Player Accountability w/ New Coaches

[NKURyan]

There's been so much concern around here about all of the youth on the Bengals' staff. People are worried about Taylor's lack of experience, they're worried about Callahan's lack of experience, and we're starting to see the same concern crop up on the defensive side of the ball as well as the DC candidates seem to be skewing younger. And to some extent, I get it - if someone has won the big ones and has been there before, they bring in a certain air of experience that helps to inspire others to follow them. But that said...

Let's hold the players accountable as well. They're professionals. Until the coaching staff starts building an actual resume of failure, these players should be buying in 100% to whatever these coaches are selling, age be damned. Show up, do your job ™, and give the guy a shot. And while others seem like they're trending towards holding these young coaches responsible if there's no buy-in from the players... I'm not of that mindset. If the players aren't going to buy in from the get go, that's on them as much as anybody.

Am I crazy for thinking this? Because I read some of these concerns people have about him taking charge of the locker room and I start to wonder...

[McC]

(02-07-2019, 08:00 PM)NKURyan Wrote: There's been so much concern around here about all of the youth on the Bengals' staff. People are worried about Taylor's lack of experience, they're worried about Callahan's lack of experience, and we're starting to see the same concern crop up on the defensive side of the ball as well as the DC candidates seem to be skewing younger. And to some extent, I get it - if someone has won the big ones and has been there before, they bring in a certain air of experience that helps to inspire others to follow them. But that said...

Let's hold the players accountable as well. They're professionals. Until the coaching staff starts building an actual resume of failure, these players should be buying in 100% to whatever these coaches are selling, age be damned. Show up, do your job ™, and give the guy a shot. And while others seem like they're trending towards holding these young coaches responsible if there's no buy-in from the players... I'm not of that mindset. If the players aren't going to buy in from the get go, that's on them as much as anybody.

Am I crazy for thinking this? Because I read some of these concerns people have about him taking charge of the locker room and I start to wonder...

Hold everybody accountable, from top to bottom.  It's the path to success.

[THE PISTONS]

Winning teams have accountability.

That said, we may have hired some great coaches, but with all this inexperience...the odds are also higher that some of these coaches flop and need replaced after the season. Time will tell.

[McC]

(02-08-2019, 12:00 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Winning teams have accountability.

That said, we may have hired some great coaches, but with all this inexperience...the odds are also higher that some of these coaches flop and need replaced after the season. Time will tell.

These guys seems like the new age kind of coaches who are making a pretty nice splash in the league right now.  They can out think you.  They can out scheme you.  

There are still a few of the older guys around and the new guys are giving them a run for their money.  These are the kind of coaches I believe we are getting. 

Yeah they have the older line coach but if he doesn't pan out, his assistant is up to the job, according to Zac.

Now get a DC who can make our defense a weapon again and the sky's the limit.

Sure there's always a risk.  But this risk has all the look of a calculated one.  I think it's gonna be a ride worth taking.

[HarleyDog]

I think there will be a level of accountability we haven’t seen in 16yrs. Players will not be rewarded with bad play by continuing to stay on the field. They will be benched and next man up. Then they will get a week to fix it or possibly lose the starting position.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-07-2019, 08:00 PM)NKURyan Wrote: There's been so much concern around here about all of the youth on the Bengals' staff. People are worried about Taylor's lack of experience, they're worried about Callahan's lack of experience, and we're starting to see the same concern crop up on the defensive side of the ball as well as the DC candidates seem to be skewing younger. And to some extent, I get it - if someone has won the big ones and has been there before, they bring in a certain air of experience that helps to inspire others to follow them. But that said...

Let's hold the players accountable as well. They're professionals. Until the coaching staff starts building an actual resume of failure, these players should be buying in 100% to whatever these coaches are selling, age be damned. Show up, do your job ™, and give the guy a shot. And while others seem like they're trending towards holding these young coaches responsible if there's no buy-in from the players... I'm not of that mindset. If the players aren't going to buy in from the get go, that's on them as much as anybody.

Am I crazy for thinking this? Because I read some of these concerns people have about him taking charge of the locker room and I start to wonder...

When I saw the look on player's faces as they look to the sidelines for help and Marvin just looks back with a blank stare and claps his hands and says "Let's go", I think these players will be very interested to see what the new coaches can do to help them schematically.  

[Bengalpool]

Man. I really hope we finally got the coach we deserve here... The youth movement is something that should excite everyone without even knowing if it will pan out. Why? Because its NOT THE BENGALS WE KNOW.... REGARDLESS of this working out or not, you can't say management held Taylor back. You can't say management restricted Taylor to coaches THEY seen best fit. You can't say Marvin got a clean slate when he first arrived. This isn't the same FO I'm telling you lol.

Look at the past couple of seasons. Regardless of the outcome, we made some ballsy moves. Biggest one was the deal with Buffalo in trading back and getting a starting LT and arguably the best C in the draft. The FO is trying it appears guys. I cringe when I say that because of years past, but it finally looks like Mikey is letting Katie, Troy and Duke take care of business without him. Last year was the straw that broke the camels back for Mike. He finally gave in. He realized ML was not the answer after 16 years. I'm willing to bet Katie didn't want ML another year last year. ML blew it and Mike doesn't want to deal with a new system/new HC and staff.

I expect to see things that we haven't seen before (in a long time). Accountability, being creative with players who typically ride the bench, maybe more offseason activity, less clapping, more confidence in prime time games, less conservative, new jerseys (I kid, but I hope at least next season we see them) and starting the players that deserve to start despite salary and seniority.

[grampahol]

Youth for the sake of youth is just getting rid of old guys. Time will tell, but I'm not in much of a hurry to throw the baby out with the bath water. Buying in means little if what you're selling doesn't work. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling this coach is going to have to learn some hard lessons quick and if he doesn't we may be in for some disappointment..  I like the enthusiasm and all so don't get me wrong, but like everything let me see what you can do first. He's got his chance, but big talk only goes so far. Now he has to prove it all.

[Sled21]

Taylor needs to come in day 1 and pull a Greg Kinnear and tell them no one's job is safe....

[*Nately120*]

Ehh, we will see what is accountability and what isn't. I'm no Marvin fan, but we had a tendency to complain that he didn't hold players accountable, and then we were also mad that he didn't just put Ross and Auden Tate on the field like we wanted him too.

So time will tell if we like ZT's version of accountability or not. It'll just be interesting to see what people say and think around here if a genius like ZT doesn't make the personnel decisions we know are the right ones.

[NKURyan]

(02-08-2019, 11:56 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ehh, we will see what is accountability and what isn't.  I'm no Marvin fan, but we had a tendency to complain that he didn't hold players accountable, and then we were also mad that he didn't just put Ross and Auden Tate on the field like we wanted him too.

So time will tell if we like ZT's version of accountability or not.  It'll just be interesting to see what people say and think around here if a genius like ZT doesn't make the personnel decisions we know are the right ones.

I'm not necessarily referring to him holding his players accountable, but more we as fans holding them equally accountable instead of dumping it all on the new coach just because he's young.

I'm thinking along the lines of people saying "it's the coach's fault for not getting players to buy in" vs my stance that "the players should be buying in to whatever the coach is selling regardless".

Or, to put it another way, I feel like a guy like Vontaze Burfict is just as responsible for falling in line than the coach is for *getting* him to fall in line. I don't feel like it's solely on the coach to "sell" what he wants to do - the players, as professionals, should be buying in from the beginning.

...but the storyline seems to be "can a young coaching staff get veteran players to follow". They'd better!

[fredtoast]

(02-08-2019, 09:00 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: When I saw the look on player's faces as they look to the sidelines for help and Marvin just looks back with a blank stare and claps his hands and says "Let's go", I think these players will be very interested to see what the new coaches can do to help them schematically.  

Stop acting like the players are on your side.  Some may be but some clearly supported Marvin.

And you could not tell ANYTHING by the looks on their faces during games.  You are just making that up.

[fredtoast]

(02-07-2019, 08:00 PM)NKURyan Wrote: There's been so much concern around here about all of the youth on the Bengals' staff. People are worried about Taylor's lack of experience, they're worried about Callahan's lack of experience, and we're starting to see the same concern crop up on the defensive side of the ball as well as the DC candidates seem to be skewing younger. And to some extent, I get it - if someone has won the big ones and has been there before, they bring in a certain air of experience that helps to inspire others to follow them. But that said...

Let's hold the players accountable as well. They're professionals. Until the coaching staff starts building an actual resume of failure, these players should be buying in 100% to whatever these coaches are selling, age be damned. Show up, do your job ™, and give the guy a shot. And while others seem like they're trending towards holding these young coaches responsible if there's no buy-in from the players... I'm not of that mindset. If the players aren't going to buy in from the get go, that's on them as much as anybody.

Am I crazy for thinking this? Because I read some of these concerns people have about him taking charge of the locker room and I start to wonder...

Here is how it seems to work around here.

When you want to complain about the front office then the players they have drafted or signed are the problem.

When you want to complain about the coach then all the players are great.

[NKURyan]

(02-08-2019, 01:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is how it seems to work around here.

When you want to complain about the front office then the players they have drafted or signed are the problem.

When you want to complain about the coach then all the players are great.

I think anyone who complain's about a coach that we've seen no results from is nuts, but that's not going to stop anybody from doing it.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-08-2019, 02:08 AM)McC Wrote: These guys seems like the new age kind of coaches who are making a pretty nice splash in the league right now.  They can out think you.  They can out scheme you.  

There are still a few of the older guys around and the new guys are giving them a run for their money.  These are the kind of coaches I believe we are getting. 

Yeah they have the older line coach but if he doesn't pan out, his assistant is up to the job, according to Zac.

Now get a DC who can make our defense a weapon again and the sky's the limit.

Sure there's always a risk.  But this risk has all the look of a calculated one.  I think it's gonna be a ride worth taking.

You nailed it. Innovation will be their path to success if they succeed.

They'll need to come up with a vision and a plan and then sign and draft players who fit with that. It's exciting in a lot of ways.


My concern is they're coming in and setting fire to the forest, and that needed done...but there were some things in the forest that worked ok. 

[*Nately120*]

(02-08-2019, 01:06 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I'm not necessarily referring to him holding his players accountable, but more we as fans holding them equally accountable instead of dumping it all on the new coach just because he's young.

I'm thinking along the lines of people saying "it's the coach's fault for not getting players to buy in" vs my stance that "the players should be buying in to whatever the coach is selling regardless".

Or, to put it another way, I feel like a guy like Vontaze Burfict is just as responsible for falling in line than the coach is for *getting* him to fall in line. I don't feel like it's solely on the coach to "sell" what he wants to do - the players, as professionals, should be buying in from the beginning.

...but the storyline seems to be "can a young coaching staff get veteran players to follow". They'd better!

I hear ya, I'm just thinking we are so hyped about having a new coach that IF things go sideways in year one we are going to be more likely to heap the blame on the players than him.

(02-08-2019, 01:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Stop acting like the players are on your side.  Some may be but some clearly supported Marvin.

And you could not tell ANYTHING by the looks on their faces during games.  You are just making that up.

I agree.  It's all about seeing who won or lost and then deducing what people were "feeling." 

PLAYERS DONT SHOW EMOTION
when you win - players are disciplined, regimented, icewater in their veins
when you lose - players are lazy, don't care, HC/QB has lost the team

PLAYERS DO SHOW EMOTION

when you win - players are fired up, show swagger, get in each others faces, hold each other accountable, give a damn
when you lose - HC/QB has lost the team, undisciplined, cancerous side-show, immature locker room

[THE PISTONS]

(02-08-2019, 02:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I hear ya, I'm just thinking we are so hyped about having a new coach that IF things go sideways in year one we are going to be more likely to heap the blame on the players than him.



I agree.  It's all about seeing who won or lost and then deducing what people were "feeling." 

PLAYERS DONT SHOW EMOTION
when you win - players are disciplined, regimented, icewater in their veins
when you lose - players are lazy, don't care, HC/QB has lost the team

PLAYERS DO SHOW EMOTION

when you win - players are fired up, show swagger, get in each others faces, hold each other accountable, give a damn
when you lose - HC/QB has lost the team, undisciplined, cancerous side-show, immature locker room

I think the wildcard to that is free agency. IF we sign some free agents, then expectations will be up.

You know that no matter who we draft, fans will be excited about the draft. "We traded up to the 4th pick to draft a PUNTER?!?!? This guy is going to be AWESOME!"

[*Nately120*]

(02-08-2019, 02:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think the wildcard to that is free agency. IF we sign some free agents, then expectations will be up.

You know that no matter who we draft, fans will be excited about the draft. "We traded up to the 4th pick to draft a PUNTER?!?!? This guy is going to be AWESOME!"

Oh I know.  Listen, I point out that Mavin had to go like 8 years ago, but 2018 was the year of "it's the coach's fault" and 2019 is going to be the year of "it's they players' fault" and that's just the way it is.

Let's be honest, Marvin Lewis can tell us Auden Tate isn't better than Malone and we can call him a moron, but if Taylor says the same thing we are going to nod our heads in agreement.  This is why it will be interesting to see how people around here react to ZT's decisions that we lambasted Marvin for (if that happens).

This should be interesting as hell, win or lose that's for sure.

[fredtoast]

(02-08-2019, 02:24 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I think anyone who complain's about a coach that we've seen no results from is nuts, 

I don't know about you specifically, but a lot of people saying what you are saying have had very strong opinions about draft picks before they ever played a single down.


I have not said anything critical of Taylor himself, but I am concerned about the coaches he is hiring to fill his staff.  Seems like he is looking more for "yes men" who will never question him instead of coaches who could help him see different perspectives on problems.

[NKURyan]

(02-08-2019, 02:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know about you specifically, but a lot of people saying what you are saying have had very strong opinions about draft picks before they ever played a single down.


I have not said anything critical of Taylor himself, but I am concerned about the coaches he is hiring to fill his staff.  Seems like he is looking more for "yes men" who will never question him instead of coaches who could help him see different perspectives on problems.

I mean when it comes to draft picks, I agree 100% - let's see what they can do before we start burning jerseys. The problem with being "that guy" (whether it comes to draft picks or coaching hires) is that "those guys" often tend to root for failure just so they can say "I told you so".

I think people are being a little cynical about the coaching staff hires. 99% of us have no real idea if these guys are good coaches or not... a lot of people would prefer a big name over an unknown. I felt like the drama over losing the big name Pollack was overstated - he was here a year - but people were told he was the end all be all and so now we're doomed. We want to hear a hire's name and be able to go "I know that guy", but there's a lot more to it than that.

You call them yes men, but I look at it as having a unified voice. I think there's something to be said for having one consistent message, especially in a new staff trying to establish a way of doing things. Too many contradictory voices throwing out different perspective and you end up as the Browns, firing an HC and OC on the same day.