Most underrated Bengal?

[Shake n Blake]

(03-06-2019, 02:56 PM)impactplaya Wrote: he had a 25 sacks in 4 seasons. he put up Wallace Gilberry type production.
at his size 6'4 335 he should have a 3 down force.
drawing double teams even from time to time.
he rarely saw him dominate.

Gilbbery had 20 sacks in 5 season. So 5 less sacks in one more season.

And we're comparing an end to a guy who was a DT or a 3-4 end. 

Considering that, it's a huge difference. 

[fredtoast]

(03-06-2019, 02:56 PM)impactplaya Wrote: he had a 25 sacks in 4 seasons. he put up Wallace Gilberry type production.
at his size 6'4 335 he should have a 3 down force.
drawing double teams even from time to time.
he rarely saw him dominate.

Are you trying to claim we could have gotten a first round and third round pick in trade for Gilberry?  

Wilkinson was a very good player.  Doesn't matter if you liked him or not.  You don't get a first and third round pick in trade for a "bust". 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-06-2019, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Are you trying to claim we could have gotten a first round and third round pick in trade for Gilberry?  

Wilkinson was a very good player.  Doesn't matter if you liked him or not.  You don't get a first and third round pick in trade for a "bust". 

He was. Impact is just saying Wilkinson didn't live up to "#1 overall" type of expectations. But not everyone has the same expectations.
I'm actually with you, as long as someone is a very good player, that's all that should matter. But not everyone thinks that way.

[J24]

While where on the subject I always thought Gillberry was underrated during his time here. Also I consider him a DT because he played there more than Defensive End during his time here.

[BengalFanInNJ]

Brian Leonard

[GreenCornBengal]

I've only been a fan since 03, so I'm limited in who I can choose here.

I'm gonna say Nate Clements. He was a good corner for us. He wasn't flashy, but he did his job.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-06-2019, 09:45 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Brian Leonard

Not trying to pick a fight or anything, but Leonard would be on my list for overrated players.

He had a total of 967 combined yards and 1 TD in 4 years. 

He had some good 3rd down conversions here and there, and we all loved the leap, but he really didn't do much for us overall.

[Brownshoe]

#14 is the most underrated imo. Hes the best QB the Bengals have had IMO. If you talk about elite QBs hes never in the conversation. If he doesnt go into the hall of fame its probably only because he was on the Bengals and he never won a SB. I would say the vast majority of people dont even know who Kenny Anderson is other than Bengals fans. I know he does get recognized in this board, but he should have a lot more notoriety than he gets now.

[BengalFanInNJ]

(03-06-2019, 09:50 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Not trying to pick a fight or anything, but Leonard would be on my list for overrated players.

He had a total of 967 combined yards and 1 TD in 4 years. 

He had some good 3rd down conversions here and there, and we all loved the leap, but he really didn't do much for us overall.

Chris Crocker even said in 2009 he should have been the team MVP. 

[Shake n Blake]

(03-06-2019, 10:04 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Chris Crocker even said in 2009 he should have been the team MVP. 

Players never make emotion fueled statements or prop up teammates. 

Leonard had 301 yards and 0 TD's in 2009. In no way was he the MVP, no matter how many 3rd down plays he had.

...and fwiw, Leonard had 20 first downs that year. 

Benson - 1362 yards - 6 TD's - 62 first downs (this was a career year)
Scott - 388 yards - 0 TD's - 18 first downs
Leonard - 301 yards - 0 TD's - 20 first downs 
Chad - 1079 yards - 9 TD's - 57 first downs

As much as Leonard had some big conversions that year, you can't rationally put him ahead of Benson or Chad.

Or even Palmer and some of the defensive players like Dhani.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-06-2019, 01:09 AM)Fullrock Wrote: Do you understand what underrated means? It means players who produce but don't get the credit they deserve for that production. You actually proved how Ross was underrated by stating he was the 3rd or 4th option on a team when he actually led the team in receptions, and in fact set a franchise record at the time. His production far outweighed your perception of him. THAT is being underrated. I think you're confused LOL.

I think what he was saying is that those guys do get their deserved recognition in the collective memory of Bengal fans.  He may even be suggesting that they get more credit than is deserved, (I don't wholly agree with that) and goes on to explain that Tony McGee had great numbers and is hardly a blip on the memory of Bengal fans.  I'd say that the man fully understands the difference between under and overrated.

[BengalFanInNJ]

(03-06-2019, 10:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Players never make emotion fueled statements or prop up teammates. 

Leonard had 301 yards and 0 TD's in 2009. In no way was he the MVP, no matter how many 3rd down plays he had.

...and fwiw, Leonard had 20 first downs that year. 

Benson - 1362 yards - 6 TD's - 62 first downs (this was a career year)
Scott - 388 yards - 0 TD's - 18 first downs
Leonard - 301 yards - 0 TD's - 20 first downs 
Chad - 1079 yards - 9 TD's - 57 first downs

As much as Leonard had some big conversions that year, you can't rationally put him ahead of Benson or Chad.

Or even Palmer and some of the defensive players like Dhani.

I wouldn't put him ahead of Benson or Chad either. We are saying who we think was underrated and not the actual team MVP. So the fact that a fellow player thinks one should be the team MVP leads me to believe that they are worthy of being, at least, underrated. Stats don't show everything even though I will say that Leonard's YPC was awful that year. 

[Shake n Blake]

(03-07-2019, 12:19 AM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: I wouldn't put him ahead of Benson or Chad either. We are saying who we think was underrated and not the actual team MVP. So the fact that a fellow player thinks one should be the team MVP leads me to believe that they are worthy of being, at least, underrated. Stats don't show everything even though I will say that Leonard's YPC was awful that year. 

Yeah, you posted the Crocker MVP quote, so I was just showing how ridiculous that claim is/was. 

It's just hard to say a guy is underrated when he averaged less than 250 total yards and had a grand total of 1 TD in 4 years. 

Especially when the guy happened to be one of the more popular players during his tenure despite the lack of production.

[fredtoast]

(03-06-2019, 09:50 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: #14 is the most underrated imo. Hes the best QB the Bengals have had IMO. If you talk about elite QBs hes never in the conversation. If he doesnt go into the hall of fame its probably only because he was on the Bengals and he never won a SB. I would say the vast majority of people dont even know who Kenny Anderson is other than Bengals fans. I know he does get recognized in this board, but he should have a lot more notoriety than he gets now.

Very true.  He is huge to Bengal fans, but does not get a lot of recognition nationwide.  It is ridiculous that he is not in the Hall of Fame.  


But nationwide Lemar Parrish gets even less love.  I think he was blackballed because of some drug problems after he retired.  But even though he held the NFL career record for return TDs for almost TWO DECADES ('77-'96) until Deion broke it in 1996 no one ever mentions Parrish as an all time great.  He was a First-Team All-Pro and 8 time Pro-Bowl selection.  He still holds the record for the highest single season punt return average since the AFL/NFL merger.  His 18.8 avg in '74 is the highest in the last 58 years.

[*bfine32*]

(03-06-2019, 09:50 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: #14 is the most underrated imo. Hes the best QB the Bengals have had IMO. If you talk about elite QBs hes never in the conversation. If he doesnt go into the hall of fame its probably only because he was on the Bengals and he never won a SB. I would say the vast majority of people dont even know who Kenny Anderson is other than Bengals fans. I know he does get recognized in this board, but he should have a lot more notoriety than he gets now.

No doubt Pornstache should be more recognized Nationally, but I read the OP as underrated by the fanbase. Bengal fans love Kenny A. 

If we what to go Nationally, I'd have to trot out the Rattler. Dude has HOF numbers and was never once voted to a Pro Bowl. That's some disrespect right there.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-05-2019, 03:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Pickens was just an incredible athlete.

His sophomore season in college they moved him from WR to safety in the middle of the season.  He ended up leading the team in interceptions and winning the Defensive MVP in the Cotton Bowl.  And Tennessee was a top 5 team that year.

I think he still holds the Bengal record for longest PR (95 yds), and in college he scored tds on receptions, punt returns, kick returns and interception returns.

From 94-96 he averaged over 90 receptions per year racking up 3540 receiving yards and 40 td for the Bengals.

While the classic "million dollar body with a nickel head", there were games where Pickens was just unstoppable. Maybe the best Bengal WR I had ever seen....not all the time, but when he was on....just ridiculous.  And it wasn't like the Bengals were loaded with weapons around him.  

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(03-07-2019, 06:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No doubt Pornstache should be more recognized Nationally, but I read the OP as underrated by the fanbase. Bengal fans love Kenny A. 

If we what to go Nationally, I'd have to trot out the Rattler. Dude has HOF numbers and was never once voted to a Pro Bowl. That's some disrespect right there.

Yeah, both Parrish and Riley deserve the Hall, Riley in particular.

[XenoMorph]

these past 9 years I have to think based on how people comment on him its dalton

[Wes Mantooth]

Sorry if it was mention already (on mobile and too lazy to look) but I thought Landon Johnson was terribly underrated. Nobody seemed to make much of a fuss when he left, but I remember thinking he was a mucher bigger loss.

I think we snagged him in the 3rd. He saw a ton of PT and developed extremely well I thouhht. I think he had a couple 100+ tackle years, and led the team his last year. And this was right after the disaster that was Thurman and Pollack, and right befofe we started dumpster diving and calling up Dhani Jones on his couch. (i.e. We weren't sitting on a pile of starting caliber LB's at the time)

The dude left and it just seemed liked no one noticed or cared. I'm pretty sure he didnt get any crazy deal or anything. I remember wondering why the hell no one seemed to be sweating his loss. I felt like I was taking crazy pills. It was mind bottling!

I do have another, but it would take more effort than Im willing to give to properly explain... Carson Palmer is ridiculously underrated by current fans. He was a legitimate top 5 QB before and AFTER his injury. Carson Palmer in 04, 05, 06, 07 makes Andy Dalton look like hot garbage. People can point to inflated stats a decade out, and lean on hurt feelings all they want, but if you actually watched those years you'd know what a talent he was. It's a shame things turned out as they did, but he deserves way more respect IMHO.

[fredtoast]

(03-08-2019, 10:43 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Sorry if it was mention already (on mobile and too lazy to look) but I thought Landon Johnson was terribly underrated. Nobody seemed to make much of a fuss when he left, but I remember thinking he was a mucher bigger loss.

I think we snagged him in the 3rd. He saw a ton of PT and developed extremely well I thouhht. I think he had a couple 100+ tackle years, and led the team his last year. And this was right after the disaster that was Thurman and Pollack, and right befofe we started dumpster diving and calling up Dhani Jones on his couch. (i.e. We weren't sitting on a pile of starting caliber LB's at the time)

The dude left and it just seemed liked no one noticed or cared. I'm pretty sure he didnt get any crazy deal or anything.  I remember wondering why the hell no one seemed to be sweating his loss. I felt like I was taking crazy pills. It was mind bottling!

Landon Johnson played early in his career due to injuries in front of him.  I remember him saying that he was down to as low as 210 lbs when he was playing MLB his rookie season.

Over the years he gained weight and became a decent starter.  When he left he got a good contract from Caroline.  Not superstar money, but starter money.