Was Austin the Problem with the Defense?

[SladeX]

Nice work!

[Pat5775]

Yes. He was awful. A modern day Chuck Bresnahan, but worse.

The most lazy, hands-off defense I’ve ever seen

[grampahol]

I seriously doubt that had they kept Austin things might have had a chance to gel properly, but that will remain one of the unanswered questions few will really want to revisit. It's my opinion and probably shared by many that Austin royally screwed the D up to the point of near complete implosion. Still, there will always be that part of the unknown path of what if...what if he had been given another season to fix things. Thank goodness we will never have to find out. Now we'll have to wait and see what the next DC is able to do with whoever remains in stripes.

[THE PISTONS]

(01-14-2019, 06:02 PM)grampahol Wrote: I seriously doubt that had they kept Austin things might have had a chance to gel properly, but that will remain one of the unanswered questions few will really want to revisit. It's my opinion and probably shared by many that Austin royally screwed the D up to the point of near complete implosion. Still, there will always be that part of the unknown path of what if...what if he had been given another season to fix things. Thank goodness we will never have to find out. Now we'll have to wait and see what the next DC is able to do with whoever remains in stripes.

It feels like his scheme was too complex.

[Millhouse]

He was a problem as in he just wasn't good at all, but not the only problem.

As anyone that watched this team all year, the linebackers were abysmal, and created a handicap for the line and back end.

[Socal Bengals fan]

Making Jackson play zone n off coverage 5 yards when it’s at the 2 yard line is a problem.

[BengalChris]

With Austin we played 4 playoff teams, including two high powered offenses in New Orleans and Kansas City.

Without Austin we played 2 playoff team, with San Diego being the best of the two.

We need LBers.

[*jason*]

(01-14-2019, 04:21 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: We don't need an overhaul.

Fix the LBs, stay healthy, our D is back to fearsome.

Period.

Think we could use a legit guy on the edge to replace MJ too. The linebackers being hot garbage, and MJ's lack of anything helped offenses to key in on Geno and Dunlap. I like Hubbard, and think he's gonna be a nice player, but I like him as a rotational guy at the moment. I don't think Lawson's a 3 down guy either.

[*Synric*]

Of course he was an issue he took a defense that was built to play more man coverage and played mostly zone.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(01-14-2019, 06:14 PM)jason Wrote: Think we could use a legit guy on the edge to replace MJ too. The linebackers being hot garbage, and MJ's lack of anything helped offenses to key in on Geno and Dunlap. I like Hubbard, and think he's gonna be a nice player, but I like him as a rotational guy at the moment. I don't think Lawson's a 3 down guy either.

Having MJ was like playing 10 vs 11

[McC]

(01-14-2019, 06:18 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Having MJ was like playing 10 vs 11

We gave up the edge too a helluva lot of ball carriers.

[McC]

(01-14-2019, 06:15 PM)Synric Wrote: Of course he was an issue he took a defense that was built to play more man coverage and played mostly zone.

There were two main problems with the D and he was number one. He didn't get fired for nothing. He earned it.

[XenoMorph]

(01-14-2019, 04:23 PM)Wyche Wrote: Oh, there is ZERO doubt we need help at the LB position.  Aside from that, your research reveals what I thought it would.  Teryl Austin was just not very good, and Marvin improved on his defense.

When you say that Austin played against better offenses, that it true.  However, we also must consider that Marvin was also using lesser talent due to injuries.

Marvin did a respectable job with the defense.  He messed up royally by hiring Teryl in the first place.  Also, Austin is now the Stoolers' problem, so that is good.....lol.

Right no matters the numbers we don't need a complete overhaul but we need some fresh playmakers @ LB

[corpjet]

Austin was a HUGE part of the problem as well as scheme and players.

First and foremost we need a leader on defense and some house cleaning. Def let go of Tez and possible Dre because of the 15 million he's making.

Draft the white kid out of LSU in the 1st rd, a CB in rd 2 (to replace Dre) and a OT in Rd 3 and we are a better team. Use Dres money for another LBer or another OT.

[wolfkaosaun]

Really dig the write up.

I don't think Austin was bad persay, just his defense wasn't a good fit for what the Bengals had.
He preferred zone and attempting to maximize on turnovers. The cornerbacks are MUCH better with man to man. Look at Jackson before and after Austin. His play completely changed.

The biggest issue for this team is linebackers.

Also, to note:
The Bengals had 13 turnovers under Austin in 9 games.
(10 INTs, 3 fumble recoveries)

Since then?
Bengals had 5 turnovers in 7 games.
(2 INTs, 3 fumble recoveries)

[Luvnit2]

TY for the in depth look before and after Austin was fired.

The common denominator for the future for me is our run defense needs to improve by 40 yards a game. I se 2 issues and one many will not like. Geno is a great pass rusher inside, but he is not big enough to e a great run defender. He demands double teams when rushing, but against the run most teams block him one on one.

That puts all if the pressure on the other interior DL. Billings was OK, but inconsistent and gets gassed easily so the guys they brought in late in the year to rest him actually did better as they were huge DT's (or looked that way). I thought Dunlap regressed in 2018 and hopefully he gets back to himself in 2019.

So, we need a 3 down big and physical stud alongside Geno (possible 1st round pick) or FA.

The other glaring weakness is at LB. Burfict is done. Vigil, Evans and others are good back ups. So, I think our biggest glaring weakness is at LB. I would love to see us draft White and add a player like KJ Wright who can cover and stop the run.


I don't think the defense or offense needs blown up, just need better health and a few key players on both sides of the ball upgraded or players to step up in year 3 like Ross.
Great work on the defensive stats, like I said the one glaring with both guys is our run defense is not playoff caliber.

[Whatever]

(01-14-2019, 06:59 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Really dig the write up.

I don't think Austin was bad persay, just his defense wasn't a good fit for what the Bengals had.
He preferred zone and attempting to maximize on turnovers. The cornerbacks are MUCH better with man to man. Look at Jackson before and after Austin. His play completely changed.

The biggest issue for this team is linebackers.

Also, to note:
The Bengals had 13 turnovers under Austin in 9 games.
(10 INTs, 3 fumble recoveries)

Since then?
Bengals had 5 turnovers in 7 games.
(2 INTs, 3 fumble recoveries)

Our LB's are just plain bad.  Burfict is finished.  Rey is finished.  Brown is a decent 2 down thumper, but he's a FA.  Vigil looks like a quality backup, at best.  Evans looks lost half the time.  Nickerson isn't NFL roster worthy.  Jefferson couldn't get on the field, but new coaches might be able to get something out of him.  We definitely need 2 guys that are starting caliber.

Pass rush also became an issue when Lawson went down.  He wasn't getting sacks, but he was generating pressure and forcing QB's to step up into Geno.

[*bengalfan74*]

Austin was a giant part of the problem. Having quite possibly the worst set of LBers in the history of NFL was a large part as well.

[Jojo the Circus Boy]

(01-14-2019, 06:59 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Really dig the write up.

I don't think Austin was bad persay, just his defense wasn't a good fit for what the Bengals had.
He preferred zone and attempting to maximize on turnovers. The cornerbacks are MUCH better with man to man. Look at Jackson before and after Austin. His play completely changed.

This sounds familiar. A coordinator that forced players into his SCHEME instead of planning to the strengths of his PLAYERS. I just hope our new coordinators are brought in to play to this teams strengths or at least show the ability to be flexible with their game planning. Even the local high school coach knows how to change his offense depending on if it's a once a decade QB that chucks it 40+ yards vs. most years where they have a RB at QB leading to the triple option.

[Bengal Dude]

(01-14-2019, 05:18 PM)McC Wrote: And then, when we did go for faster guys, we got little(Evans) to nothing(Jefferson) out of them.

The problem there was Marvin started going with raw quick LBs. He didn't mind them being smaller, but he wanted them to become thumping run defenders. Think of someone like Landon Johnson. 

A lot of draft analysts thought Jefferson should've returned to Texas to hone his game. I believe Vigil is probably the most polished athletic linebacker Marvin ever drafted and he's just okay.