Dwayne Haskins or Kyler Murray?

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-22-2019, 01:19 PM)Au165 Wrote: His mechanics broke down under pressure at times, which isn't uncommon. The second half of the Washington game they started to get a little pressure on him and his accuracy suffered, it wasn't the first time this year it happened. I think that is fixable, it's not a decision making problem it is mechanics and mechanics are easier to fix than bad decision making as weird as that sounds. 

That's what I was trying to say you just did a better job of saying it. I don't think his decision making was horrible, at all.

I think he suffered a good bit from being in the wrong kind of offense, in the big picture. Pressure was on him to fit into UM offense and it took some time for him to get over it.

And that little bit of uncertainty stayed through out the season. I believe in a system where he isn't trying to run the read option he'll be a pretty good one, but who knows for sure ?

[Au165]

(01-22-2019, 01:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That's what I was trying to say you just did a better job of saying it. I don't think his decision making was horrible, at all.

I think he suffered a good bit from being in the wrong kind of offense, in the big picture. Pressure was on him to fit into UM offense and it took some time for him to get over it.

And that little bit of uncertainty stayed through out the season. I believe in a system where he isn't trying to run the read option he'll be a pretty good one, but who knows for sure ?

He was never trying to run the read option at OSU. He did a little at the end of the season, but most of what looked like read option all year was him showing a keeper of a designed inside or outside zone run. The system he was in was fine it took a lot of west coast and even some air raid concepts and mashed them together. Day was the QB coach under Kelly in Philly and pulled a lot of what worked in the NFL down for Haskins creating a full field spread look that is ran in the NFL. He may need some time to adjust to dropping from under center and analyzing the field coming out of the drop, something he never did at OSU, but aside from that he can sit in shotgun and sling it right now. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-21-2019, 10:40 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Haskins is a elite prospect, much better than trubisky when .he came out and u saw what the bears gave up for him.  I see no way Williams goes over Haskins. Or boss for that matter. Clear cut qb1. Would have been qb3 last year. And. That's only due to lack of starts. Dude will be a top 5 qb in the league in short order. Amazing what Haskins was able to do being handicapped by the system.

You really think Haskins would have been QB3 in a class with Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield, and Lamar Jackson when he only played in two games?
You may see a lot of potential in Haskins, but there's no way he would have been third QB taken in that draft.

I think Rosen is underrated by a lot of people. He's a lot like Eli Manning. He's overly criticized and written off but he'd be a very consistent 4000+ yard, 25+ TD passer who could help drive a team to the Super Bowl. Rosen was about as safe of a pick as you could make, albeit not a flashy one.

I'd take Rosen over any of these QBs in this draft class, and I'd give up pick #11 for him if that's what it took to get him. His rookie year in AZ (with a bad OL) doesn't scare me, as we've seen what a new scheme and better OL can do for a projected elite QB (see Jared Goff).

[Au165]

(01-22-2019, 01:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You really think Haskins would have been QB3 in a class with Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield, and Lamar Jackson when he only played in two games?
You may see a lot of potential in Haskins, but there's no way he would have been third QB taken in that draft.

I think Rosen is underrated by a lot of people. He's a lot like Eli Manning. He's overly criticized and written off but he'd be a very consistent 4000+ yard, 25+ TD passer who could help drive a team to the Super Bowl. Rosen was about as safe of a pick as you could make, albeit not a flashy one.

I'd take Rosen over any of these QBs in this draft class, and I'd give up pick #11 for him if that's what it took to get him. His rookie year in AZ (with a bad OL) doesn't scare me, as we've seen what a new scheme and better OL can do for a projected elite QB (see Jared Goff).

I think he is saying if Dwayne Haskins this year would have been QB 3 in that class, which I'd say 3 or 4 is fair (above Jackson possibly behind others). I could make an argument for Haskins as QB2 in some ways behind only Mayfield, but that's kind of based on my own personnel feelings about Darnold coming out. I actually was a big Rosen fan last year, but after some of his decision making this year I have concerns. I think it could have been lack of talent and scheme to an extent but he threw some inexplicable balls last year. I'd have to think long and hard if I wanted to tie my franchise to him, mainly because of the personality quirks that were discussed pre draft. Add those with the decision making and I'd almost rather roll my dice on some of these other options in future drafts (Not so much this one).

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-22-2019, 01:35 PM)Au165 Wrote: He was never trying to run the read option at OSU. He did a little at the end of the season, but most of what looked like read option all year was him showing a keeper of a designed inside or outside zone run. The system he was in was fine it took a lot of west coast and even some air raid concepts and mashed them together. Day was the QB coach under Kelly in Philly and pulled a lot of what worked in the NFL down for Haskins creating a full field spread look that is ran in the NFL. He may need some time to adjust to dropping from under center and analyzing the field coming out of the drop, something he never did at OSU, but aside from that he can sit in shotgun and sling it right now. 

I beg to differ 

Go look at the very first offensive play in the Michigan game this year as but one example and tell me what that is ? 

If you want to split hairs and say that's not the "read option" so be it. But the point is pressure was on him to run/fit into the UM style of offense and that's just not his game.

[Au165]

(01-22-2019, 03:21 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I beg to differ 

Go look at the very first offensive play in the Michigan game this year as but one example and tell me what that is ? 

If you want to split hairs and say that's not the "read option" so be it. But the point is pressure was on him to run/fit into the UM style of offense and that's just not his game.

Read my next sentence after the one you highlighted. Haskins ran 79 times on the year with 38 of them coming in the last 4 games. Many of his attempts before Maryland were on broken plays not designed runs. They were not designed read options for most the year which actually limited the effectiveness of the running game at times because the backside end was crashing so hard. Haskins is a smart guy, if it was truly a read he would have read it and pulled but he really didn't all year. 

To your point, no it wasn't and it never was meant to be this year. This was Ryan Day's offense not Urban Meyers, from the lack of power running game (They ran more zone this year than any previous year) to the obvious lack of QB running. There was less screen passing than almost any year of Urban Meyers head coaching tenure as well. Heck no QB in Urban Meyer's history has ever ran a true full field spread before this year, that was something Day brought in with true NFL route combos on both the front and back side of plays. 

[Jpoore]

(01-22-2019, 01:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You really think Haskins would have been QB3 in a class with Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield, and Lamar Jackson when he only played in two games?
You may see a lot of potential in Haskins, but there's no way he would have been third QB taken in that draft.

I think Rosen is underrated by a lot of people. He's a lot like Eli Manning. He's overly criticized and written off but he'd be a very consistent 4000+ yard, 25+ TD passer who could help drive a team to the Super Bowl. Rosen was about as safe of a pick as you could make, albeit not a flashy one.

I'd take Rosen over any of these QBs in this draft class, and I'd give up pick #11 for him if that's what it took to get him. His rookie year in AZ (with a bad OL) doesn't scare me, as we've seen what a new scheme and better OL can do for a projected elite QB (see Jared Goff).

Rosen was my qb1b to Rudolph 1a. But absolutely Haskins would have been taken ahead of Rosen. This is what multiple scouts have said.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-23-2019, 02:43 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Rosen was my qb1b to Rudolph 1a. But absolutely Haskins would have been taken ahead of Rosen. This is what multiple scouts have said.

Proof?

[Big Boss]

Did I miss something? Jarrett Stidham declared for the draft?

[Jpoore]

(01-23-2019, 10:33 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Proof?

Mccshay or kiper said this. Give me some.time

 

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-19-2019, 01:12 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Well one is going #1 overall and the other is going late 2-early 3

I would be very surprised if Murray slipped past early Rd 2.  I only wish his body was a bit more Russell Wilson instead of thoroughbred.  He needs a little pudding to take the hits, but I think the success of guys like Wilson, Brees, and Mayfield will give him a shot.  

The right OC will give him bootlegs and waggles to create throwing lanes and use his mobility.  Teams will get very tired of chasing him.  I really like the kid but fear a couple cheap hits would end his season quickly. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

To answer the question.....no.

[Big Boss]

For what it's worth, we're bringing in a head coach who is a QB guy, and our new offensive coordinator is a QB guy too. And we still have Van Pelt. Three guys up top who specialize in this position.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-24-2019, 03:15 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Mccshay or kiper said this. Give me some.time

 

Hmm, I'm interested to see what you find, as if it's just McShay or Kiper saying their opinion or "sources tell me," I would take that with a grain of salt. I don't really see them as any more informative than I do Walter from Walter Football.

[Au165]

(01-24-2019, 01:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hmm, I'm interested to see what you find, as if it's just McShay or Kiper saying their opinion or "sources tell me," I would take that with a grain of salt. I don't really see them as any more informative than I do Walter from Walter Football.

Kiper declared Jimmy Clauson a franchise QB and that if he didn't pan out he'd retire lol. 

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

You know with our new coaching staff we have way too many ties with this guy...

[Au165]

(02-05-2019, 03:25 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote:

You know with our new coaching staff we have way too many ties with this guy...

He is a less good version of Dalton, but not bad enough to tank, so the whole idea of getting him seems pretty stupid. I've seen all the ideas around it but they make no sense. If he gets cut could he be the back up? Maybe. I honestly don't think they are all that concerned about QB though.

[The Real Deal]

“I think the Bengals drafting Kyler Murray would completely reboot that franchise.”

- @FieldYates pic.twitter.com/N6LGjpAntX

— Golic and Wingo (@GolicAndWingo) February 6, 2019

[McC]

(02-06-2019, 10:30 AM)The Real Deal Wrote:

“I think the Bengals drafting Kyler Murray would completely reboot that franchise.”

- @FieldYates pic.twitter.com/N6LGjpAntX

— Golic and Wingo (@GolicAndWingo) February 6, 2019

...or screw it for several years.

Are the Bengals even on his list of teams he will play for?

[Au165]

(02-06-2019, 12:46 PM)McC Wrote: ...or screw it for several years.

Are the Bengals even on his list of teams he will play for?

Don't know. Like I said I think they are pretty much in on Dalton for this year though. I think short of the Redskins rolling in and offering a 1st for him we will keep him and see what he can do with a totally new head coach.