Murray update

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2019, 11:57 PM)Jpoore Wrote: He won't go rd1. Period.  And if we drafted him rd1 it would be worse that the ogbuehi disaster.

What makes you think Dwayne Haskins is a great prospect but Murray "won't go round 1, period"?
Is it just the height/size?

Both only started one year.
Haskins - 70% completion, 4939 yards, 54 total TDs, 8 INTs
Murray - 69% completion, 5362 yards, 54 total TDs, 7 INTs

[McC]

(02-12-2019, 12:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What makes you think Dwayne Haskins is a great prospect but Murray "won't go round 1, period"?
Is it just the height/size?

Both only started one year.
Haskins - 70% completion, 4939 yards, 54 total TDs, 8 INTs
Murray - 69% completion, 5362 yards, 54 total TDs, 7 INTs

5300 yards in a college season?  Damn.

[Au165]

(02-12-2019, 12:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What makes you think Dwayne Haskins is a great prospect but Murray "won't go round 1, period"?
Is it just the height/size?

Both only started one year.
Haskins - 70% completion, 4939 yards, 54 total TDs, 8 INTs
Murray - 69% completion, 5362 yards, 54 total TDs, 7 INTs

To be fair you are combining total yards, but we are drafting QB's here so passing comparison is a little better comparison. Murray at his size won't be running nearly as much in the NFL. Passing wise Haskins is the better passer, but it's not night and day like Jpoore pretends. Murray will be a 1st round pick as much as he wants to stomp his feet about it. I have heard it for months from people I know who are tied into NFL circles and nothing is changing that.

Heck from what I am told the Murray #1 overall to Arizona has serious legs. It all comes down to what they could get back for Josh Rosen. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Kid has some great tape out there, no doubt.  The only concern is that the only QB comparable to his size is Doug Flutie.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-12-2019, 01:01 PM)Au165 Wrote: To be fair you are combining total yards, but we are drafting QB's here so passing comparison is a little better comparison. Murray at his size won't be running nearly as much in the NFL. Passing wise Haskins is the better passer, but it's not night and day like Jpoore pretends. Murray will be a 1st round pick as much as he wants to stomp his feet about it. I have heard it for months from people I know who are tied into NFL circles and nothing is changing that.

Heck from what I am told the Murray #1 overall to Arizona has serious legs. It all comes down to what they could get back for Josh Rosen. 

Correct, I am comparing total yards, but Murray still had 4361 passing yards. It's not like he was 50-50 on passing vs rushing.

[Au165]

(02-12-2019, 02:41 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Correct, I am comparing total yards, but Murray still had 4361 passing yards. It's not like he was 50-50 on passing vs rushing.

Oh ? he was a very solid passer, probably doesn’t get enough credit for it. I was just pointing out I think his running ability will be limited to busted plays in the NFL because of concerns of wear and tear.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-12-2019, 02:51 PM)Au165 Wrote: Oh ? he was a very solid passer, probably doesn’t get enough credit for it. I was just pointing out I think his running ability will be limited to busted plays in the NFL because of concerns of wear and tear.

True, but a team taking him will (or should) know that he can't fit in a traditional offense and will have to scheme him to scramble some and also create some passing lanes. He's not going to fit most teams, but a team that can properly build an offense around him could be very successful.

[Au165]

(02-12-2019, 03:09 PM)ochocincos Wrote: True, but a team taking him will (or should) know that he can't fit in a traditional offense and will have to scheme him to scramble some and also create some passing lanes. He's not going to fit most teams, but a team that can properly build an offense around him could be very successful.

You can create lanes in the pocket, it's what Brees does really well with slide steps. Now they also move Brees but it doesn't have to be true scrambling but rather sliding the pocket for launch point changes. I think Murray is more Russel Wilson than people like to say, his best ability is his ability in the pocket to move and avoid pressure while keeping his eyes down field. The eyes down field part is key he scrambles to throw not to run which is how you win in this league.

[BengalHawk62]

(02-12-2019, 03:21 PM)Au165 Wrote: You can create lanes in the pocket, it's what Brees does really well with slide steps. Now they also move Brees but it doesn't have to be true scrambling but rather sliding the pocket for launch point changes. I think Murray is more Russel Wilson than people like to say, his best ability is his ability in the pocket to move and avoid pressure while keeping his eyes down field. The eyes down field part is key he scrambles to throw not to run which is how you win in this league.

I agree. I too, think his best NFL comparison is Russell Wilson.  his ability to extend plays and keep his eyes down field are what is going to make or break him.  If these new coaches like him, I'm am not against taking him at 11. 

[BengalChris]

Let someone else play the 5'9" QB.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-12-2019, 04:05 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Let someone else play the 5'9" QB.

I would be surprised if the combine rolls around and he's more than 5'7 3/4ths.

While the height is worrisome, the weight is more worrisome for me. He's listed at 195lbs, and his eyeballs will be floating at the combine in order to make him pass 200lbs. That means that when he is mid-season, his weight will dip even more though. I just don't see how 195 survives at QB, let alone as a running QB. That is 10lbs lighter than Wilson came in at, and he has since put on another 10lbs on top of that.

I'm not sure where a 5'8 QB puts on 20+ more pounds without it really slowing him down.


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All that aside, this feels almost obligatory to include in the thread about a short guy.

[seahawkscheat]

I don't think he would do good in cold weather climates but I can see him being successful in Tampa Bay Miami Las Vegas Jacksonville San Diego Arizona. Better beef up the o line though. That Dan Patrick interview with him definitely didn't do him any justice.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-12-2019, 10:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I would be surprised if the combine rolls around and he's more than 5'7 3/4ths.

While the height is worrisome, the weight is more worrisome for me. He's listed at 195lbs, and his eyeballs will be floating at the combine in order to make him pass 200lbs. That means that when he is mid-season, his weight will dip even more though. I just don't see how 195 survives at QB, let alone as a running QB. That is 10lbs lighter than Wilson came in at, and he has since put on another 10lbs on top of that.

I'm not sure where a 5'8 QB puts on 20+ more pounds without it really slowing him down.


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All that aside, this feels almost obligatory to include in the thread about a short guy.

Yep,

I have two major worries with Murray ! Like you say, size. Can a guy who might not even break 5' 9" really become an NFL pocket passer ? If he tries to run at 195 lbs they will break him !

The big 12 is far and away the worst defense in college ball he's faced very little NFL level defensive players.

I'd say he'll go in the first round but to me it's a pretty big roll of the dice.

[*bfine32*]

Murray will be just as tall compared to his opponents in the NFL as he is in college.

[Au165]

(02-12-2019, 11:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Murray will be just as tall compared to his opponents in the NFL as he is in college.

This is what is always funny his line at OU was full of future NFL linemen averaging 6’4. He played against a lot of future NFL linemen including an Alabama front who has multiple NFL linemen on it. Yet somehow he was able to throw balls without them all being batted at the line.

The height thing to me is a relic like “you can’t run read option in the NFL” or “the spread will never work”. He’s a QB not a running back he will be protected in the pocket like every other QB so the amount of hits he takes won’t be that much. He is like Wilson in his ability to avoid hits and run and get out of bounds when needed.

[Big Boss]

Not that it's worth much, but Paul Dehner Jr. was on Mo Egger's show yesterday and he doesn't think Murray would schematically fit the type of offense Zac Taylor is looking to create.

[Au165]

(02-13-2019, 08:41 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Not that it's worth much, but Paul Dehner Jr. was on Mo Egger's show yesterday and he doesn't think Murray would schematically fit the type of offense Zac Taylor is looking to create.

I'd be curious why he would think that. That normally comes with guys who have physical limitations (Arm strength, accuracy, etc) neither of those are really an issue for Murray.

[Au165]

Fun fact I heard about Murray, he had less batted balls this year then projected fellow first round picks Locke and Jones.

[Big Boss]

Will be very curious if the Bengals bring him in for a workout.

[Au165]

(02-13-2019, 10:29 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Will be very curious if the Bengals bring him in for a workout.

We did work on QB's last year, we were reportedly the team that put Lamar Jackson on the whiteboard and he was atrocious.