3-4 Back On The Table

[HarleyDog]

(02-13-2019, 08:38 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: ...We don't have the linemen or linebackers to run a 3-4. I'm talking player personnel, not coaches.

Fair enough. I think much of this could be addressed with FA and the draft. I have no problem throwing fresh kids into a new system and taking our licks for a year. Worked for the Cowboys when Jimmy Johnson was named HC and they became a dynasty. I know I'm referring to a whole team vs. a D. But still, the idea is the same. But I agree. Currently, on paper, we couldn't.

[McC]

(02-13-2019, 08:54 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Fair enough. I think much of this could be addressed with FA and the draft. I have no problem throwing fresh kids into a new system and taking our licks for a year. Worked for the Cowboys when Jimmy Johnson was named HC and they became a dynasty. I know I'm referring to a whole team vs. a D. But still, the idea is the same. But I agree. Currently, on paper, we couldn't.

Is it just me or does it seem like 4-3 coordinators are going the way of the dodo bird?

[*bfine32*]

(02-13-2019, 08:38 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: ...We don't have the linemen or linebackers to run a 3-4. I'm talking player personnel, not coaches.

You're just guessing on this one:

Quite a few OLBs in a 3-4 are pretty much the same size as Carlos

Hubbard is designed to plat OLB in a 3-4

Burfict's skills could easily translate to an ILB in a 3-4

Throw C-Law into the mix and if Jackson could play inside; then a team weakness has become a strength.

I could easily see a front 3 of Atkins, Billings, and Washington doing well as a front 3.  At 325 and the strongest man on the planet Billings could easily play NT in a 3-4

[SunsetBengal]

(02-13-2019, 08:38 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: ...We don't have the linemen or linebackers to run a 3-4. I'm talking player personnel, not coaches.

Actually, we're not as far away, as one might think.  Both Hubbard and Lawson would make pretty good OLBs in a 3-4, with the way Willis is packing on the mass, he'd be perfect for DE in a 3-4.  If they bring in a guy like Grantham, who runs a single gap 3-4, it's very much like a 4-3, but just allows for one extra athletic, faster body on the field, or at least to be used in a different capacity.

[Older Than You Too]

(02-13-2019, 10:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You're just guessing on this one:

Quite a few OLBs in a 3-4 are pretty much the same size as Carlos

Hubbard is designed to plat OLB in a 3-4

Burfict's skills could easily translate to an ILB in a 3-4

Throw C-Law into the mix and if Jackson could play inside; then a team weakness has become a strength.

I could easily see a front 3 of Atkins, Billings, and Washington doing well as a front 3.  At 325 and the strongest man on the planet Billings could easily play NT in a 3-4

No, I'm stating the obvious. You're the one "guessing" we can just switch everyone's position and magically run a 3-4 as if this were Madden.

[Socal Bengals fan]

No. We need two years to put the pieces together

[*bfine32*]

(02-13-2019, 11:36 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: No, I'm stating the obvious. You're the one "guessing" we can just switch everyone's position and magically run a 3-4 as if this were Madden.

You're stating your opinion, not the obvious. The Chargers changed from a 3-4 to a 4-3 2 years ago. They went from 16th to 15th in total D. This year they were up to 9th. A few years back the Broncos had the number 1 D in the NFL when they switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and none of this was magically done in Madden. . I could find other examples if I must. We are not switching "everyone's position". Just tweaking where they line up pre-snap. The whole "we have the wrong personnel" is silly. 

[Older Than You Too]

(02-14-2019, 12:27 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You're stating your opinion, not the obvious. The Chargers changed from a 3-4 to a 4-3 2 years ago. They went from 16th to 15th in total D. This year they were up to 9th. A few years back the Broncos had the number 1 D in the NFL when they switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and none of this was magically done in Madden. . I could find other examples if I must. We are not switching "everyone's position". Just tweaking where they line up pre-snap. The whole "we have the wrong personnel" is silly. 

Nope, I'm stating the obvious. The fact we've never drafted players to fit a 3-4 D is obvious, the fact our biggest weakness on the D is our LBers is obvious. 

Meanwhile you think this is Madden and guess we can just change people around and succeed.

So yeah, you did a whole lot of guessing while I just stated the obvious.

[*bfine32*]

(02-14-2019, 12:34 AM)Older Than You Too Wrote: Nope, I'm stating the obvious. The fact we've never drafted players to fit a 3-4 D is obvious, the fact our biggest weakness on the D is our LBers is obvious. 

Meanwhile you think this is Madden and guess we can just change people around and succeed.

So yeah, you did a whole lot of guessing while I just stated the obvious.

Of course in the middle of all that "guessing and Madden playing" I provided real life examples of where it has worked just fine.

KC is changing their base this year. You think they care about changing the base of the 31st ranked D because they don't have the personnel or is there someone on the KC message board stating the obvious? 

[*Synric*]

(02-14-2019, 12:34 AM)Older Than You Too Wrote: Nope, I'm stating the obvious. The fact we've never drafted players to fit a 3-4 D is obvious, the fact our biggest weakness on the D is our LBers is obvious. 

Meanwhile you think this is Madden and guess we can just change people around and succeed.

So yeah, you did a whole lot of guessing while I just stated the obvious.

A 2 gap 34 like the Steelers run no the Bengals dont have the guys to run that...

But a single gap 34 like Wade Phillips and Todd Grantham run wouldn't be alot different than the 43/34 hybrid they ran under Marvin and PG.

[Older Than You Too]

(02-14-2019, 12:48 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course in the middle of all that "guessing and Madden playing" I provided real life examples of where it has worked just fine.

KC is changing their base this year. You think they care about changing the base of the 31st ranked D because they don't have the personnel or is there someone on the KC message board stating the obvious? 

You provided a lot of guessing. Then gave examples of teams that are not the Bengals, and thus do not have the Bengals Defensive personnel.

[*bfine32*]

(02-14-2019, 12:52 AM)Older Than You Too Wrote: You provided a lot of guessing. Then gave examples of teams that are not the Bengals, and thus do not have the Bengals Defensive personnel.

Okey Doke

[Gamma Ray Tan]

Crash and Burn on another DC....... Hmmmmm, this is getting a little worrisome. And for the guy they do eventually get, CONGRATULATIONS! You are our 8th option!..... not looking good.

[Au165]

(02-14-2019, 09:16 AM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Crash and Burn on another DC....... Hmmmmm, this is getting a little worrisome. And for the guy they do eventually get, CONGRATULATIONS! You are our 8th option!..... not looking good.

My guess is the guy they do get ends up being a one year stop gap. 

[Cartman]

(02-13-2019, 11:36 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: No, I'm stating the obvious. You're the one "guessing" we can just switch everyone's position and magically run a 3-4 as if this were Madden.

You're forming an opinion derived from the obvious, just like everyone else does here.

Until it is tested and proven that our linebackers cannot play in a 3-4, as Befine suggested they could (also an opinion), then your opinion remains an opinion, just like his.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(02-14-2019, 10:19 AM)Cartman Wrote: You're forming an opinion derived from the obvious, just like everyone else does here.

Until it is tested and proven that our linebackers cannot play in a 3-4, as Befine suggested they could (also an opinion), then your opinion remains an opinion, just like his.

That’s silly. We seen the Bengals in .a 4 3 defense. That’s what they play although not very well. Lawson m Hubbard have never played in a 3 4 and now I’m supposed to agree that they will be just fine in a 3 4 in the pros.

My opinion is Dalton will never be as good TOM Brady but it’s just my opinion n not proven yet.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-14-2019, 10:19 AM)Cartman Wrote: You're forming an opinion derived from the obvious, just like everyone else does here.

Until it is tested and proven that our linebackers cannot play in a 3-4, as Befine suggested they could (also an opinion), then your opinion remains an opinion, just like his.

Our LB's are pretty terrible in a 4-3. I think either way we need new LB's.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-14-2019, 11:44 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: That’s silly.  We seen the Bengals in .a 4 3 defense. That’s what they play although not very well.  Lawson m Hubbard have never played in a 3 4 and now I’m supposed to agree that they will be just fine in a 3 4 in the pros.

My opinion is Dalton will never be as good TOM Brady but it’s just my opinion n not proven yet.

I agree with you.

Lawson is a 1 dimensional pass rusher. The Bengals use him almost exclusively in that role. He can't stop the run. He's not good in coverage.

Hubbard? I don't know on. He had a lot of splash plays this year, but he actually graded out really low most of the year.

IF Lawson was better, I'm sure they'd consider playing in in a 4-3 at OLB.

[Older Than You Too]

(02-14-2019, 10:19 AM)Cartman Wrote: You're forming an opinion derived from the obvious, just like everyone else does here.

Until it is tested and proven that our linebackers cannot play in a 3-4, as Befine suggested they could (also an opinion), then your opinion remains an opinion, just like his.

Nope, we don't even have the LBs to play a good 4-3 anymore, much less an extra one for a 3-4. Bfine suggested we just switch everyone's position and have ends become LBs because... Madden? 

[*Synric*]

(02-14-2019, 07:38 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: Nope, we don't even have the LBs to play a good 4-3 anymore, much less an extra one for a 3-4. Bfine suggested we just switch everyone's position and have ends become LBs because... Madden? 

There is more than one type of 43 and 34 defense. Jack Del Rio ran a 2 gap 43 which would look more like the Steelers 2 gap 34. Wade Phillips runs a 1 gap 34 that looks more like a 43 under. 

In fact a 1 gap 34 in a nickle is a 4 2 5 alignment.