Remember the Good Old Days

[THE PISTONS]

(02-14-2019, 11:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I supported Marvin as much as anyone in this forum, but after the last 3 years, a change had to be made.

Who would supported well below average performance over the last 3 years and still pledge their support? 

Marvin wasn't a great coach, but look at all the free agents we lost over the last 3 years and who we replaced them with...

I think a lot of coaches would struggle with that. We lost core guys.

[grampahol]

(02-14-2019, 09:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I haven't seen a lot of "season is over" talk. Mostly people that are antsy that it's taking so long, and the candidate list is drying up. I think the level of worry on the boards is perfectly understandable. We can all admit that not having half your defensive staff in mid-February is a bit out of the norm in the NFL, right?

All that said, there are still some solid candidates available, and this defense has nowhere to go but up. I'll put it this way, I'm still fairly optimistic about everything, but this situation has my antenna up. We've been linked to 8 guys so far and none worked out for various reasons. It's pretty crazy.

The thing about things not being able to get worse is things can ALWAYS get worse. Example: Say for example opponents score an average of 100 points a game against you. You might think it can't get worse, but imagine 101 points per game.. How about 150 points per...200? 300? 3000? a MILLION..  Of course nobody is ever going to score a million points per game, but things can ALWAYS get worse.. Even death can get worse than just death, say, for example extreme, prolonged torture before death.. 
Things can always get worse..  That's not to say they can't get better.. Of course they can get better, but they can always get worse.

[mon4078]

The only thing that worries me is having the whole staff ready for scouting and free agency. I think coach Taylor will find the right guy for the team he is trying to build. Unlike some I don't feel like we are on the 5th-6th option. The only person that has really turned us down was Grantham. I know that Capers refused the interview ,but it was no guarantee that he would have got the job. So I will just wait and see how the season goes before getting upset. With all the changes that have been made it should be a entertaining season Who-Dey.

[grampahol]

(02-14-2019, 06:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: When Jungle noise complained about the coaches we had? Now we complain about not having one.

I think we went through the 90s without a coaching staff.. Well, not technically true, but that Shula dude was about as close to no coaching staff as we ever had.. 

[Shake n Blake]

(02-15-2019, 01:39 AM)grampahol Wrote: The thing about things not being able to get worse is things can ALWAYS get worse. Example: Say for example opponents score an average of 100 points a game against you. You might think it can't get worse, but imagine 101 points per game.. How about 150 points per...200? 300? 3000? a MILLION..  Of course nobody is ever going to score a million points per game, but things can ALWAYS get worse.. Even death can get worse than just death, say, for example extreme, prolonged torture before death.. 
Things can always get worse..  That's not to say they can't get better.. Of course they can get better, but they can always get worse.

You're looking at it way too deeply. 

We ranked (IIRC) 32nd in yards allowed last year. 30th in points allowed. We gave up 150 yards more than 31st place, and set a team record for yards allowed.

It'll be difficult to top that, and even if we do, there's not much difference between absolute dog crap and filthy stinkin' dog crap.

[kevin]

(02-14-2019, 06:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: When Jungle noise complained about the coaches we had? Now we complain about not having one.

News in. Kim Jong Un just turned down Bengals Defensive Coordinator job.  Congress and President finally agree on something, none of them want Bengals Defensive Coordinator job.   Many homeless now walking streets with signs saying, " Will Work For Food, Will NOT Work For Mike Brown ".

[fredtoast]

(02-14-2019, 11:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I supported Marvin as much as anyone in this forum, but after the last 3 years, a change had to be made.

Who would supported well below average performance over the last 3 years and still pledge their support? 

This.

I will still defend Marvin when someone claims he was "the worst", but that does not mean I did not want him replaced.  And I actually felt that way after the 2017 season.  I was shocked they brought him back last year.

[*Nately120*]

(02-14-2019, 11:31 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yeah, but where did our record rank over the last 3 seasons? 

In the end, if we go 4-12 this year, it's not much different than going 6-10 with Marv. 

We didn't really risk anything by firing Marv because he really wasn't even producing in regular season anymore. 

I don't mind having a coaching staff that is going to be thrown into the fire like a rookie QB on the Browns, but if we go 4-12 next year that'll be 4 losing seasons in a row and the possible end of the Dalton/Green era...and what a tailspin of an ending it would be.

If we are going to take the next season or two taking our lumps to the point where we are thinking 2021 and onward to contend then we should move Dalton and Green and some other players (well...maybe not total Pittsburgh Pirates, style) and get Tannehill on the cheap and let him take the lumps and mentor a rookie QB.

Our coaching staff is looking to be very in over their heads, but our roster says we are in "win now" mode.  As Columbo would say "It just doesn't add up."

(02-14-2019, 11:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I supported Marvin as much as anyone in this forum, but after the last 3 years, a change had to be made.

Who would supported well below average performance over the last 3 years and still pledge their support? 

My guess is we give ZT a total pass for the next year or two and IF things are bad bad bad here, we decide a total talent overhaul will be just what the doctor ordered like 2011.

[fortyyearfan]

(02-14-2019, 09:14 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: We can say a lot about Marvin, but he was one of the most respected coaches in the league oddly enough. That's why it was easy for him to always bring in well-known coaches we thought would never consider Cincinnati to be a good destination (when he had the choice, that is). It was always going to be a challenge for ZT or whoever we hired to bring to sway a DC to come here because they don't have the same clout as Marv did. WTS, I do believe ZT is doing a thorough coaching search and isn't just going to hire a guy for the hell of it. It's easy to say just hire someone so they can get evaluate the defense and get ready for FA, but if the Bengals don't end up signing free agents anyway, that guy will fail regardless. And that's another wasted year and I do think ZT wants to win right away if he can help it.

No to old marvin,that ship has sailed,please do not mention his name on here.Lets talk sense.No one wants to see him near this place again.He is so old news.Our new coach WILL get his man and he will be a person that fits.It takes some time,and he is weeding out the no shows.After we have a winning season,they will be lining up to come here.I would like a college coach that is already coaching as a DC.They are out there,lets get behind our new staff.

[McC]

(02-14-2019, 11:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote:

As always, dirty is in the mind of the beholder.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-14-2019, 09:12 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In Mike Brown we trust? Nah, I can't say that with a straight face. 

Hell no.

I am talking about what Zac, Duke, Katie, Troy and Paul are doing.

Different than Son of Paul and it is pretty damn obvious.

Zac needs to put HIS team in place without Mikey's influence.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-15-2019, 01:44 AM)mon4078 Wrote: The only thing that worries me is having the whole staff ready for scouting and free agency. I think coach Taylor will find the right guy for the team he is trying to build. Unlike some I don't feel like we are on the 5th-6th option. The only person that has really turned us down was Grantham. I know that Capers refused the interview ,but it was no guarantee that he would have got the job. So I will just wait and see how the season goes before getting upset. With all the changes that have been made it should be a entertaining season Who-Dey.

Well said and the only reason Grantham turned us down is Florida panicked and gave him increased pay in his home state where his family lives. I don't understand how some have to make up stories to make their team sound like the one no one wants to be apart of. We have awesome dudes like AJ Green, Geno Atkins, Carlos Dunlap, Gio Bernard, Andy Dalton that love being apart of this team.

I am a proud Bengals fan and am excited about the future.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-15-2019, 12:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't mind having a coaching staff that is going to be thrown into the fire like a rookie QB on the Browns, but if we go 4-12 next year that'll be 4 losing seasons in a row and the possible end of the Dalton/Green era...and what a tailspin of an ending it would be.

If we are going to take the next season or two taking our lumps to the point where we are thinking 2021 and onward to contend then we should move Dalton and Green and some other players (well...maybe not total Pittsburgh Pirates, style) and get Tannehill on the cheap and let him take the lumps and mentor a rookie QB.

Our coaching staff is looking to be very in over their heads, but our roster says we are in "win now" mode.  As Columbo would say "It just doesn't add up."

My guess is we give ZT a total pass for the next year or two and IF things are bad bad bad here, we decide a total talent overhaul will be just what the doctor ordered like 2011.

My overall point was that I'd rather lose and say "we tried something different" than lose with Marvin Lewis.

I agree though. It's "win now" or a total rebuild is looming.

(02-15-2019, 01:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hell no.

I am talking about what Zac, Duke, Katie, Troy and Paul are doing.

Different than Son of Paul and it is pretty damn obvious.

Zac needs to put HIS team in place without Mikey's influence.

...and maybe he is. As long as Mike is alive though, I have trouble believing he isn't involved. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-15-2019, 01:47 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: ...and maybe he is. As long as Mike is alive though, I have trouble believing he isn't involved. 

...and that is okay as long is he isn't pushing shit on Taylor.

I believe there are enough minds in the room now to prevent this from happening.

This was not the case in the past.

[*Nately120*]

(02-15-2019, 01:47 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: My overall point was that I'd rather lose and say "we tried something different" than lose with Marvin Lewis. I agree though. It's "win now" or a total rebuild is looming. 

I'd rather lose and say "hey we tried something different" too.  Hell, I'm at the point where I'd rather put a kangaroo with a headset on the sidelines and replace our o-line with Lithuanian acrobats.

With that being said, if things go total crapola in 2019 and it really is a "take yer lumps, kid" sort of scenario, I don't want to see us sitting on Dalton and Green until their contracts expire and we get comp picks for them. 2018 was all on the coaches and 2019 may very well be all on the players if things go sour.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-15-2019, 01:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'd rather lose and say "hey we tried something different" too.  Hell, I'm at the point where I'd rather put a kangaroo with a headset on the sidelines and replace our o-line with Lithuanian acrobats.

With that being said, if things go total crapola in 2019 and it really is a "take yer lumps, kid" sort of scenario, I don't want to see us sitting on Dalton and Green until their contracts expire and we get comp picks for them.  2018 was all on the coaches and 2019 may very well be all on the players if things go sour.

No doubt. If we lose this year, I'd trade off some of the core, including Dalton and Green.

Doubt we'd get much for either one at their ages, but it'd really be more about clearing almost $30 million in cap space.

[*Nately120*]

(02-15-2019, 02:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: No doubt. If we lose this year, I'd trade off some of the core, including Dalton and Green.

Doubt we'd get much for either one at their ages, but it'd really be more about clearing almost $30 million in cap space.

I feel like now is the time to trade Dalton, if the DC squad really needs a QB and Gruden still likes him.  If we wait another year they'll have some rookie in there (probably) crapping it up and they'll think they're good to go.  This isn't quite the same as Hue needing Palmer to replace Campbell to attempt to save his job, but I think it's as close as we are going to get.  A familiar coach with an injured starter...this is likely as good as it gets.

Of course, this is based on the notion that 2019 is going to be borderline hopeless because our top 3 coaches are in over their heads like Cody Kessler, too.

[fredtoast]

(02-15-2019, 02:16 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I feel like now is the time to trade Dalton, if the DC squad really needs a QB and Gruden still likes him.  If we wait another year they'll have some rookie in there (probably) crapping it up and they'll think they're good to go.  This isn't quite the same as Hue needing Palmer to replace Campbell to attempt to save his job, but I think it's as close as we are going to get.  A familiar coach with an injured starter...this is likely as good as it gets.

Of course, this is based on the notion that 2019 is going to be borderline hopeless because our top 3 coaches are in over their heads like Cody Kessler, too.

It would be foolish to trade Dalton without a better replacement lined up.  He is not the reason we are losing.  In fact it could take us years to find another QB as good as him.

[*Nately120*]

(02-15-2019, 03:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It would be foolish to trade Dalton without a better replacement lined up.  He is not the reason we are losing.  In fact it could take us years to find another QB as good as him.

I'm not blaming Dalton, I just don't see him spending the rest of his career here, so we may as well part at the most opportune time.

I'm just assuming Taylor is going to want to draft and develop his own guy if he is here for the long haul.  And I'm not saying Dalton is a problem, but I don't see a QB with 0 playoff wins and over 30 years old sticking around if he has a 4th losing season in a row while we are supposedly trying to start anew.

In not saying it is fair, I'm just saying that I don't think the players have coaching to blame, anymore. 

[fredtoast]

(02-15-2019, 03:39 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm just assuming Taylor is going to want to draft and develop his own guy if he is here for the long haul. 

I am assuming he wants to win instead just making everything "his".