New Coach and New Expectations

[thillan]

(01-13-2019, 10:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So clueless dumbass Marvin took over a 2-14 team that had not had a winning season in 12 years and improved 6 games to 8-8 his first year.

Now the new guy comes along and takes over a 6-10 team just three years removed from a 12-4 season and fans don't expect more than 9 wins his first year?

If Marvin was as bad as you all claim shouldn't you expect his replacement to be in the playoffs next year?

Man, you get angry so fast.

Marvin took over in 2002. The game was much different then. Clearly what he has been doing isn't working. So your first point is sentence is pointless.

No, the replacement doesn't have to hit the playoffs the first year. There are a lot of variables that go into it. 

Bill Belichick didn't start off so hot either during his time as a HC. 

[HarleyDog]

(01-13-2019, 10:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So clueless dumbass Marvin took over a 2-14 team that had not had a winning season in 12 years and improved 6 games to 8-8 his first year.

Now the new guy comes along and takes over a 6-10 team just three years removed from a 12-4 season and fans don't expect more than 9 wins his first year?

If Marvin was as bad as you all claim shouldn't you expect his replacement to be in the playoffs next year?

No. With Merv, the result was always the same. New coach, new life, new hope.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-13-2019, 10:46 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: The reason I stated that the Bengals may not have a winning season next year is because of so much change on staff.  I also think Taylor may purge some on the roster.  If I recall correct, Lewis had several coaches in place to help him with the transition.  

And a mostly built roster and the number 1 draft pick but that doesn't fit the narrative. 

[thillan]

(01-13-2019, 10:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And a mostly built roster and the number 1 draft pick but that doesn't fit the narrative. 

Boom.

[fredtoast]

(01-13-2019, 10:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And a mostly built roster and the number 1 draft pick but that doesn't fit the narrative. 

The roster from '02 was not as "mostly built" as this one is.  Marvin immediately lost the best player on offense (Dillon) and defense (Spikes),  And the #1 overall pick did not play a single down. 


But none of that fits your narrative

Seriously, if Marvin was a clueless dumbass coach and he went from 2-14 to 8-8 without a single snap from his first round pick then shouldn't Taylor have us in the playoffs next year? 

[fredtoast]

(01-13-2019, 10:58 PM)thillan Wrote: Boom.

Yeah, that number one overall pick was one of the main reasons the team went from 2-14 to 8-8.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-13-2019, 10:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The roster from '02 was not as "mostly built" as this one is and Marvin immediately lost the best player on offense (Dillon) and defense (Spikes), but that does not fit your narrative.

An offensive line needing two if not 3 starters. A LB corps needing two starters and backup's. The worst defense in the NFL ! Giant questions at TE and WR beyond #1 and #2. 

And you think the new HC is walking into a dream roster that is mostly built ?

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-13-2019, 11:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, that number one overall pick was one of the main reasons the team went from 2-14 to 8-8.

He was an aloof, separatist d1ckhead though. I saw him at Speedway in Covington one Saturday morning in '03 and said "glad to have you on the team. Good luck when you get your opportunity" and he acted like he didn't even hear me. 

We were the only 2 people in the vicinity and it was a tight space, before they did the remodel. 

[fredtoast]

(01-13-2019, 11:05 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And you think the new HC is walking into a dream roster that is mostly built ?

I think the new coach will get a roster than won 6 games while Marvin got a roster that won only 2 and immediately lost the best player on both offense and defense.

And I don't need to make a strawman to make my point.

[thillan]

(01-13-2019, 10:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The roster from '02 was not as "mostly built" as this one is.  Marvin immediately lost the best player on offense (Dillon) and defense (Spikes),  And the #1 overall pick did not play a single down. 


But none of that fits your narrative

Seriously, if Marvin was a clueless dumbass coach and he went from 2-14 to 8-8 without a single snap from his first round pick then shouldn't Taylor have us in the playoffs next year? 

Bill Belichick went 5-11 in NE his first year as their coach.

Is Marvin Lewis a better coach than Bill?

[fredtoast]

(01-13-2019, 11:09 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He was an aloof, separatist d1ckhead though. I saw him at Speedway in Covington one Saturday morning and said "glad to have you on the team. Good luck when you get your opportunity" and he acted like he didn't even hear me. 

We were the only 2 people in the vicinity and it was a tight space, before they did the remodel. 

The point that went over your head was that he did not play a single snap in 2003 when the Bengals went from 2-14 to 8-8.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-13-2019, 11:05 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: An offensive line needing two if not 3 starters. A LB corps needing two starters and backup's. The worst defense in the NFL ! Giant questions at TE and WR beyond #1 and #2. 

And you think the new HC is walking into a dream roster that is mostly built ?

The skill players in Cincinnati form a dream roster but the offensive line and defensive rosters are nightmares.

[mon4078]

The wins will depend on lots of factors, the new staff, if the front office improves the roster with a few O-line men and linebackers. If they do improve the roster, I don't see why we couldn't win 9 or 10 games. If they don't then we will be lucky to get eight wins.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-13-2019, 11:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The point that went over your head was that he did not play a single snap in 2003 when the Bengals went from 2-14 to 8-8.

The point never goes over my head, Fred. I understood what you were saying from jump. I just used the opportunity to tell my story. The part where i said "when you get your opportunity" should have been the tipoff.

[fredtoast]

(01-13-2019, 11:10 PM)thillan Wrote: Bill Belichick went 5-11 in NE his first year as their coach.

Is Marvin Lewis a better coach than Bill?

Belichik had six new starters on offense and 4 on defense.

[thillan]

(01-13-2019, 11:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think the new coach will get a roster than won 6 games while Marvin got a roster that won only 2 and immediately lost the best player on both offense and defense.

And I don't need to make a strawman to make my point.

The points you are trying to make aren't very strong, Fred.

We get that Marvin went 8-8 the first year. There have been other coaches that have had losing records the first season, and ended up more successful.

We could all bring up the 0-7 in the playoffs argument, which is where it matters most.

And we haven't even discussed ALL of the things that could happen. We could be injury-riddled again next season, could do nothing in FA, could trade away best players to prepare for the future, etc.

[fredtoast]

All I am saying is that if coaching really makes a big difference then we should be a lot better next year instead of just one or two games.

[thillan]

(01-13-2019, 11:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Belichik had six new starters on offense and 4 on defense.

That doesn't matter though? We aren't talking about that, based on your initial post. We are talking about records in the first season only.

So, again, Bill had a losing season in his first year as New England's head coach. Is he worse than Marvin Lewis? Would NE consider him a failure?

[fredtoast]

(01-13-2019, 11:18 PM)thillan Wrote: That doesn't matter though? We aren't talking about that, based on your initial post.

Actually that is exactly what we are talking about.  You guys are saying that if we don't upgrade the talent then coaching does not make any difference.

You can't blame all our losing on Marvin and then say the next coach can't improve without more talent.

[*psychdoctor*]

(01-13-2019, 11:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: All I am saying is that if coaching really makes a big difference then we should be a lot better next year instead of just one or two games.

I am hoping they do well, I personally don't want to get my expectations too high at this point like I did at the beginning of this past season.