{The Ultimate ANDY DALTON Mega Thread}

[RiverRat13]

(09-22-2015, 08:08 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The Colts are a very overrated team. They are 10-12 outside of their division since 2013. On the other hand the Bengals are a very underrated team. They are 17-4-1 outside their division since 2013.

The AFCS is such a bad division. The Texans don't have a good secondary anymore. Their defense is all about their front 7. The Titans are on the rise, but have been jokes for a while. The Jags are just a joke.

Yep. The Colts are flat-out soft. That's what made the two games the Bengals played against them so disappointing, no matter the injury situation.

[Shake n Blake]

Fun fact: In 9 games since the 2.0 game, Dalton has a 97.9 passer rating.

He's also completed 68.8% of his passes for 16 TD's and only 8 INT's.

[djs7685]

(09-23-2015, 01:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fun fact: In 9 games since the 2.0 game, Dalton has a 97.9 passer rating.

He's also completed 68.8% of his passes for 16 TD's and only 8 INT's.

Even more fun fact: Andy is playing a lot like Russell Wilson has in the past, yet all of the Wilson haters are trying as hard as possible to ignore that when it's brought up.

Andy has been running the dink n' dunk offense and then throws some nice medium to long passes occasionally but not too often. He hasn't been racking up attempts and yards but he's playing smart and efficient football.

I was told over the offseason that RW and others like him can't be considered great QBs because of his playstyle and how good the team around him has been. I'd just like to see any of the detractors own up and either admit that RW is/was easily top 10 or I'd love to hear them pick apart Andy's play like they did Wilson's. I won't hold my breath for either to happen though.

It's a funny thing how a QB's yardage totals aren't such a big deal when Andy is ranked 15th in that category but he's playing great in the meantime

[Rhinocero23]

(09-12-2015, 09:49 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's finally arrived!  

The long-awaited, much anticipated thread to post anything and everything about the most polarizing QB in the NFL.

It was discussed many times on the old board and a few times here...sometimes in jest, and sometimes for real. Then I saw it brought up again in Fred's thread...so what the hell, let's actually do it.

With the season starting tomorrow, there's no better time to give it a try and see how it goes. Hopefully, instead of starting thread, after thread, after thread about AD...members can contain (at least the majority of) their love, hate, praise, criticism and analysis in this one official, super-duper, thread to end all threads!

Will it work? Maybe not, but what the hell...it should at least be interesting.   

Had to update my sig to record the most recent current win against a team with a winning record. Team has looked great the first two weeks and Andy has looked the same. Here is hopping for to it continuing through Feb!!!

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 04:37 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Had to update my sig to record the most recent current win against a team with a winning record. Team has looked great the first two weeks and Andy has looked the same. Here is hopping for to it continuing through Feb!!!

You sig is wrong anyways.

we were 6-4-1 against .500 and better teams last year (at the time, which is what your stats are going by otherwise we wouldn't have that tie)
we were 6-1 against .500 and better teams in 2013
we were 4-3 against .500 and better teams in 2012
and I don't feel like looking up what we were in 2011.

So that right there we are 16-8-1, but like I said I got too lazy to finish 2011, because the wiki link didn't take to that year for the team.

[*Synric*]

It's all about perception.

If Andy had won in the first round once or twice and been knocked out in the second he'd be considered a top QB with his regular season record. Since he's been 1 and done 4 times he made himself an easy target for the media.

[BengalChris]

(09-23-2015, 09:02 PM)Synric Wrote: It's all about perception.

If Andy had won in the first round once or twice and been knocked out in the second he'd be considered a top QB with his regular season record. Since he's been 1 and done 4 times he made himself an easy target for the media.

All Dalton had to do was play well enough to win from his position at QB (regardless of how the rest of the team did) in any two of those playoff games and he would be considered a good QB just under those guys who have SB rings. But that didn't have occur in the slightest and you add the prime time implosions and you have his image.

He's made his own image. It wasn't created by the media.

We look at the Colts right now and it shows just how much Luck has carried that team since he arrived. The Bengals have talent everywhere, by contrast.

I hope Dalton continues as he has the last two games and creates a new image for himself. Two games isn't enough though. He's going to have to do it in prime time, then in the playoffs.

[*Synric*]

(09-23-2015, 09:51 PM)BengalChris Wrote: All Dalton had to do was play well enough to win from his position at QB (regardless of how the rest of the team did) in any two of those playoff games and he would be considered a good QB just under those guys who have SB rings. But that didn't have occur in the slightest and you add the prime time implosions and you have his image.

He's made his own image. It wasn't created by the media.

We look at the Colts right now and it shows just how much Luck has carried that team since he arrived. The Bengals have talent everywhere, by contrast.

I hope Dalton continues as he has the last two games and creates a new image for himself. Two games isn't enough though. He's going to have to do it in prime time, then in the playoffs.

Eli manning is considered an elite QB while I don't doubt his efforts in 2 Super Bowl runs he is the definition of an inconsistent QB. Perception by the media is everything.

[West Union KennyG]

(09-21-2015, 02:12 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I agree with this post 100%, except I can't suggest that the Green Repper an idiot. I really liked that dude on the old boards. That said, I strongly disagree that Dalton is top 5 or even top 10. Now if Dalton can maintain close to this level of play through the season while not having many huge stinkers, I do think it's possible he gets around top 10. Rankings are always fluid.

It's way too early to tell, and way too early for I told you so's. I'm anxious to see though. He's really being smart with the ball, his accuracy has been outstanding and they're doing a superb job of spreading the ball around to literally everyone. I just hope he can continue to show all these things when the line starts giving up some sacks and more pressure, because that's definitely going to happen.

If anything, I have a tendency to get more dramatic when the conversation is largely one sided in a way I see as mostly unfair.
Still, I'll stand by my top 10 statement, and others can call me what they want. I know what I see in this kid, and I find him impressive - he's a winner. Take his total wins and compare them to other QBS in the league. I know it's a team sport, but as the point person for the offense, that's a lot of wins. Some might even say, top 10 caliber. So there.

[djs7685]

(09-24-2015, 03:28 AM)West Union KennyG Wrote: If anything, I have a tendency to get more dramatic when the conversation is largely one sided in a way I see as mostly unfair.
Still, I'll stand by my top 10 statement, and others can call me what they want. I know what I see in this kid, and I find him impressive - he's a winner. Take his total wins and compare them to other QBS in the league. I know it's a team sport, but as the point person for the offense, that's a lot of wins. Some might even say, top 10 caliber. So there.

He has potential to be considered top 10. But so does Blake Bortles, Ryan Tannehill, Marcus Mariota, Derek Carr, Teddy Bridgewater, Cam Newton, etc. etc.

Andy looks great this year. We'll have to see what happens over a full season first through, can't quite crown him yet.

If you actually watched Andy play football from 2011-2014 and couldn't easily name 10 better QBs, then you're just a blind homer. There's nothing hateful about putting Andy where he belongs in the rankings.

FWIW, I had Andy higher than like 75% of the board when we did offseason rankings a couple months ago. There's just no universe where anyone outside of a bunch of homers that would call the guy top 10, he's not there yet. Wins are okay to judge a team but there's muuuuuuuuuch more to evaluate when it comes to individual player rankings.

[Rhinocero23]

(09-23-2015, 05:01 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: You sig is wrong anyways.

we were 6-4-1 against .500 and better teams last year (at the time, which is what your stats are going by otherwise we wouldn't have that tie)
we were 6-1 against .500 and better teams in 2013
we were 4-3 against .500 and better teams in 2012
and I don't feel like looking up what we were in 2011.

So that right there we are 16-8-1, but like I said I got too lazy to finish 2011, because the wiki link didn't take to that year for the team.

Better than .500 not .500 or better.

[BengalChris]

(09-24-2015, 01:57 AM)Synric Wrote: Eli manning is considered an elite QB while I don't doubt his efforts in 2 Super Bowl runs he is the definition of an inconsistent QB. Perception by the media is everything.

Eli is not elite and certainly not in the top 5 QBs. He has won two SBs and that's what puts him in the top 10, although at the low end of the top 10.

Eli controls his own play, nothing to do with the media. The media didn't win those two SB and all those playoff games.

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-24-2015, 10:19 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Eli is not elite and certainly not in the top 5 QBs. He has won two SBs and that's what puts him in the top 10, although at the low end of the top 10.

Eli controls his own play, nothing to do with the media. The media didn't win those two SB and all those playoff games.

I thought teams win SB?  

[Shake n Blake]

(09-24-2015, 03:28 AM)West Union KennyG Wrote: If anything, I have a tendency to get more dramatic when the conversation is largely one sided in a way I see as mostly unfair.  
Still, I'll stand by my top 10 statement, and others can call me what they want.  I know what I see in this kid, and I find him impressive - he's a winner.  Take his total wins and compare them to other QBS in the league.  I know it's a team sport, but as the point person for the offense, that's a lot of wins.  Some might even say, top 10 caliber.  So there.

I wouldn't put him there yet, although I think he has the potential and I can see why some believe he's there or close to it. If you look at the wins, the stats and accomplishments without looking at the name, he's done some impressive things.

That said, I can't view him as top 10 until he shows me a full season with a passer rating in the 90's and a lower INT%. If he does that this season, I may be right there with ya.

(09-24-2015, 12:10 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I thought teams win SB?  

Stop being silly. That only works when you're taking credit from Dalton for regular season wins.

[djs7685]

(09-24-2015, 12:38 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I wouldn't put him there yet, although I think he has the potential and I can see why some believe he's there or close to it. If you look at the wins, the stats and accomplishments without looking at the name, he's done some impressive things.

That said, I can't view him as top 10 until he shows me a full season with a passer rating in the 90's and a lower INT%. If he does that this season, I may be right there with ya.

Question about the bold. What compelling arguments do the "Andy is top 10" crowd even have? I don't understand that whatsoever. I can understand when people think he's close, hell, I'm an "Andy hater" and I have him at 12-13 and that's not even me considering anything in the 2015 so far! Back to the point though..

Flacco and Eli don't have the best regular season stats, but they had great postseason runs. Ryan, Rivers, and Romo may not have the playoff appearances/wins/performances but they've been clearly better in the regular season. Wilson doesn't have the inflated volume of other top QBs, but has been clearly better than most in almost every possible way otherwise. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger aren't even questionable. That's 11 guys right there that are just not debatable that are better than Andy. Even if you find a way to nitpick 1 guy like Eli or Flacco, he's still outside the top 10. That's not even bringing up the fact that there are other guys in the middle tier that some random people will throw in the top 10 like your occasional Stafford sighting.

The only way to "see why some believe he's there" is if you ignore anything that actually matters when it comes to evaluating a QB. Let's be honest, you're just trying to be nice to this guy because you like him as a poster. There is NO legitimate reason to believe he's a top 10 QB, and he hasn't been at any point in his career. No one outside of a few whacked out Bengals homers have believed so, and that will hopefully end in 2015. I think he can get there after a great season this year, but let's just not sugarcoat things for the sake of a poster you used to like and let's call it as it is in reality.

[jj22]

Question.

Is Dalton a warm weather qb? All this talk about our fast starts (specifically his), is it possible he'd be a better qb in a dome, or warm weather city? I think he falters late in the season, and I think there is a correlation with the weather change.... It's hard for me to act like he's improved because he's always started out strong. We won't know if he's really improved until Nov.

Thoughts?

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-24-2015, 02:06 PM)jj22 Wrote: Question.

Is Dalton a warm weather qb? All this talk about our fast starts (specifically his), is it possible he'd be a better qb in a dome, or warm weather city? I think he falters late in the season, and I think there is a correlation with the weather change.... It's hard for me to act like he's improved because he's always started out strong. We won't know if he's really improved until Nov.

Thoughts?

Wasn't his career month November a few years back? 

[jj22]

October I thought. But I could be wrong. 2013 maybe? But I thought he won the player of the month award in October. Def not 2011 and 2012 (that late run was all defense). Def not 2014.

[djs7685]

(09-24-2015, 02:09 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Wasn't his career month November a few years back? 

October

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-24-2015, 02:12 PM)jj22 Wrote: October I thought. But I could be wrong. 2013 maybe? But I thought he won the player of the month award in October.

(09-24-2015, 02:12 PM)djs7685 Wrote: October

Still seems silly to say there's a huge difference between October and November.

Unless you mean inclement weather, which I could get behind because most QBs struggle in the elements.