I think we should trade Dalton and Green

[Essex Johnson]

(01-05-2019, 10:51 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I think everyone knows I'm a big Dalton homer but I think we should move on from him and Green. I think we can build a team around them, but Green is getting older and injury prone and Dalton will probably trade for a good amount of value. We could fill some pretty big holes we have on the team right now. We would probably be able to have 3 first round picks the next couple of drafts and maybe the same with 2nd rounder with them. I think that we could draft Haskins and build our OL up. Be more of a running offense for a year or two to help Haskins develop. I think it will also help the new HC build a team that he wants and get rid of any Lewis stink we have left.

I actually see the opposite, if we assume Lewis has been holding this team back.. then im excited about a new coach coming in with two key pieces in place  QB and #1 WR to move us and them to the next level

[ezekiel23]

Just look no further than the New England Patriots as a prime example of how to properly build a team consistantly,and not have to go through a total rebuild.It seems like Mike Brown could learn something from them.And yes,the Bengals could help themselves a lot with free agency,but Mike Brown doesn’t like to go that route.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-05-2019, 08:39 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Just look no further than the New England Patriots as a prime example of how to properly build a team consistantly,and not have to go through a total rebuild.It seems like Mike Brown could learn something from them.And yes,the Bengals could help themselves a lot with free agency,but Mike Brown doesn’t like to go that route.

Patriots are the gold standard a lot of teams could use their model and if you follow Patriots model they dont splash much in big FAs

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Fix the trenches. Period. 

Get a game changer at backer to play with Brown and Vigil. Cut Burfict.

Trade up in a year or two when the QB pool is deeper and you should be set if they hit a home run with the head man and his staff.

It all has to start up front, Dalton is on a friendly salary. If the team turns the corner quickly....AJ Green just may take a home town discount on his next deal to  see this through. We all know what a gracious human being Adriel Jeremiah Green is.

[Bronxbengal]

(01-05-2019, 10:51 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I think everyone knows I'm a big Dalton homer but I think we should move on from him and Green. I think we can build a team around them, but Green is getting older and injury prone and Dalton will probably trade for a good amount of value. We could fill some pretty big holes we have on the team right now. We would probably be able to have 3 first round picks the next couple of drafts and maybe the same with 2nd rounder with them. I think that we could draft Haskins and build our OL up. Be more of a running offense for a year or two to help Haskins develop. I think it will also help the new HC build a team that he wants and get rid of any Lewis stink we have left.

Love it when OSU homers promote the next great player for the Bengals. For the record, the football world does not revolve around Columbus. Secondly, I want nothing to do with Haskins because he cannot handle the blitz. We had another QB with that problem in the 90’s. Lastly, there isn’t a QB in the draft who would be better than Dalton. I love these threads and I am glad none of you are GMs for the Bengals. You guys make Mike Brown look like a genius!


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[Fullrock]

(01-06-2019, 02:17 AM)Wyche Wrote: Fix the trenches. Period. 

Get a game changer at backer to play with Brown and Vigil. Cut Burfict.

Trade up in a year or two when the QB pool is deeper and you should be set if they hit a home run with the head man and his staff.

It all has to start up front, Dalton is on a friendly salary. If the team turns the corner quickly....AJ Green just may take a home town discount on his next deal to  see this through. We all know what a gracious human being Adriel Jeremiah Green is.

This is why I'm saying rebuild. In order to fix the trenches AND get a game changer at LB, they are going to have to be active in free agency, and I'm not talking signing the Bobby Hart's of the world, but actually signing impact players. I just don't think they'll do it because they have never done it. Nor do I think they will go the rebuild route. Instead they will sign a few retreads or players on the downside of their careers and try to fill holes with them and hope a few draft picks can help. The picks of Ogbuehi, Fisher, and Ross have put this team in a deep hole that they've been trying to dig themselves out of since. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-05-2019, 11:00 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I want to see what a new HC can do with this core (AJ, Geno, Andy, Dunlap) before we even think about tearing it all down and rebuilding. Especially now that we’ve added some nice young pieces like Boyd, Mixon, Bates, and WJ3.

What’s up with all these trade threads anyway?

I'm with this 100%.  We gave Pollack a chance to work the offensive line with his coaching style, and the rushing attack absolutely improved.  Mixon was the leading rusher in the AFC (despite not getting as many reps early)  and I believe his YPC was around 4.8?  That is a solid number.

I know everyone will kill the pass-blocking work of the offensive line, but I honestly don't believe that was all their fault. Dalton was having a career year statistically until his weapons started dropping like flies.  He had to hold the ball too long because guys simply weren't getting open.  Watching Seattle play offense last night (although they are hardly an offensive juggernaut) it appeared on passing downs that Wilson would get the snap, move the pocket and look for something downfield, then have a checkdown designed to the side he was scrambling.  It was usually just a 5 yard checkdown, but effective and low risk.  I hope our next OC has a late-release RB or TE as a checkdown for Dalton more often as it seems Andy had to go downfield or he was running for his life.  

The offense can certainly be very competitive.  The defense needs a major overhaul at LB.  Look at Dallas's LB crew of Smith, Lee, and LVE.  They are outstanding.  I would love to just have two very competent LBs.  I would go after a desirable FA, and draft one very early.  That will make the biggest impact on our defense.  If the easy checkdowns are better covered by a LB crew with some speed and instincts.  That, and a bit more aggressive scheme.  

I give the new coaching staff a shot.  Lots of people thought the Rams were dead from the neck up until they got rid of Fisher.  

[SunsetBengal]

(01-06-2019, 02:17 AM)Wyche Wrote: Fix the trenches. Period. 

Get a game changer at backer to play with Brown and Vigil. Cut Burfict.

Trade up in a year or two when the QB pool is deeper and you should be set if they hit a home run with the head man and his staff.

It all has to start up front, Dalton is on a friendly salary. If the team turns the corner quickly....AJ Green just may take a home town discount on his next deal to  see this through. We all know what a gracious human being Adriel Jeremiah Green is.

Looking like they're going to have to come up with two (2) starting LBs, as Preston Brown was only on a one year deal, and is currently a free agent.  If Brown returns to full health, I think that he showed enough in limited action this season to warrant offering him another contract.  Otherwise, I think that they'll have to draft one LB high, another later, and secure a stable vet from free agency.

We can all speculate until we're blue in the face, but we really won't have much clue as to what will really happen until the HC position is filled, and weather they allow the new HC to place his own staff or force the existing assistants upon him.  I agree with you though, rebuilding the OL is priority #1 for whomever takes the HC position.

[fozzie11]

(01-06-2019, 12:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Looking like they're going to have to come up with two (2) starting LBs, as Preston Brown was only on a one year deal, and is currently a free agent.  If Brown returns to full health, I think that he showed enough in limited action this season to warrant offering him another contract.  Otherwise, I think that they'll have to draft one LB high, another later, and secure a stable vet from free agency.

We can all speculate until we're blue in the face, but we really won't have much clue as to what will really happen until the HC position is filled, and weather they allow the new HC to place his own staff or force the existing assistants upon him.  I agree with you though, rebuilding the OL is priority #1 for whomever takes the HC position.

I'd still like to see what we have in Malik Jefferson at wlb after a full year under his belt. but I'm all for taking a second LB later personally i'd like White in RD1 and a FA like Anthony Barr

[SunsetBengal]

(01-06-2019, 12:08 PM)fozzie11 Wrote: I'd still like to see what we have in Malik Jefferson at wlb after a full year under his belt. but I'm all for taking a second LB later personally i'd like White in RD1 and a FA like Anthony Barr

I'm guessing not much.  For a guy drafted on athletic ability, rather than playmaking ability, he needed strong development from day 1.  So after a year of sitting on the bench, we just have a guy that runs fast and wears a football uniform.  It was quite telling to me that Nickerson kept getting extended action, while Jefferson continued to sit.  Nobody ever became a better football player, while sitting on the bench.

We really won't have a good idea of Jefferson's future, until the new HC comes in, sets his staff, and they do a full roster evaluation as part of their plan to move forward.  And, I'm really hoping that the new HC will be given control over assembling his own staff of assistants.

[fredtoast]

(01-06-2019, 11:12 AM)Fullrock Wrote:  The picks of Ogbuehi, Fisher, and Ross have put this team in a deep hole that they've been trying to dig themselves out of since. 

Then why trade proven players for more draft picks.

What do you think you will get for green and Dalton?

If you just get a first round pick for each then you will have less than a 50% chance of even replacing them with the draft picks you get.  You would have to get very lucky just to break even.

[fredtoast]

(01-06-2019, 12:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Nobody ever became a better football player, while sitting on the bench.

Sure they do.  It happens all the time.  It is not uncommon for a rookie who barely played to be much improved in his second year.

[BengalChris]

(01-06-2019, 12:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then why trade proven players for more draft picks.

What do you think you will get for green and Dalton?

If you just get a first round pick for each then you will have less than a 50% chance of even replacing them with the draft picks you get.  You would have to get very lucky just to break even.

I'm with Fred on this. Imagine that.

Phili turned it around, but they didn't do it by trading the likes of Jason Peters, Fetcher Cox or Zach Ertz. They did make some nice FA acquisitions though, like Alshon Jefferies and Nick Foles and traded for Golden Tate. They also had decent drafts.

While Dalton would yield a draft pick and he's really just average Joe at QB, he'd still have to be replaced. We are picking 11th, not 1st in the draft and we've got some serious holes on this team.

Why the team hasn't addressed the OL for the last several years is rather puzzling. The annual free agent signing of LBers cut by other teams hasn't yielded a winner yet.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-06-2019, 12:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sure they do.  It happens all the time.  It is not uncommon for a rookie who barely played to be much improved in his second year.

I'm not going to claim that 2nd year players don't emerge every year, because they do.  What I will propose is the idea that maybe those guys were just good football players to begin with, and simply had to wait their turn behind better talent?  I'm not sure that it can be argued that Jefferson is a really good football player who was simply waiting his turn to get into the game.  Did you see the LB crew that the Bengals fielded this season?  They kept putting Hardy Nickerson Jr. out there, and even gave him the helmet radio..

When Marvin assumed the role of DC for the rest of the season;  I wonder if he asked himself why his 3rd round LB, with phenomenal physical attributes, wasn't getting any action during a season that was obviously going nowhere?  

[OandB]

Not sure. When we were healthy, we were 4 - 1, with a defense that wasn't there. Austin was a complete bust. Injuries are what really hurt us this year.. 18 in total I believe.
I think that we are 1 to 2 OL and one bad MOFO MLB away from being back on top of the AFCN.

If Hue stays, I really hope its not as a HC.

[fozzie11]

(01-06-2019, 12:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not going to claim that 2nd year players don't emerge every year, because they do.  What I will propose is the idea that maybe those guys were just good football players to begin with, and simply had to wait their turn behind better talent?  I'm not sure that it can be argued that Jefferson is a really good football player who was simply waiting his turn to get into the game.  Did you see the LB crew that the Bengals fielded this season?  They kept putting Hardy Nickerson Jr. out there, and even gave him the helmet radio..

When Marvin assumed the role of DC for the rest of the season;  I wonder if he asked himself why his 3rd round LB, with phenomenal physical attributes, wasn't getting any action during a season that was obviously going nowhere?  

Tyler Boyd seems to be doing alright after almost no production his first 2 seasons, the NFL game is different than college, some players just need a little more time to learn it. he didn't win big12 player of the year for no reason, he has the tools just needs guidance to use them. Not to mention under marvin we didn't have the best track record for developing LBs

[SunsetBengal]

(01-06-2019, 01:07 PM)fozzie11 Wrote:
Tyler Boyd seems to be doing alright after almost no production his first 2 seasons, the NFL game is different than college, some players just need a little more time to learn it. he didn't win big12 player of the year for no reason, he has the tools just needs guidance to use them. Not to mention under marvin we didn't have the best track record for developing LBs

That is a bit of a misnomer.  Tyler Boyd had good numbers his rookie season, and then went on to have a bit of a 'Sophomore slump".

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-06-2019, 11:12 AM)Fullrock Wrote: This is why I'm saying rebuild. In order to fix the trenches AND get a game changer at LB, they are going to have to be active in free agency, and I'm not talking signing the Bobby Hart's of the world, but actually signing impact players. I just don't think they'll do it because they have never done it. Nor do I think they will go the rebuild route. Instead they will sign a few retreads or players on the downside of their careers and try to fill holes with them and hope a few draft picks can help. The picks of Ogbuehi, Fisher, and Ross have put this team in a deep hole that they've been trying to dig themselves out of since. 

I see your point....and I could go either way, to be honest.  If we stay the course, they'll need a home run FA or two....there is a lot of manuevering room if the proper drops are implemented to the current roster. You have to remember, there are quite a few free agents this upcoming season on our roster. We can shave salary.  Then, they'll need a day 1 impact player at one of the positions of need in the draft.

You couple this with a competent coaching staff, and you may be surprised what they could do.

(01-06-2019, 12:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Looking like they're going to have to come up with two (2) starting LBs, as Preston Brown was only on a one year deal, and is currently a free agent.  If Brown returns to full health, I think that he showed enough in limited action this season to warrant offering him another contract.  Otherwise, I think that they'll have to draft one LB high, another later, and secure a stable vet from free agency.

We can all speculate until we're blue in the face, but we really won't have much clue as to what will really happen until the HC position is filled, and weather they allow the new HC to place his own staff or force the existing assistants upon him.  I agree with you though, rebuilding the OL is priority #1 for whomever takes the HC position.

Absolutely....we're just spitballing.


As for Brown, he was hurt in game 1. Played hurt, sat out a few weeks, came back, went on IR. This was the first time in his career he's had issues like this. He's young, and perhaps most importantly, he wants to be here. It's his dream. I thought he was only on a 1 year deal....I'd considered that. Re sign Brown, cut Burfict.  When healthy, he led the NFL in tackles. Is he Jack Lambert? No. He is, however, typically available each week and a smart player. He also did manage to get two more INTs in limited action than our ENTIRE CB crew. He's solid. You need those guys. Keep him, Vigil, and get a playmaker at the other backer via FA or draft.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-06-2019, 02:54 PM)Wyche Wrote: I see your point....and I could go either way, to be honest.  If we stay the course, they'll need a home run FA or two....there is a lot of manuevering room if the proper drops are implemented to the current roster. You have to remember, there are quite a few free agents this upcoming season on our roster. We can shave salary.  Then, they'll need a day 1 impact player at one of the positions of need in the draft.

You couple this with a competent coaching staff, and you may be surprised what they could do.



Absolutely....we're just spitballing.


As for Brown, he was hurt in game 1. Played hurt, sat out a few weeks, came back, went on IR. This was the first time in his career he's had issues like this. He's young, and perhaps most importantly, he wants to be here. It's his dream. I thought he was only on a 1 year deal....I'd considered that. Re sign Brown, cut Burfict.  When healthy, he led the NFL in tackles. Is he Jack Lambert? No. He is, however, typically available each week and a smart player. He also did manage to get two more INTs in limited action than our ENTIRE CB crew. He's solid. You need those guys. Keep him, Vigil, and get a playmaker at the other backer via FA or draft.

You're exactly right, a player wanting to be here is a great benefit to the organization.  And, I also agree that it takes more than just superstars to win, you need good talent at your role player positions as well.

I just hope that the Bengals don't discourage Brown from re-signing with a low-ball offer, due to the injury.

[Atomic Orange]

(01-06-2019, 01:06 PM)OandB Wrote: Not sure. When we were healthy, we were 4 - 1, with a defense that wasn't there. 

Not only that but we did all of our scoring in 2.5 quarters before Marvin was shut down every damn game for 1.5 quarters after HT. All of the O's stats literally come from 2.5 quarters of play. Entire 3rd through middle 4th was a ***** dead zone and that is a coaching problem.

Not to mention Merv's automatic TO at the beginning of the game by deferring the ball every time he won the toss because we don't do shit in the 3rd quarter. When you don't have a damn defense you take the damn ball and try to go get momentum ffs.

But nope! Let's put it in the hands of a historically bad defense instead!

On what planet does that make sense???