I think I know what might be really hindering this franchise. ( I might be wrong)

[Beaker]

(12-31-2018, 01:38 PM)McC Wrote: I think the negativity of all those empty seats might have had something to do with it.

Exactly. They spoke with their wallets, not by vocally b!tching on a website.

[Catmandude123]

(12-31-2018, 01:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: Marvin is gone....a positive step that I guarantee your b!tching had zero to do with. Hang onto your negativity though, I admire your tenacity in wanting to stay that way. We are getting a new coach for you to b!tch about.

If they stay a decade and a half and no playoff win then yes. You do realize that there are many outlets that are commented on the Bengals besides this one don't you. If you listen to talk radio the national sports outlets and other internet sites this has been a long time coming. We don't know whether the next coach is the answer or not but we were sure years ago Marvin wasn't.

[Beaker]

(12-31-2018, 01:44 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: We don't know whether the next coach is the answer or not but we were sure years ago Marvin wasn't.

But we do know you are likely to be among the first to throw him under the bus after his first loss.

[McC]

(12-31-2018, 01:39 PM)Beaker Wrote: Exactly. They spoke with their wallets, not by vocally b!tching on a website.

Oh, so there are different kinds of negativity.  I get it.  When you actually land on a stance and stick to it, let me know.  All this going in circles is making me dizzy.

[Beaker]

(12-31-2018, 01:46 PM)McC Wrote: Oh, so there are different kinds of negativity.  I get it.  When you actually land on a stance and stick to it, let me know.  All this going in circles is making me dizzy.

Dont blame me because simple concepts are hard for you to follow. Go back in this same thread and you'll see where we already discussed that speaking with your wallet is a better way to respond to your displeasure with the franchise than vocal negativity. 

You are now almost reaching catmandude status in your attempt to justify negativity rather than admit it contributes to the toxicity.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-31-2018, 01:53 PM)Beaker Wrote: Dont blame me because simple concepts are hard for you to follow. Go back in this same thread and you'll see where we already discussed that speaking with your wallet is a better way to respond to your displeasure with the franchise than vocal negativity. 

You are now almost reaching catmandude status in your attempt to justify negativity rather than admit it contributes to the toxicity.

Yet the worst result is apathy.

That kind of thing happens when someone let's go of their last shred of caring.

I'd much rather see someone remain a fan and voice their displeasure than them to give up.

That's why I am commenting here.

You just don't get the reality of the consequences for those others than your own.

I care about that.  

Much more than rants and displeasure with the team.

Get over yourself Beaker.

[Beaker]

(12-31-2018, 02:21 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Yet the worst result is apathy.

That kind of thing happens when someone let's go of their last shred of caring.

I'd much rather see someone remain a fan and voice their displeasure than them to give up.

That's why I am commenting here.

You just don't get the reality of the consequences for those others than your own.

I care about that.  

Much more than rants and displeasure with the team.

Get over yourself Beaker.

You act as if negativity or apathy are the only two ways to respond to displeasure with the franchise.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-31-2018, 01:39 PM)Beaker Wrote: Exactly. They spoke with their wallets, not by vocally b!tching on a website.

They're both still negative though. 

1. Don't go to games because you refuse to support crap.

2. Go on a message board and vent because you refuse to support crap. 


I wonder if there's still a negative toxicity surrounding the team?

I wonder if it mostly disappeared the moment it was announced Marv was out?

I wonder if there was ever really an air of negative toxicity in the first place if it can be gone that quick?


Actually, i don't wonder about any of those three things. I know the answer.

P.S. You better bet your ass that someone monitors social media to get the pulse of the fan base. Maybe it's just the Bengals facebook page. Maybe it's other places as well. But someone does. And if you've never read the Bengals facebook page...it's 100x worse than here, as far as negativity goes. 




So, to conclude this thread; you complained about complainers because you just didn't want to have to read so many posts of people complaining about how crappy they, marv and organization are (were). Voila, one move and people are magically happier and there are less vitriolic posts for you to read. 

[Beaker]

(01-01-2019, 10:47 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: They're both still negative though. 

I disagree. One is only negative to MBs wallet. If I don't go to games or buy merch, I am not consistently vocally bashing the team/franchise.

One does nothing but add to the negativity, the other gets MB to take notice. You decide which one is which.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-01-2019, 11:29 PM)Beaker Wrote: I disagree. One is only negative to MBs wallet. If I don't go to games or buy merch, I am not consistently vocally bashing the team/franchise.

One does nothing but add to the negativity, the other gets MB to take notice. You decide which one is which.

Disagree all you want. You don't have any idea about how much MB is affected by negative social media.

But to answer my question... Is there still an air of negative toxicity surrounding the team?

[Essex Johnson]

(12-29-2018, 12:43 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I don’t know. Seems the players in Cleveland have embraced that football team’s culture. They don’t have more to offer than Cincinnati.

Your post makes  no sense, the browns established the worst nfl record over a 15 yeatr period from 2003 to 17 they avg around 4 wins a season, what team culture have they embraced during rhat time.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-31-2018, 01:39 PM)Beaker Wrote: Exactly. They spoke with their wallets, not by vocally b!tching on a website.

You're being awfully toxic yourself right now. You're just aiming it at fans (from a really high horse) rather than the team. How about you take your own advice and remove yourself from the negativity rather than contribute to it? 

[Beaker]

(01-02-2019, 02:34 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You're being awfully toxic yourself right now. You're just aiming it at fans (from a really high horse) rather than the team. How about you take your own advice and remove yourself from the negativity rather than contribute to it? 

Funny how pointing out an unpleasant truth is considered being on a high horse. 

[Beaker]

(01-01-2019, 11:56 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: But to answer my question... Is there still an air of negative toxicity surrounding the team?

Yes. The amount has been reduced with ML going. But, read any of the forums around the coaching change and you will still see those who insist the Bengals will get it wrong. Why is it necessary to predict a negative outcome? That negativity still exists. As a fan I can choose to add to it, or keep my negativity to myself and see what the outcome truly is before I condemn it. 

[CJD]

The first step to building a winning culture is to have a QB that truly changes the way a team plays (both yours and your opponent's).

When we get that, we may begin building a new culture.

It began to happen with Carson, but then injuries took hold.

It won't happen with Dalton because he's simply good, not great.

This is how the NFL works.

Elite QBs build franchises.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-02-2019, 09:03 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The first step to building a winning culture is to have a QB that truly changes the way a team plays (both yours and your opponent's).

When we get that, we may begin building a new culture.

It began to happen with Carson, but then injuries took hold.

It won't happen with Dalton because he's simply good, not great.

This is how the NFL works.

Elite QBs build franchises.

Palmer was good before injury but elite, he also played plenty of years after injury so it did not hold him back and look at his overall success as a QB, had had 1 playoff win in his 14 year career far removed from elite.  Finally you use the word elite way to broadly.  How many elite QBs really are there in a given decade... If you have 32 teams, really you are lucky to have 20 percent of those QBs be considered elite.  Not like the other 80 percent of teams is crop liver.  Todays game has changed, teams are going from basement to division title town the next year without elite QBs.. Maybe Dalton was held back by Marvin...We will really find out with Dalton with a new coach if he can move the needle.. Carson had 3/4 coaches I believe during his career and never did move the needle .

[CJD]

(01-02-2019, 01:56 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Palmer was good before injury but elite, he also played plenty of years after injury so it did not hold him back and look at his overall success as a QB, had had 1 playoff win in his 14 year career far removed from elite.  Finally you use the word elite way to broadly.  How many elite QBs really are there in a given decade... If you have 32 teams, really you are lucky to have 20 percent of those QBs be considered elite.  Not like the other 80 percent of teams is crop liver.  Todays game has changed, teams are going from basement to division title town the next year without elite QBs.. Maybe Dalton was held back by Marvin...We will really find out with Dalton with a new coach if he can move the needle.. Carson had 3/4 coaches I believe during his career and never did move the needle .

At the end of 2004 and for all of 2005, Carson was legitimately elite. He was never the same after Kimo rolled over his knee.
It was a very small window, but it was there.

As for elite QBs in the NFL, maybe it has more to do with young, cheap QBs. 

The Ravens, Texans, Chiefs, Rams, Cowboys, Eagles and Bears are helmed by rookie contract QBs.

The Saints, Patriots, Colts, Chargers and Seahawks are led by QBs who are all in the top 12 of QB rating this year.

In total, 9 of the top 12 QBs are playoff QBs, with just the Ravens, Bears and Cowboys QBs falling below the top 12.

Today's NFL definitely revolves around QBs.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-29-2018, 11:37 PM)Whatever Wrote: Well, certainly, it would be a lot easier to be supportive if the team if they had more playoff success.  I certainly understand why the fanbase is negative.  But the fanbase is negative and toxic because they choose to be negative and toxic.  Other teams have been worse and still turn out to support their team better than we do.

Are the fans justified in having a toxic attitude?  Yes.  But it's still our choice to be toxic.  The FO, coaches, players, and fans are all a part of that culture.  

You know what, yeah, screw that star player that doesn't want to come here and play in a half full stadium for fans who won't buy his jersey.  He just doesn't get it.  He doesn't know what we've been through.  We don't need guys like that.  We're gonna build through the draft and I'm sure there's some 2nd and 3rd tier FA's that will just be glad to have a paycheck that will come help put this team over the top.  

That's the thing with players that can put a team over the top.  They tend to have options.  That means they have to actually want to come play for you as opposed to someone else.  Our actions as a fanbase are counterproductive to what we would like to see happen.

What????
Try getting a FO that's willing to pay that player to come here and put us over the Top, then we can talk about how the fans react.

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2019, 09:03 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: It won't happen with Dalton because he's simply good, not great.

This is how the NFL works.

Elite QBs build franchises.

No that is not how it works

Philip Rivers has been in the NFL since 2004 with zero Super Bowl appearances.  Over that same time Matt Hasselbeck, Rex Grossman, Joe Flacco, Colin Kaepernick, and Nick Foles have all started Super Bowls.

Eli Manning has won more Super Bowls than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2019, 05:10 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: At the end of 2004 and for all of 2005, Carson was legitimately elite. He was never the same after Kimo rolled over his knee.

In '06 Palmer was 2nd in the league in passing tds, 6th in passer rating and he had MORE passing yards than he did in '05.