More Creativity Needed on Offense

[THE PISTONS]

(12-18-2018, 01:37 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I haven't been the biggest Lazor fan by any means. But I think he called a good enough game against Oakland.

One gripe many have right now is why not use Triskel's athleticism more, in terms of rollouts/rpo/etc instead of just dropping back traditionally. But maybe Lazor just doesn't have that experience in calling an offense like that, or knowing how to design plays for that style of offense? I don't know.

Amazing how OC's look like better playcallers against 3-11 teams isn't it?

[No-huddle Joe]

(12-18-2018, 12:00 PM)jason Wrote: Gotta clean some things up, and do a better job on 3rd down.

Oops, forgot to add the clapping...

[fredtoast]

(12-18-2018, 12:49 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Fred, not sure if you watched the Oakland game, but that is pretty much what we did on 2nd down.  2nd and long we ran the ball almost the entire game.

And we won.  So what is the problem?  We obviously don't do it that much every game.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-18-2018, 02:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Amazing how OC's look like better playcallers against 3-11 teams isn't it?

Exactly !

A lot of people claiming this team, defense, offense, DC, and so on are turning it around. It's smoke and mirrors, it's fools gold ! Marvin, Lazor the whole bunch get outcoached against all but the bottom half of the league and have for 16 ***** years !

[THE PISTONS]

(12-18-2018, 02:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly !

A lot of people claiming this team, defense, offense, DC, and so on are turning it around. It's smoke and mirrors, it's fools gold ! Marvin, Lazor the whole bunch get outcoached against all but the bottom half of the league and have for 16 ***** years !

As Bengals fans...we move the target that we're shooting the arrow a lot.

In the midst of losing 7 of 8...we see threads pop-up about how a close loss to the Chargers means we can win a playoff game if we win out.

Crazy stuff. We look for the slightest glimmer of hope and cling to it.

The Raiders are a team tanking for a Top 3 pick.

[Atomic Orange]

(12-18-2018, 02:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly !

A lot of people claiming this team, defense, offense, DC, and so on are turning it around. It's smoke and mirrors, it's fools gold ! Marvin, Lazor the whole bunch get outcoached against all but the bottom half of the league and have for 16 ***** years !

It's true the majority of the Merv .500's wins have come against .500 and slightly above/below teams with a few shockers against top teams sprinkled in there. 

[J24]

(12-18-2018, 03:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: As Bengals fans...we move the target that we're shooting the arrow a lot.

In the midst of losing 7 of 8...we see threads pop-up about how a close loss to the Chargers means we can win a playoff game if we win out.

Crazy stuff. We look for the slightest glimmer of hope and cling to it.

The Raiders are a team tanking for a Top 3 pick.

They just defeated the Steelers and have a QB who is on a hot streak. 

[ezekiel23]

I have noticed Lazor recently using our backs very little on passing downs.And they have good success when Driskel rolls out of the pocket and hits Mixon or Gio out of the backfield.I would have Driskel using his legs more,rolling out,and even running the ball a little more.He had a couple key guns in that last game for first downs.Especially when Tyler Boyd had to leave the game,I would for sure include my running backs more in the passing game to give us a better chance.For sure,you can’t count on Cody Core or John Ross to get anything done.They are decoys at best.Some of the worst I’ve ever seen.That said,like was mentioned earlier,I don’t think Ross is being used properly or he might be pretty decent,if that were the case.

[SnakeEyez925]

(12-18-2018, 01:37 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I haven't been the biggest Lazor fan by any means. But I think he called a good enough game against Oakland.

One gripe many have right now is why not use Triskel's athleticism more, in terms of rollouts/rpo/etc instead of just dropping back traditionally. But maybe Lazor just doesn't have that experience in calling an offense like that, or knowing how to design plays for that style of offense? I don't know.

I am actually baffled by this as well.... I fully expected more of a "Lamar Jackson" looking attack once Driskel became the starter.  Instead we see him go 14/33 vs. Oakland on mostly drop back style passes.  If you take away some of the screen completions, he was extremely bad as far as accuracy goes.  He missed at least 6 passes way over targets' heads. 

I don't believe that was a true indication of him as a passer, because he is better than that... but where did the RPO's go now that there is a QB capable of being a run threat on the keeper? Where are some designed QB runs, more bootleg type pass options where he can choose to pull it down and be an athlete?

I'm not saying get him killed by running QB Power's like Cam Newton, but locking him in the pocket with a below average OL and your 3rd line of pass catchers is not a great recipe for success from the outside looking in  

Lazor had a QB in Miami with this kind of skill set in 14/15... Tannehill.  Tannehill pre-ACL injuries was a pretty damn good runner (former college WR) and he was labeled as more of an athlete than a great QB in his early years, but he still put up some outstanding numbers with Lazor as OC.  

I thought this would translate well for Driskel's prospects but it hasn't materialized yet. 

[Au165]

(12-18-2018, 04:42 PM)SnakeEyez925 Wrote: I am actually baffled by this as well.... I fully expected more of a "Lamar Jackson" looking attack once Driskel became the starter.  Instead we see him go 14/33 vs. Oakland on mostly drop back style passes.  If you take away some of the screen completions, he was extremely bad as far as accuracy goes.  He missed at least 6 passes way over targets' heads. 

I don't believe that was a true indication of him as a passer, because he is better than that... but where did the RPO's go now that there is a QB capable of being a run threat on the keeper? Where are some designed QB runs, more bootleg type pass options where he can choose to pull it down and be an athlete.  

I'm not saying get him killed by running QB Power's like Cam Newton, but locking him in the pocket with a below average OL and your 3rd line of pass catchers is not a great recipe for success from the outside looking in  

Lazor had a QB in Miami with this kind of skill set in 14/15... Tannehill.  Tannehill pre-ACL injuries was a pretty damn good runner (former college WR) and he was labeled as more of an athlete than a great QB in his early years, but he still put up some outstanding numbers with Lazor as OC.  

I thought this would translate well for Driskel's prospects but it hasn't materialized yet. 

Jackson has had to leave three games this season due to injuries. Now he has come back, but you think a back up QB is bad? Wait until you see the back up to the back up after you hurt the back up. This whole idea that you are going to run athletic QB's has been done before, Jackson will end up hurt eventually. Hits in the NFL are cumulative and in the end no QB lasts taking that many hits. Guys like Wilson survive because when he runs he gets down and doesn't take contact, that is a rare skill that apparently the Ravens aren't concerned with.

With that said we do run a lot of boot actions that move the pocket for him, have even done a few sprint outs. RPO is just a buzz word people throw out. It isn't a read option like a lot of people think it is, this is truly a run or hand off option not really a QB keeper (rare). When the Eagles made it a household term the QB didn't really run it was a read on the LB that was either a give or filling the slant behind the LB when he came down to contain the run or a bubble screen. In truth your just not going to install a whole new offense for the back up, especially when it won't be the offense your going to run next year when the starter returns. The Ravens were adding running plays for Jackson over time already working him in. They can easily make the jump because he will be there starter next year and that is the future, apparently, of their offense. 

[*ochocincos*]

Is there anywhere that states how many different play formations a team does in a game and how many times each one is done?
I've never paid close enough attention during a game to notice.

[HarleyDog]

(12-18-2018, 12:11 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Amen about Hue Jackson.  For as much shit as he gets as a HC, I thought he was a damn fine OC. 

I don’t know man. Losing as HC in Cleveland and them winning after his departure tells me he has his thumb on the OC. I am skeptical he can be a quality OC again. But I dislike him so my post is one sided. Even when I try to type anything positive about him, my fingers go numb and I start having chest pains.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-18-2018, 05:01 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I don’t know man. Losing as HC in Cleveland and them winning after his departure tells me he has his thumb on the OC. I am skeptical he can be a quality OC again. But I dislike him so my post is one sided. Even when I try to type anything positive about him, my fingers go numb and I start having chest pains.

LOL....I'm hearing you on that my brother.  From what I read, it seemed like Haley was doing some rather silly shit, and that Hue wanted to cater the offense more to Mayfield after Taylor went down, and that's what caused the internal turmoil.  I put up an article about it on some long since buried thread.  It made a little sense, as he and Haley were fired together, and the article stated that Kitchens went similar to what Hue wanted done.  If I was a NFL exec, Todd Haley wouldn't even be allowed to stand out front of my stadium.

[TheUberHuber]

Am i the only one who thinks running on 2nd and 10 is a good idea?    especially when you have a guy like mixon..


Obviously being too predictable is bad but gaining yards on 2nd down sets you up better on 3rd than an incomplete pass does..

[Au165]

(12-18-2018, 05:42 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: Am i the only one who thinks running on 2nd and 10 is a good idea?    especially when you have a guy like mixon..


Obviously being too predictable is bad but gaining yards on 2nd down sets you up better on 3rd than an incomplete pass does..

A lot of team believe that, I bet even more would with their back up QB playing. As the stats I posted though showed we really didn't start doing that until we had a multi score lead.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-18-2018, 03:30 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: It's true the majority of the Merv .500's wins have come against .500 and slightly above/below teams with a few shockers against top teams sprinkled in there. 

Spot on

(12-18-2018, 03:54 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: I have noticed Lazor recently using our backs very little on passing downs.And they have good success when Driskel rolls out of the pocket and hits Mixon or Gio out of the backfield.I would have Driskel using his legs more,rolling out,and even running the ball a little more.He had a couple key guns in that last game for first downs.Especially when Tyler Boyd had to leave the game,I would for sure include my running backs more in the passing game to give us a better chance.For sure,you can’t count on Cody Core or John Ross to get anything done.They are decoys at best.Some of the worst I’ve ever seen.That said,like was mentioned earlier,I don’t think Ross is being used properly or he might be pretty decent,if that were the case.

Right,

I'm not in any way impressed with Lazor and how he's dealt with our problems. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-18-2018, 05:01 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I don’t know man. Losing as HC in Cleveland and them winning after his departure tells me he has his thumb on the OC. I am skeptical he can be a quality OC again. But I dislike him so my post is one sided. Even when I try to type anything positive about him, my fingers go numb and I start having chest pains.

This is me too Harley,

Hue would be an upgrade over Lazor I'm sure. But I just don't want Hue around my team.

[fredtoast]

(12-18-2018, 03:30 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: It's true the majority of the Merv .500's wins have come against .500 and slightly above/below teams with a few shockers against top teams sprinkled in there. 

Here is a shocker for you.  Since Marvin took over only 4 teams (NE, Pitt, IND, DEN) in the league have more wins than the Bengals against teams that finished with a winning record.

The catch is that only two teams have played more games against teams that finished with a winning record.  Marvin's winning percentage is 12th best in the league.  Some would say that is right in his "just above average" wheelhouse.  I chose to say "almost top ten".

Still better than a lot of people think.

[Storer50]

Here's a shocker, Marvin Lewis and Bruce Coslett have the same amount of playoff wins.

Sent from my N9517 using Tapatalk

[HarleyDog]

(12-18-2018, 06:39 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: But I just don't want Hue around my team.

Me either. He’s a loser.