This team needs to tank

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(03-14-2019, 05:40 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Did I miss a 3rd team in SB? Patriots, Rams and Bears? I know you said playoff, but how'd that workout?

Never said Bears won a playoff game, just say he was a big part in the turnaround. So you would turn your nose up at Mack too....WOW!

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2019, 05:48 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: 5-11 (10th Def) to 12-4 (3rd Def). Mack made a huge difference.

2010 Bengals won 4 games.  2011 team went to playoffs.

But that did not matter because the Bengals never won a playoff game, remember?

[*Nately120*]

(03-14-2019, 04:18 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Since 1966, Bengals have only had 3 1st Round, Number 1 draft picks..
1994 Dan Wilkenson
1995 Kijana Carter
2003 Carson Palmer

Since 1966
Tampa Bay 5
Atlanta 4
Buffalo 4
Cleveland 4
Indianapolis 4
New England 4

My point is that we've had the same GM making those picks.  How often does a real GM stay employed long enough to finish dead last more than 3 times with the same team?

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(03-14-2019, 05:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 2010 Bengals won 4 games.  2011 team went to playoffs.

But that did not matter because the Bengals never won a playoff game, remember?

NOPE! ...and I’m sure Bears fans were upset they didn’t win the playoff game, but I guarantee everyone of them was thankful the Bears got Mack and not “value” players.

[yang]

(03-14-2019, 09:28 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Seriously...I know it sounds backwards, but if this organization were committed to winning they would begin the tanking process. They don't have a chance at winning the division this year and are most likely going to end the year looking up at the Ravens, Steelers, and Browns.

Why tank? To get the first pick in the draft and reboot the QB position. To accumulate draft picks and swap out old veteran guys that are on the back end of their career for younger, cheaper talent.

If im the Bengals, I commit to rebuilding and tanking over the next couple of seasons. I would draft Klyer Murray this year, evaluate him and see if he can be the QB of the future. If not, continue looking for your guy or hold out for the ultimate prize of Trevor Lawrence. Trade guys like AJ, Geno, and Dunlap for picks.

The window is closed. Time to reboot and start over.

Well, looks like you are partly getting your wish.  It's too late since we signed Geno and Dunlap. We will sign AJ and Boyd. I imagine they would like to trade AJ but the fans would revolt in ticket sales. But this is where we ditch everyone else and rebuild with youth. Go for QB next year.

[McC]

(03-14-2019, 05:30 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: And how many playoff wins did we get? Not being a jerk, just think we look at things differently. Look what one impact player (Khalil Mack) did for the Bears.

They didn't sign Mack as a FA.  They traded for him.  

They might have been one dominant defensive player away(turns out they weren't).  Are we?  Are we a team that should tank or a team that's one big FA away?  Which is it? 

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2019, 06:11 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: NOPE! ...and I’m sure Bears fans were upset they didn’t win the playoff game, but I guarantee everyone of them was thankful the Bears got Mack and not “value” players.

What kind of fan cares more about how much a player makes than how many games their team wins.

Is that what is going on with all you guys?  You don't care about wins?  You just want to say we have the highest paid players?

[2MinutesHate]

The drafts of 2010-2013 were the reason we were so good before.

The drafts of 2014-2018 are the reason we are so bad now.  

Upper management has never been big players in FA or ever made creative trades to improve the team.  The absolute failure of these drafts, (except a few gems such as Mixon, Boyd, and WJ3), have resulted in a downward spiral we can't get out of.  There is just one single starter on this team from the 2014 and 2015 drafts, which were unbelievably crippling.   

In my opinion, this is all the more reason to find at least 1 starter (more like 2 or 3) from FA, because we're not getting it done with our draft picks.  '

Throw away players like Hart are not going to resurrect their careers here in Cincinnati.  Sorry folks.  It's never going to happen.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(03-14-2019, 06:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What kind of fan cares more about how much a player makes than how many games their team wins.

Is that what is going on with all you guys?  You don't care about wins?  You just want to say we have the highest paid players?

Are you saying that the highest paid players on a team are typically not the best? I guess being a Bengals fan I can see how your perspective is skewed.

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2019, 06:30 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Are you saying that the highest paid players on a team are typically not the best? 

Again, no, I never said anything like this at all.  All I said is that fans don't care how much a player makes.  Instead they just care how well they produce on the field.  When we improved from 24th to 9th in scoring defense I don't remember a single Bengal fan saying "I wish we had signed one really high paid free agent instead of these three starters."

If you can not respond to what I actually say please stop wasting our time.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(03-14-2019, 06:18 PM)McC Wrote: They didn't sign Mack as a FA.  They traded for him.  

They might have been one dominant defensive player away(turns out they weren't).  Are we?  Are we a team that should tank or a team that's one big FA away?  Which is it? 

Doesn’t matter how hey got him....they made a move. So you would be upset if the Bengals trade for an impact player? Right now, this team is 3-4 years away from contention. So, as upsetting as the Hart deal was...it ultimately doesn’t really matter at this point. I would probably shop AJ to the highest bidder and get some value for him (Am I Right Fred). With the current Bengals philosophy, nailing the next 2-3 Drafts is our only hope.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(03-14-2019, 06:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, no, I never said anything like this at all.  All I said is that fans don't care how much a player makes.  Instead they just care how well they produce on the field.  When we improved from 24th to 9th in scoring defense I don't remember a single Bengal fan saying "I wish we had signed one really high paid free agent instead of these three starters."

If you can not respond to what I actually say please stop wasting our time.

Come on Fred, Let’s be real here, I don’t give a damn how much these guys get paid...they’re all overpaid in my opinion. But I know you pay for production. There is a reason the best players get paid and it ain’t because they suck. If you can’t understand that then I agree... stop wasting our time.

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2019, 06:54 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote:  There is a reason the best players get paid and it ain’t because they suck. If you can’t understand that then I agree... stop wasting our time.

I understand that MANY times a lower paid player will out produce a higher paid player.  It happens all the time.

You mentioned Mahomes earlier.  He makes about $4 million a year.  He is a hell of a "value player".  How many Chiefs fans would rather have Tannehill because he makes $19 million a year instead of Mahomes?

[Andy2AJ]

We need to tank the next two years so we can get Trevor lawerence. If we happen to get the number 2 pick in two years we can trade all our picks to get him

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(03-14-2019, 07:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I understand that MANY times a lower paid player will out produce a higher paid player.  It happens all the time.

You mentioned Mahomes earlier.  He makes about $4 million a year.  He is a hell of a "value player".  How many Chiefs fans would rather have Tannehill because he makes $19 million a year instead of Mahomes?

You do realize Mahomes is on a Rookie deal set by the league....not his market value. I’d be willing to bet Mahomes’ next contract will be one of the highest ever, if not the highest for a QB ....barring injury. Do you maintain that it would be smart to let him walk and use the money to get better value at other positions since he could demand the most money in nfl history?

[J24]

Tanking is a dumbass strategy.l; What they need to do is actually draft and sign good players. Hell the Dalton era started with us trading a our very good QB and all pro WR. So even if we do Tank it doesn't mean we won't be good enough to win next year.

[WeezyBengal]

(03-14-2019, 07:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I understand that MANY times a lower paid player will out produce a higher paid player.  It happens all the time.

You mentioned Mahomes earlier.  He makes about $4 million a year.  He is a hell of a "value player".  How many Chiefs fans would rather have Tannehill because he makes $19 million a year instead of Mahomes?

He's on his rookie contract. Thats completely different and you know it. Just stop. 

[WeezyBengal]

(03-14-2019, 05:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because if it does not work out the contract can hurt the team for years.

EVERY team in the league pays to keep their best players.  So there is always some reason why a player hits free agency.  You claim the Bengals have NEVER signed a top dollar free agent but they have actually done that many times (Palmer, Chad, TJ, Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Whitworth, Green, Dalton, etc, etc).  That is where a team should spend the most free agent money.

I have also said many times that when a team has a roster that is close to competing for a championship they need to step up and take more chances on a free agent or two.  But even then I am wary of spending the huge money on players that other teams have decided to let go instead of paying.

You do realize its a mutual decision on if a player wants to continue to play for the team he is currently on or hit free agency, right? Sometimes players WANT to be free agents even though the team they are on WANTS them to come back and re-sign. 

A player can choose to not re-sign with his current team and to become a free agent for many reasons. Just because a player is a free agent doesnt mean they are somehow damaged goods or there is something wrong with them. 

No one here is advocating that the Bengals go out and blow their entire wad and sign every "big name" free agent out there. We are asking them to be open minded in regards to trades and free agency and to sign QUALITY guys that make sense to supplement a team that is not very good right now...even if the price isn't cheap. 

[McC]

(03-15-2019, 10:17 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You do realize its a mutual decision on if a player wants to continue to play for the team he is currently on or hit free agency, right? Sometimes players WANT to be free agents even though the team they are on WANTS them to come back and re-sign. 

A player can choose to not re-sign with his current team and to become a free agent for many reasons. Just because a player is a free agent doesnt mean they are somehow damaged goods or there is something wrong with them. 

No one here is advocating that the Bengals go out and blow their entire wad and sign every "big name" free agent out there. We are asking them to be open minded in regards to trades and free agency and to sign QUALITY guys that make sense to supplement a team that is not very good right now...even if the price isn't cheap. 

If you look at it realistically, the available players in free agency and our needs did not really line up all that well, splash or no splash.  We've really only missed out on Ja'wan James and Jordan Hicks, a guy who has played well but also spent plenty of time in his career not playing and ended up on IR twice. 

Would anybody have really wanted to drop 54 mil on Kwon Alexander?

So, exactly what quality guys should they have signed?

Also, it's not over yet and trades can still happen,

[Catmandude123]

(03-14-2019, 10:05 AM)fredtoast Wrote: They are all still here so the window has not closed.

There is absolutely no correlation between winning and signing big money free agents.  Just as many really bad team sign big money free agents as good teams.  In fact I will bet that some of the best teams sign fewer top ranked free agents than bad teams.

This is probably  true but they are a lot better at drafting and signing lower tier free agents the and getting rid of players while their value is the highest(Patriots) . When you do things bad in all aspects you need to change what you do.