West Coast Offense

[Shake n Blake]

(02-12-2019, 10:22 AM)Wyche Wrote: Both Zac and Brian hinted at WCO philosophies in their pressers.  Hobs wrote about it on the mothership.  This is why I think Zac is confident with the players he has on offense.  Because Jay drafted Dalton to run the WCO, and Green and Bernard have also played in it.  I think the offense will actually have a much better year than folks anticipate.

Good point. We should pick be able to hit the ground running this year. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-12-2019, 12:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Good point. We should pick be able to hit the ground running this year. 

I think so.  Boyd should have some familiarity with it, Green and Gio for sure do, and so does Eifert if they elect to keep him.  We all know Dalton is known to pick up things quickly and is a hard worker with film.  Mixon seems to pick up things rather quickly, and open to coaching, as evidenced by his turnaround toward the end of the '17 season, and on into '18.  Remember him having a meeting with his oline about what they wanted from him?  Ross is the wild card.....I have no idea there.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-12-2019, 01:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: I think so.  Boyd should have some familiarity with it, Green and Gio for sure do, and so does Eifert if they elect to keep him.  We all know Dalton is known to pick up things quickly and is a hard worker with film.  Mixon seems to pick up things rather quickly, and open to coaching, as evidenced by his turnaround toward the end of the '17 season, and on into '18.  Remember him having a meeting with his oline about what they wanted from him?  Ross is the wild card.....I have no idea there.

That will be one of the most interesting story lines of the year. We'll figure out quickly whether or not Marv was holding him back.

[*psychdoctor*]

From what I observed from the Rams is they pounded the rock hard, then would go with RPO or quick strikes deep. It was a blend of WCO and conventional.

Also, McVay would have two plays called before the 15 second play clock so that the defense could not change alignments. It worked on most everyone except the genius coach in the SB.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-12-2019, 08:24 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: From what I observed from the Rams is they pounded the rock hard, then would go with RPO or quick strikes deep.  It was a blend of WCO and conventional.  

Also, McVay would have two plays called before the 15 second play clock so that the defense could not change alignments.  It worked on most everyone except the genius coach in the SB.

During the playoffs, I was listening to a couple of the talking heads break down some of the Rams offense.  What they were illustrating is how well the Rams were able to get targets at three different levels of the defense, on the same side of the field, usually set up by play-action, after establishing the run.

Personally, I think that Andy would thrive in that setting.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-12-2019, 08:24 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: From what I observed from the Rams is they pounded the rock hard, then would go with RPO or quick strikes deep.  It was a blend of WCO and conventional.  

Also, McVay would have two plays called before the 15 second play clock so that the defense could not change alignments.  It worked on most everyone except the genius coach in the SB.

Yup.

About that 15 seconds......

(02-12-2019, 08:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: During the playoffs, I was listening to a couple of the talking heads break down some of the Rams offense.  What they were illustrating is how well the Rams were able to get targets at three different levels of the defense, on the same side of the field, usually set up by play-action, after establishing the run.

Personally, I think that Andy would thrive in that setting.  

I think he will too, and from what I've gathered, the 15 second delay was to aid Goff in pre snap reads.  Something he's not very good at right now, apparently.  That won't be the case here.  We may actually speed up the offense here, because that is one of the strengths of our veteran QB.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-12-2019, 08:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: During the playoffs, I was listening to a couple of the talking heads break down some of the Rams offense.  What they were illustrating is how well the Rams were able to get targets at three different levels of the defense, on the same side of the field, usually set up by play-action, after establishing the run.

Personally, I think that Andy would thrive in that setting.  

Of course, they have a Top 5 offensive line too.

Ironically, a few years ago their offensive line was pretty below average.

[Au165]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/13/zac-taylor-calls-rams-offense-the-starting-point-for-bengals-playbook/

The Rams offense will be our starting point according to the interview with PFT. It's a zone blocking scheme up front with a one cut theme which should work well for Mixon. Their play action all comes off the same tow or three running concepts. They don't run "RPO" so not sure where that came from above, but they do rely on everything looking the same. They have some "Sell it" run actions that may look like an RPO but they are actually passing plays 100%. They love mesh concepts to create natural picks and when Kupp was around atleast they liked to used the slot WR out of tight formations to split the seam.

It's a very efficient offense, but got exposed later in the year because they were so play action dependent. I think the biggest difference will be we will be able to move the ball without needing play action to suck the LB's down. Dalton is capable of dropping back and distributing the ball which should make a similar offense more effective...assuming the blocking holds up.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-13-2019, 10:43 AM)Au165 Wrote: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/13/zac-taylor-calls-rams-offense-the-starting-point-for-bengals-playbook/

The Rams offense will be our starting point according to the interview with PFT. It's a zone blocking scheme up front with a one cut theme which should work well for Mixon. Their play action all comes off the same tow or three running concepts. They don't run "RPO" so not sure where that came from above, but they do rely on everything looking the same. They have some "Sell it" run actions that may look like an RPO but they are actually passing plays 100%. They love mesh concepts to create natural picks and when Kupp was around atleast they liked to used the slot WR out of tight formations to split the seam.

It's a very efficient offense, but got exposed later in the year because they were so play action dependent. I think the biggest difference will be we will be able to move the ball without needing play action to suck the LB's down. Dalton is capable of dropping back and distributing the ball which should make a similar offense more effective...assuming the blocking holds up.

That's going to be the key to early success for Zac, IMO.  I think our skill players will do very well in this scheme, provided that blocking is sufficient.

[Au165]

(02-13-2019, 11:31 AM)Wyche Wrote: That's going to be the key to early success for Zac, IMO.  I think our skill players will do very well in this scheme, provided that blocking is sufficient.

I'm curious what this line looks like running a zone blocking scheme. Maybe that's why Pollock decided to leave, that's not really his thing.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-13-2019, 11:39 AM)Au165 Wrote: I'm curious what this line looks like running a zone blocking scheme. Maybe that's why Pollock decided to leave, that's not really his thing.

Good point. He coaches maulers.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-13-2019, 11:39 AM)Au165 Wrote: I'm curious what this line looks like running a zone blocking scheme. Maybe that's why Pollock decided to leave, that's not really his thing.

(02-13-2019, 12:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Good point. He coaches maulers.

Right on.....you may very well be right Au.  I'm already chomping at the bit to see how things are going to look.....good or bad.

[*Synric*]

(02-13-2019, 10:43 AM)Au165 Wrote: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/13/zac-taylor-calls-rams-offense-the-starting-point-for-bengals-playbook/

The Rams offense will be our starting point according to the interview with PFT. It's a zone blocking scheme up front with a one cut theme which should work well for Mixon. Their play action all comes off the same tow or three running concepts. They don't run "RPO" so not sure where that came from above, but they do rely on everything looking the same. They have some "Sell it" run actions that may look like an RPO but they are actually passing plays 100%. They love mesh concepts to create natural picks and when Kupp was around atleast they liked to used the slot WR out of tight formations to split the seam.

It's a very efficient offense, but got exposed later in the year because they were so play action dependent. I think the biggest difference will be we will be able to move the ball without needing play action to suck the LB's down. Dalton is capable of dropping back and distributing the ball which should make a similar offense more effective...assuming the blocking holds up.

The actual interview was bad. Florio spent his time taking ranting shots at the Bengals organization and Andy Dalton in the form of questions. You can hear Zac Taylor's irritated laughter in the background I doubt he ever does another PFT interview.

Before the interview with Taylor, Florio went on a 5 minute rant about how college players need to refuse taking part in the senior bowl combine and pro days.

[fredtoast]

(02-13-2019, 11:39 AM)Au165 Wrote: I'm curious what this line looks like running a zone blocking scheme. Maybe that's why Pollock decided to leave, that's not really his thing.

(02-13-2019, 12:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Good point. He coaches maulers.

(02-13-2019, 01:08 PM)Wyche Wrote: Right on.....you may very well be right Au.  I'm already chomping at the bit to see how things are going to look.....good or bad.

Uh no.  Pollack was much more of a zone blocking OL coach than Alexander.  That is what he was known for in Dallas.  he learned it from Bill Callahan.

[Au165]

(02-13-2019, 03:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Uh no.  Pollack was much more of a zone blocking OL coach than Alexander.  That is what he was known for in Dallas.  he learned it from Bill Callahan.

You are correct, I for some reason was thinking Dallas was running a power scheme while he was there but that predated Pollocks and Callahans arrival in Dallas. I forgot about the Callahan connection to Pollock, which makes you really wonder why he chose to leave.

[Joelist]

It's interesting when you look at how the Pats grounded the Rams offense. It was a combination of changing how their DL attacked to counter the Rams proclivity for stretch plays, having the defense change its set after the 15 second mark so Goff had to read it on his own and everyone was under strict orders not to read and react in which took the playaction out.

The Rams needed to counter themselves by going spread offense four wide or alternately full power run.

[Au165]

(02-13-2019, 04:03 PM)Joelist Wrote: It's interesting when you look at how the Pats grounded the Rams offense. It was a combination of changing how their DL attacked to counter the Rams proclivity for stretch plays, having the defense change its set after the 15 second mark so Goff had to read it on his own and everyone was under strict orders not to read and react in which took the playaction out.

The Rams needed to counter themselves by going spread offense four wide or alternately full power run.

Yea, Goff got exposed more than anything in my mind. Taking away the outside zone running game had a lot to do with as well. They did a great job hiding the Goff issue all year by having McVay talk him through things at the line, but the Patriots weren't the first ones to kind of key in on that. Going in to next year, if you can't train him to read then you go Chip Kelly style tempo to get to the line and snap before 15 seconds left on the play clock.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-13-2019, 03:19 PM)Au165 Wrote: You are correct, I for some reason was thinking Dallas was running a power scheme while he was there but that predated Pollocks and Callahans arrival in Dallas. I forgot about the Callahan connection to Pollock, which makes you really wonder why he chose to leave.

Interesting, I didn't know much about the scheme in Dallas, just the performance.  Having said that, didn't we move away from Alexander's zone scheme to more of a power scheme toward the end of '17 and on into '18?

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2019, 08:32 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We probably need more quality WR's and TE's to run this offense. And 2 new offensive lineman.

Other than that...we're ready to go!

How many more weapons does a team need?
AJ Green
Tyler Boyd
Joe Mixon
Giovani Bernard
John Ross

Most successful teams have three main weapons. For the Bengals, they have Green, Boyd, and Mixon.
I don't think any team has (or needs) 5+ legit weapons.

[Interceptor]

We could have had all this back in 1975 if Paul kept Bill Walsh.