How Many Players Away Do YOU Think We Are?

[THE PISTONS]

(12-15-2018, 12:53 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: DreK - Not good.  Overpaid.  Cut and sign another FA
Dennard - Lacking NFL starting talent.  Let him walk.
Burfict - Undisciplined and neutered by the league.  Cut.
M. Johnson - Overpaid and inconsistent.  Cut.
Bobby Hart - Just terrible.

That's 5 starters that need to be upgraded via FA or draft.

Billings is feeling more and more like a bust to me and the biggest reason our D-line has been underwhelming.

Whether Glasgow, Ringo, or whoever can make up for it is a big question mark.

Glenn - Underwhelming
Brown - Flashed some but underwhelming as well

That's a lot of work!

They need to ditch Ced O, Redmond, and Fisher for various reasons.

They aren't even good depth players.

Then there's Andre Smith?  Is he done in the NFL or can he contribute/start?

Doesn't it feel to you like the list of needs we had going into last offseason actually got bigger going into this offseason?

[THE PISTONS]

(12-15-2018, 01:42 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Was that Hue...  or the OC Haley?

It's the same thing here. When the offense is bad people blame Marvin, but Lazor calls the plays. I guess at some level...it's hard to really say.

[McC]

(12-15-2018, 02:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think we're all basically at similar spots. So we need to replace 7 of 22 starters.

And I read on here that some people say our roster has a lot of talent. Needing 7 new starters screams rebuild.

Yes, but is there talent that's been poorly harvested? 

[THE PISTONS]

(12-15-2018, 02:04 PM)McC Wrote: Yes, but is there talent that's been poorly harvested? 

Possibly. That's why I noted guys like Price and Ross that could potentially improve.

There is no guarantee that new coaches make guys better. Look at the OL. Some guys actually got worse.

I tend to think that Ross is misused, has mental issues adjusting to the NFL, and was probably drafted way to high leading to high expectations for instance. Some of that can be fixed.

I also don't think that any coach will make Hart a good Tackle or keep Glenn healthy as he's been injured each of the past 3 years.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-15-2018, 02:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Doesn't it feel to you like the list of needs we had going into last offseason actually got bigger going into this offseason?

Yes, but mostly because of unexpected lack of performance by FA and current players.

Glenn looked to be an above average upgrade.  Not a Whit replacement but definitely a big plus considering our draft choice Og is a bust.

Brown was certainly supposed to be an upgrade to any LBers not named Burfict.

Burfict's play fell off a cliff.  Did we expect him to be out of shape or rusty?  Sure.  Just not looking like a "has been".

Billings looked like a beast in pre-season.  Like the NT we'd always hoped for.

So all of those things mentioned were unknown entities that bit this team hard this year.

Then there were injuries piled on top of that.


I don't know about most but I'm done with Burfict now, and Billings should have to fight for his position to start, going forward.

Glenn and Brown could still be decent starters.  Could still even be good.  

So yes.  The list seems bigger but there are still some unknown FAs we have that could pan out.

[J24]

4
RT, TE, and 2 LB.
If Westerman isn't moved to RG then RG but hopefully whoever is coach next season does the right thing and starts him over Redmond.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-15-2018, 04:04 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 4
RT, TE, and 2 LB.
If Westerman isn't moved to RG then RG but hopefully whoever is coach next season does the right thing and starts him over Redmond.

Changing HC and it not being Hue could be quite the mix up.

Just getting a new DC could be a major shake up on defense if not hired from within.

Of course I realize the chance of Marvin coming back is pretty high and Hue getting the gig is too.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-15-2018, 12:29 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m not writing John Ross off just yet. I think he can be a good #3WR if he’s used properly. Just need the coaches capable of doing it.

TE is more of a want than a need, imo. Having Kroft and Uzo our there might not win us games, but they’re not going to cost us any either. Not like a few of the guys on the OL, and every LB not named Nick Vigil.

Actually, TE is a bit of a need.  Not only is Eifert's career washed up due to injuries, but Kroft seems to get injured just as often.  Every now and again, we see a really good play from Uzomah, but he's much too inconsistent to be relied upon as the primary TE. And Shrek? He's injured too.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-15-2018, 04:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, TE is a bit of a need.  Not only is Eifert's career washed up due to injuries, but Kroft seems to get injured just as often.  Every now and again, we see a really good play from Uzomah, but he's much too inconsistent to be relied upon as the primary TE.  And Shrek?  He's injured too.

If they want to keep Dalton and give him a fair shake they'd better get consistency at the TE position.  That's for sure.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-15-2018, 11:58 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I remember last year - PFF had 7-8 of our starters ranked in the 40's/50's which is low. People thought we just needed to get rid of Alexander and the line would improve drastically. This year, it rates out about the same.

Some thought with 1-2 additions that the team would be a contender this year. We're obviously not.

So what are your thoughts? How many upgrades do we need?

I'd say we need at minimum:
-3 upgrades on the offensive line - (1 could be Price improving his play)
-1 starting TE (not Eifert. Time to move on)
-3rd WR - (Maybe Ross improves into that role. We definitely need more production out of that spot.)

On Defense
-2 LBs - I'll count Vigil as being ok for next year assuming we can upgrade the other 2 spots.
-DT? - We could use another Good DT. The guys we have next to Geno are average at best. Maybe Glasgow recovers and it's him?
-CB - Outside of Jackson, we need another CB to play more capable. Maybe the pass rush helps that?

That's a lot of needs for 1 year.

I agree with your thoughts pretty much on how many players we need.

In the end good coaching is what needs to happen. I think for the most part the talent is there for a good coach
to make us a contender. Obviously Marv is not that coach nor are any of the Defensive coaches, all of them need
to go. I still have hopes for Ross, Billings, Glasgow and Willis. We just need some decent coaches here.

When we get Lawson back our pass rush will improve.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-15-2018, 04:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, TE is a bit of a need.  Not only is Eifert's career washed up due to injuries, but Kroft seems to get injured just as often.  Every now and again, we see a really good play from Uzomah, but he's much too inconsistent to be relied upon as the primary TE. And Shrek? He's injured too.

Not sure I really agree Uzomah is inconsistent. He’s just not ever going to be confused for an elite TE.

[Nicomo Cosca]

The Rams for example don’t really have much at TE, yet are one of the best teams in the league this season.

I wouldn’t be opposed to grabbing one as long as we address the bigger needs first.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-15-2018, 04:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Rams for example don’t really have much at TE, yet are one of the best teams in the league this season.

I wouldn’t be opposed to grabbing one as long as we address the bigger needs first.

Higbee is a hell of a player.  He doesn't have great numbers, because the Rams offense doesn't call many plays his direction.  But, have you ever watched him?  He's a heck of a blocker.  I wouldn't care if the Bengals traded both Kroft and Uzomah for Higbee.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-15-2018, 04:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Rams for example don’t really have much at TE, yet are one of the best teams in the league this season.

I wouldn’t be opposed to grabbing one as long as we address the bigger needs first.

It is a really deep Draft at TE anyways. Could get a damn good one in the 4th round i bet.

[McC]

I said we need seven uprgrades. But that doesn't mean we couldn't be a contender if only, say, five got filled.

[Whatever]

(12-15-2018, 11:58 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I remember last year - PFF had 7-8 of our starters ranked in the 40's/50's which is low. People thought we just needed to get rid of Alexander and the line would improve drastically. This year, it rates out about the same.

Some thought with 1-2 additions that the team would be a contender this year. We're obviously not.

So what are your thoughts? How many upgrades do we need?

I'd say we need at minimum:
-3 upgrades on the offensive line - (1 could be Price improving his play)
-1 starting TE (not Eifert. Time to move on)
-3rd WR - (Maybe Ross improves into that role. We definitely need more production out of that spot.)

On Defense
-2 LBs - I'll count Vigil as being ok for next year assuming we can upgrade the other 2 spots.
-DT? - We could use another Good DT. The guys we have next to Geno are average at best. Maybe Glasgow recovers and it's him?
-CB - Outside of Jackson, we need another CB to play more capable. Maybe the pass rush helps that?

That's a lot of needs for 1 year.

It's tough to say for a couple of reasons, mainly injuries and roster age.

On the OL, I think we can all agree that Hart isn't the answer at RT.  So that's one.  Redmond would have to show a ton of growth, so I think we can say RG, also.  Price is going to get another year, Bolling is solid, and they invested a lot in Glenn.  So that's realistically 2, although maybe only one if Westerman is the answer at G.  Since Glenn's struggles are with speed, you could also potentially get better results getting a LT and moving him to RT.

TE is a need if for no other reason than our top 3 are UFA's next year.

At WR, they are going to give Ross the chance to continue to develop.  A lot of us wrote Boyd off last year, and look what he's done this year.  WR is definitely a position where it takes most players time to develop.

At LB, they desperately need at least one guy than can handle TE's and RB's in man, arguably two.  Jefferson may fill one of those spots, but is young and unproven.

Billings has a 70.9 PFF grade, which is considered above average.  I don't see DT as a huge need, but it could be improved.

Edge rusher is more of a concern to me.  When Lawson went down, Geno's sacks dried up. However, Lawson should bounce back and Hubbard has shown some flashes.  We can probably roll with the youth, here.

CB is another spot where we have a lot of young guys.  Dre's been playing hurt most of the year.  It's a spot where I would look for an established vet on a 1-2 year deal.

Realistically, we're looking at replacements at RG, RT, TE, nickel CB, and 2 LB's.  You could probably roll with what we have at RG if you upgrade RT and between Jefferson's development and Vigil at least being serviceable, one LB if you had to.

[THE PISTONS]

It's always funny to me that people pencil a guy like Jefferson in next year as a possible quality starter when coaches don't even put him on the field.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-15-2018, 07:40 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's always funny to me that people pencil a guy like Jefferson in next year as a possible quality starter when coaches don't even put him on the field.

And in a situation where they are in dire need of production at the position.

The guy must really stink or be dumber than a box of rocks.

This team should never pick a raw LB.  NEVER !!


Just thinking about the pick and not even getting him on the field pisses me off.

[TheBengalsMind]

The Bengals had created the NFL’s youngest roster with an average age of 25.2, I think the Browns eventually eclipsed us.

But a lot of teams in the top 10 have had extreme high peaks, but extremely low valleys. Like the Cowboys, Bengals, Browns and Colts. The Bengals being the only one of the 4 teams to start fast, but progressively get worse. The Colts, Cowboys and Browns had started slow, but have ended well.

Quarterback - Andy Dalton (High quality starter, top 10), Jeff Driskel (Capable backup). No needs.

RB - Joe Mixon (Has been above average to good starter, but injuries kept him from reaching great to elite level), Gio Bernard (Has also been an above average RB this year) Mark Walton (Ok, 3rd string RB). Bengals have two backs that fill nearly identical rows, could use someone like Benny Snell if he's still there in 3rd round, colleges best short yardage back in years, has similar running style to Corey Dillon. Fits perfect for AFC North football.

WR - AJ Green (Elite), Tyler Boyd (Good, high quality starter), John Ross (Below average, still very raw and still has potential), Alex Erickson (Below average, has high ST and returner capabilities, overall excellent 4-5 on depth chart guy).

Bengals have a number of developmental, younger players at WR. Bengals have a lot of stake in John Ross developing. I like drafting someone like Jesper Horsted from Princeton. He's about 6'3 to 6'4, about 230 pounds and runs in the 4.4 range. Can probably be had in 3rd or 4th round hopefully.

TE - Tyler Eifert (Elite, for his two games a year), Tyler Kroft (average), C.J. Uzomah (average).

Bengals also have a lot of younger developmental players at TE, but could definitely use a Delanie Walker or Jesse James in free agency. If we keep Kroft, which we should, Walker, even though in the latter stages of his career, would be an excellent pickup.

C - Billy Price (injuries played a big part, but honestly below average). The emphasis placed on established veterans over promising prospects is greater than ever as the collegiate game struggles to produce NFL ready-made offensive linemen.

Guard - Clint Boling (Average), Trey Hopkins (Average), Alex Redmon (Below average), Christian Westerman (Has looked good in small playing time, but doesn't have enough to warrant anything above being Average)

Tackle - Bobby Hart (poor), Ced Ogbuehi (poor), Cordy Glenn (Average), Jake Fisher (Average, but rarely healthy), Andre Smith (Average).

The Bengals offensive line has been below average, but still somehow better then last year. I think seeing what Westerman can do or moving Glenn to guard isn't out of the realm of possibility these last few games.

If Ty Sambrailo and Ereck Flowers both make it to free agency they can play tackle and help us out, both can be had cheaper and fit more into a Bengals signing. I expect us to draft at least one offensive linemen.

Bengals are pretty set at skill positions and quarterback, but can use a little more help on the offense line. Offense is in solid position overall. A lot of our younger guys ought to get better.

DE - Carlos Dunlap (Good starter), Carl Lawson (Good starter, elite rushing off edge at LB, injuries derailed this year), Michael Johnson (below average), Sam Hubbard (Average) Jordan Willis (below average).

We could really use another pure DE.

DT - Geno Atkins (Elite), Ryan Glasgow (Above average to good, before tearing his ACL), Andrew Billings (average), Niles Scott (at 280 pounds, he could be a very good DE, but average DT) Josh Tupou (Average).

Wouldn't hurt picking one up or drafting one.

LB - Nick Vigil (Good starter, very quietly developing into Jim Leclair type middle linebacker), Vincent Rey (below average), Jordan Evan's (poor), Perston Brown (below average, had 144 last year and has completely regressed under Lewis and company), Hardy Nickerson (poor), Vontaze Burfict (below average).

Easily worst position on team, Jim Haslet along with everybody not named Vigil should be shown the door. Marvin Lewis should be fired from HC, then hired as GM and be immediately fired from GM for assembling this unit together.

Josh Allen should be the Bengals first pick. Deone Bucannon a hybrid safety/linebacker can be got through free agency and will immediately improve our linebackers coverage ability. Draft another linebacker or two or get some in free agency.

S - Jesse Bates (Great starter), Shawn Williams (Solid average safety), Clayton Fejedelem (Arguably best depth player on team). Could use another good safety.

CB - Dre Kirkpatrick (Average), Darqueze Dennard (average), William Jackson (Good, high quality starter, but is more suited for man-to-man coverage), Harris (unknown haven't seen him).

The rest are below average CB's. Jason Varret has had injury problems, but if the Bengals could get him on a cap friendly 3 year deal, it could be a steal. We will probably also draft one.

Just going off the top of my head this is how I feel about our roster.

It's not terrible at all, a overhaul of the coaching staff and a few players could be all that is needed.

[*jason*]

(12-15-2018, 04:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Rams for example don’t really have much at TE, yet are one of the best teams in the league this season.

I wouldn’t be opposed to grabbing one as long as we address the bigger needs first.

Outside of KC, Philly, NE, Tampa, and Indy nobody has much at TE. Having a stud there definitely helps an offense, and a QB though. Andy Dalton is a different player when Tyler Eifert is out there. It might not be their biggest need, but I really would've liked OJ Howard instead of John Ross.