Latest Bengals Mail (Coley Harvey)

[*bfine32*]

(05-25-2015, 10:45 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agreed, Dalton stinks the place up again and it most likely will be Sayonara to Andy. And it baffles me how - at that point anyone would think he's irreplaceable ?

Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Here's to hoping he comes out and tears it up.

But if he does, Nuttin' wrong with looking. 12 gauge.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-25-2015, 11:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Here's to hoping he comes out and tears it up.

But  if he does, Nuttin' wrong with looking. 12 gauge.

Oh I'm holding out a sliver of hope that somehow, someway, both Andy and Marvin can "get it together" this season. But I'm just very doubtful.

[DaltontoKroftSBchamps]

(05-25-2015, 07:05 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Please refresh me on the NFL winning tradition of McCarron because somewhere along the line I missed it. Dalton was a proven winner in college as well as Pryor was. McElroy was a proven winner in college was he not?

I don't understand taking someone's record in college surrounded by All-Americans at every position and translating that to NFL success. McCarron hasn't thrown a NFL pass, he hasn't even thrown a pass in practice.

[Toy Cannon]

Can't wait to see what McCarron can do. I haven't been this excited about a quarterback prospect since Dave Ragone was a Bengal.

[Toy Cannon]

I'm not expecting Alford to make the team. He's Tate without the size. Both have excellent straight line speed but no wiggle. Neither has the quick change of direction that would make them an elusive return man. So I think they will prefer Tate's size.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-25-2015, 11:22 PM)DaltontoKroftSBchamps Wrote: I don't understand taking someone's record in college surrounded by All-Americans at every position and translating that to NFL success.  McCarron hasn't thrown a NFL pass, he hasn't even thrown a pass in practice.

LOL Talk about embellishing, there was only 4 All Americans in his Sr year. 2 on Defense, 2 on offense. I don't see how that qualifies as "surrounded" by AA's. (at leas that's all I could find without spending a ton of time on it)

There was a source or two that had McCarron ranked as high as a 1st rounder, and many gave him a second day grade (2nd or 3rd round grade) but due to his shoulder injury he fell all the way to the 5th. Not only that, but the SEC is about as close as you can get to playing in the NFL without actually doing it, so with his success it's easy to see how it should translate. Just look at how many other SEC QB's are taken high and or drafted that come from the SEC.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(05-25-2015, 08:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why do folks make things up? McCarron had great numbers as a passer. He set a school record by throwing 30 TDs his Junior year (before anybody says look at Andy's TDs; McCarron also only threw 3 INTs that year). I'm not the one that stated he is 1 of 7 college QBs to win back to back Championships; college history is. Bama didn't go for a 3-peat most likely because of their QB play. It is not too far fetched to say McCarron won the second BCS game. He threw for 264 yards, 4 TDs, and 0 INTs. When Andy does that in a playoff game, get back with me.

It's not making it up. He rarely had to "make throws"
His throws were canned easy throws. It involved a ton of easy completions and beating people up with his running game.

As for the NC game in 13, they ran 45 times. Eddie Lacy had 145 on the ground and Yeldon had 101. All the passing TDs were was play selection. If you watched that game, the run game and the run defense was why they won. They brutalized ND up front on both sides.

Why is winning so much more important in evaluating McCarron? Why aren't people focusing on the actual QB things? Reading defenses, footwork, arm strength, pocket presence, touch/placement....

[*bfine32*]

(05-26-2015, 01:27 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: It's not making it up. He rarely had to "make throws"
His throws were canned easy throws. It involved a ton of easy completions and beating people up with his running game.

As for the NC game in 13, they ran 45 times. Eddie Lacy had 145 on the ground and Yeldon had 101. All the passing TDs were was play selection. If you watched that game, the run game and the run defense was why they won. They brutalized ND up front on both sides.

Why is winning so much more important in evaluating McCarron? Why aren't people focusing on the actual QB things? Reading defenses, footwork, arm strength, pocket presence, touch/placement....

This is just silly. AJ’s last 2 years at Bama he threw for 5,996 yards, 58 TDs, and 10 INTs while completing over 67% of his passes.

I’ve seen some folks on here try to compare him to McElroy because they went to the same school. In McElroy’s last 2 years at Bama he threw for over 500 fewer yards, 21 fewer TDs, and 1 fewer INT while completing around 65% of his passes. (Keep in mind McElroy had Julio Jones)

Hell compare his final 2 years to our own Andy Dalton. Andy threw for over 300 fewer yards, 8 fewer TDs, and 4 more INTs while completing around 63% of his passes.

Come up with something else besides all AJ did in college was hand the ball off and throw bad passes.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(05-26-2015, 01:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is just silly. AJ’s last 2 years at Bama he threw for 5,996 yards, 58 TDs, and 10 INTs while completing over 67% of his passes.

I’ve seen some folks on here try to compare him to McElroy because they went to the same school. In McElroy’s last 2 years at Bama he threw for over 500 fewer yards, 21 fewer TDs, and 1 fewer INT while completing around 65% of his passes. (Keep in mind McElroy had Julio Jones)

Hell compare his final 2 years to our own Andy Dalton. Andy threw for over 300 fewer yards, 8 fewer TDs, and 4 more INTs while completing around 63% of his passes.

Come up with something else besides all AJ did in college was hand the ball off and throw bad passes.

What's silly is you still won't talk about the skillsets and keep going to stats and winning. Stats are absolutely meaningless, unless you think we should go sign Colt Brennan?

Okay fine.
He's skiddish in the pocket.
He sails his deep throws.
He doesn't have velocity on throws to the outside.
He's never had to be "the guy"
He's very limited as an athlete, won't offer you much outside the pocket.

The only area he's better than Dalton, is that he has better placement on short slants and drags.

[Benton]

Dalton, McCarron, whoever. It doesn't matter if we're going to throw 35-50 times a game with a young QB and keep trying to get a lead passing to coast along with running.

[Vas Deferens]

(05-26-2015, 02:02 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He's skiddish in the pocket.
He sails his deep throws.
He doesn't have velocity on throws to the outside.
He's never had to be "the guy"
He's very limited as an athlete, won't offer you much outside the pocket.

sounds like another QB im all too familiar with

[*bfine32*]

(05-26-2015, 02:02 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: What's silly is you still won't talk about the skillsets and keep going to stats and winning. Stats are absolutely meaningless, unless you think we should go sign Colt Brennan?

Okay fine.
He's skiddish in the pocket.
He sails his deep throws.
He doesn't have velocity on throws to the outside.
He's never had to be "the guy"
He's very limited as an athlete, won't offer you much outside the pocket.

The only area he's better than Dalton, is that he has better placement on short slants and drags.

If Colt did what AJ did in the SEC I'd say let's take a look.

Bottomline is you don't throw for 58 TDs and 10 INTs in the SEC by just handing the ball off.

As to your "scouting report": folks have google; they can watch film or read other reports (Hell, some of them even say some good things about him).

It's OK to like Andy; however, you don't have to falsely trash AJ to do it.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(05-26-2015, 04:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If Colt did what AJ did in the SEC I'd say let's take a look.

Bottomline is you don't throw for 58 TDs and 10 INTs in the SEC by just handing the ball off.

As to your "scouting report": folks have google; they can watch film or read other reports (Hell, some of them even say some good things about him).

It's OK to like Andy; however, you don't have to falsely trash AJ to do it.

This is ridiculous. I'm done because you don't want to discuss actual things relating to good QB play.
Just keep banging your head against the wall screaming "WINS! STATS! SEC!"

Sure he does do some good things...but nothing better than our current QB does.
It isn't about liking Andy, it's about liking a QB who has more than SEC WINZZZ as his signature stats.

[fredtoast]

(05-26-2015, 04:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's OK to like Andy; however, you don't have to falsely trash AJ to do it.

McCarron was not just a 5th round pick because of his bad shoulder. He was a 5th round pick because of his skill set. He might have been a 3rd round pick if healthy, but he still was not ranked as high as Dalton.

McCarron was MUCH better than McElroy, and put up some great stats at Bama. But he was never considered a highly rated NFL prospect.

[*Go Cards*]

(05-25-2015, 05:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If he has another year as a 25th ranked QB in the NFL he better  be looking over his back for anyone that can throw a pass, to include a proven winner such as McCarron.

This is correct imo and his contract would allow the move to be more friendly after this season.

Believe this to be a pivotal year for Andy's career as a Bengals player.

Think he will have a good year though.

[*bfine32*]

(05-26-2015, 06:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: McCarron was not just a 5th round pick because of his bad shoulder.  He was a 5th round pick because of his skill set.  He might have been a 3rd round pick if healthy, but he still was not ranked as high as Dalton.

McCarron was MUCH better than McElroy, and put up some great stats at Bama.  But he was never considered a highly rated NFL prospect.

Where have I disputed this? Although, I might be able to find some sites that had a 1-2 RD grade on AJ before he took a nose-dive. Seems I remember not only his arm, but there was a question of his devotion to the game that caused him to slip.

[*bfine32*]

(05-26-2015, 04:40 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: This is ridiculous. I'm done because you don't want to discuss actual things relating to good QB play.
Just keep banging your head against the wall screaming "WINS! STATS! SEC!"

Sure he does do some good things...but nothing better than our current QB does.
It isn't about liking Andy, it's about liking a QB who has more than SEC WINZZZ as his signature stats.

Did you really just type: Wins, Stats, and SEC in all caps, put an exclamation mark after each, and then suggest those are not good things to point to?

We have no idea what he does better than our QB; however, I will say this: If he were the QB in the tunnel before our last playoff game, I'd go out on a limb and say his final words to the team before taking the field would not be "Let's go have fun".

He seems like much more of an asshole and I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

[Lqhybrid25]

I don't see any UDFA besides Orbaski possibly making the 53 man roster this season.

[Paul from Dayton]

Whit is way more deserving of the extension than Peko was. Peko has never been a probowl level DT. Whit has been one of the best LT's in the game and can move to LG and do the same. I really hope they don't burn that bridge.

DiManche has been here for a couple years without doing much besides ST's. I think Flowers may be more versatile.

Please no more Tate...

[RoyleRedlegs]

(05-26-2015, 07:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Did you really just type: Wins, Stats, and SEC in all caps, put an exclamation mark after each, and then suggest those are not good things to point to?

We have no idea what he does better than our QB; however, I will say this: If he were the QB in the tunnel before our last playoff game, I'd go out on a limb and say his final words to the team before taking the field would not be "Let's go have fun".

He seems like much more of an asshole and I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

When that is literally the only argument you have made in his favor, yes, yes it is a bad thing.
Tebow had good stats and wins the Ess Eeee Ceee.
So did Manziel.

It's more about the skill set.
But you don't want to talk about that do you?