is young enough to still improve...He's probably the least of my worries. Although, he could still not pan out.

[thillan]

Man, that means Ogbuehi is gonna go somewhere next and become a top 5 lineman in the NFL.

But seriously, I'm kinda disgusted at this. PA was here for decades, and it's not just lineman that I see us just waste away.

What an organization. Would be a dream for Mike to read these message boards and see how bad it's been. Clean the house, bring some new talent in, and build from the ground up.

[XsandOs]

(12-06-2018, 04:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: Look no further than Russell Bodine as proof to what ails this team:



NO SACKS!!!!!


Seriously.....WTF.  He was among the league's worst centers when he was here!  Kind of solidifies what we said about Piano Paul, and about Merv's staff in general to this day.

PA's power blocking used off man vertical sets, which requires a lot of skill. In pass situations, only the C is at the line of scrimmage. Both guards and both tackles line up at least one yard behind the line.

This puts a lot of pressure on the C, who has to snap, kick back and reset. But regardless, the OL drops back and anchor about 4 yards behind the line.

Don't know what the guy in Buffalo runs, but I bet he preaches his OL to jump their guy, with the tackles at 45. Exposes them to counter and stunts, but the LT and LG gets charged with the sacks - generally not the C.   

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-07-2018, 02:42 PM)thillan Wrote: Man, that means Ogbuehi is gonna go somewhere next and become a top 5 lineman in the NFL.

But seriously, I'm kinda disgusted at this. PA was here for decades, and it's not just lineman that I see us just waste away.

What an organization. Would be a dream for Mike to read these message boards and see how bad it's been. Clean the house, bring some new talent in, and build from the ground up.

LOL.....I don't think Vince Lombardi could get anything out of Og.  

(12-07-2018, 02:42 PM)XsandOs Wrote: PA's power blocking used off man vertical sets, which requires a lot of skill. In pass situations, only the C is at the line of scrimmage. Both guards and both tackles line up at least one yard behind the line.

This puts a lot of pressure on the C, who has to snap, kick back and reset. But regardless, the OL drops back and anchor about 4 yards behind the line.

Don't know what the guy in Buffalo runs, but I bet he preaches his OL to jump their guy, with the tackles at 45. Exposes them to counter and stunts, but the LT and LG gets charged with the sacks - generally not the C.   

Good insight on Buffalo....could be right.  However, it begs the question....if your players are struggling to play in your scheme, why not change it up to fit your personnel?  Seems archaic and stubborn to me.

[XsandOs]

(12-07-2018, 02:52 PM)Wyche Wrote: LOL.....I don't think Vince Lombardi could get anything out of Og.  


Good insight on Buffalo....could be right.  However, it begs the question....if your players are struggling to play in your scheme, why not change it up to fit your personnel?  Seems archaic and stubborn to me.

I agree. Scheme should be tailored to personnel.

Pollack is using Jump and 45, mainly, but you see some vertical, depending on the opponent.

I think another year with this group and a couple of new pieces, we should be fine.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-07-2018, 03:00 PM)XsandOs Wrote: I agree. Scheme should be tailored to personnel.

Pollack is using Jump and 45, mainly, but you see some vertical, depending on the opponent.

I think another year with this group and a couple of new pieces, we should be fine.

I think it showed some improvement last season when Lazor mixed it up.  This was just one of the many reasons I wanted to move on from PA for the better part of 5 years.

I also agree about the current situation and adding another piece or two.  Ideally, a top notch LT, and moving Glenn to RT would be something I would like to be able to do.  What would be your thoughts on that?

Also, great analysis on picking out these schemes, and who's using what.  You've pointed out something about what Pollack is doing that I hadn't noticed.