Can we just take a step back and look at the roster?

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-16-2019, 11:21 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We had a great start to the year when healthy record wise. I see a lot of emphasis on the offense, yes our OL was not good. But our offense when healthy produced better than our defense when healthy.

If we want to be great, we need a top 10 defense minimum, but preferably a top 5 defense. We have a log way to go to improve on defense starting with we need a DL capable of better run support. They do a weak LB group no favors allowing RB's to get down hill on us, we rarely have DL tackles for loss.

The LB group is horrible, Burfict used to be great when on the field. Now, he looks slow and out of shape and misses angles and tackles. He is a shell of the great LB he once was. The CB's are average, they struggle in man to man coverer age and do not tackle well in space.

I think we have very good safety play overall that will get better as Bates get more experience.

Overall, we need Jackson to become a ball hawk like he was in college. We need to add speed and better instinct LB's. I think we need 1 mammoth run stopping DL to play alongside Geno, Billings is an OK back up, but not the answer.

On offense, we need depth at WR. A guy like Core needs to be able to step in and be competitive at WR when guys get hurt, not just be a good ST player. We were decimated at TE and need to rebuild that group. The OL needs Hart to get much better and hopefully Miller helps the right side of the line get much better in 2019.

Yes, we have some talent. But so does every NFL team, we just think our guys are better because they are our guys. AJ is great, but not if he can't stay healthy. He makes too much money to miss 4 to 6 games a year.

So, can the Bengals add a few pieces and be better in 2019? I have my concerns as I have expressed, but I hope I am wrong, I hope we stay a lot healthier if nothing else to eliminate that excuse, but hopefully to get us back to and win a playoff game.

I think our CBs are well above average, especially when asked to do what they are best at which is man coverage.  Dre is a questionable tackler, though he has improved.  One of the biggest issues with the secondary is the lack of pressure from the front four.  Improve the pass rush, and every level of the defense improves.  That is why I am behind the idea of DT first (if one of the top two is there) and LB later.  

[SunsetBengal]

(03-16-2019, 12:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree, but it seems most fans want to focus on offense first. I think we need to address the defense and the talent level first.

Offense and defense work hand in hand to make each other better.  An offense that can not only hold onto the ball for sustained, time consuming drives that also put points on the board helps a defense to be more effective by keeping them off the field and rested.  Not to mention, if you get a two score lead on most teams, they become one dimensional and pass the ball with much more regularity, making it easier for the defense to just get after the QB.

Just as conversely, a well rested defense with a lead to protect, seems to have a higher rate of achieving 3 and outs, and gaining takeaways.  Those 3 and outs, along with the takeaways, typically result in good field position for the offense.

Quick question for ya.  Which of the four teams that played in the conference championship games this year would you describe as more of a defensive team, as opposed to being built from an offensive point of view?

[OSUfan]

(03-15-2019, 02:05 PM)lone bengal Wrote: I definitely don’t think the Bengals are bad as people say.  The offense has good skill positions but if you cant win the line of scrimmage it dosen’t matter. I still have no confidence in Hart, Glenn has been hurt the last 3 seasons and looked average at best when playing, Boling is on the decline and the Jury is still out on Price. Do like the Miller signing tho. Factor in this line has to block guys like Oliver, Richardson and Garrett from Cleveland. The big picture thing for me is the QB who is going into his 10th season. Quarterback is the most important position in the league and when you get into big games in the playoffs your facing guys like Brady and Mahomes who are studs and can elevate those around them. Not saying Andy is terrible but he’s above average at best and needs a complete team around him like 2015 for us to maybe have a chance at winning it all.

Is QB the most important position or is this a myth created by many? Sure the position is extremely important but most important? Let me just offer up some examples that would challenge this theory.

What about Trent Dilfer winning the Super Bowl in 2001? Not to mention the Ravens started that season with Tony Banks as the starter and Dilfer as the backup. Not the most fear inspiring tandem of QBs that I could think of. Just think as well that the Ravens played that game against the New York Giants whom had Kerry Collins manning the helm. 

You look at the above scenario and then look at a guy like Dan Marino who does not own a Super Bowl victory.

Think of 1990 when Jeff Hostetler beat Hall of Famer Jim Kelly. 1991 when Mark Rypien beat Hall of Famer Jim Kelly.

The 2002 matchup of Brad Johnson and Rich Gannon. No Jake Delhomme did not win a Super Bowl but he got Carolina there in 2003. Same thing in 2006 when Rex Grossman got the Bears there.

Unfortunately the Tom Bradys, Peyton Mannings, and Ben Roethlisbergers do not come around very often. So maybe having a great O line and supporting cast could be just as important as a single player?

Just my thoughts for what they are worth.

[Beaker]

(03-17-2019, 12:36 AM)samhain Wrote: My belief is that they are planning on one of the stud DTs falling to 11 and then taking him.  Not an awful strategy, really. 

It is not a great strategy if they pass on the #1 prospect LB to take the 3rd or 4th best DT...depending on how you have them ranked. In the first round, especially in the first 11 picks, you should be able to get the #1 ranked player at some position.

[Bengalitis]

(03-17-2019, 09:51 AM)Beaker Wrote: It is not a great strategy if they pass on the #1 prospect LB to take the 3rd or 4th best DT...depending on how you have them ranked. In the first round, especially in the first 11 picks, you should be able to get the #1 ranked player at some position.

Need a LB before anything else.

[Luvnit2]

(03-17-2019, 09:29 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Offense and defense work hand in hand to make each other better.  An offense that can not only hold onto the ball for sustained, time consuming drives that also put points on the board helps a defense to be more effective by keeping them off the field and rested.  Not to mention, if you get a two score lead on most teams, they become one dimensional and pass the ball with much more regularity, making it easier for the defense to just get after the QB.

Just as conversely, a well rested defense with a lead to protect, seems to have a higher rate of achieving 3 and outs, and gaining takeaways.  Those 3 and outs, along with the takeaways, typically result in good field position for the offense.

Quick question for ya.  Which of the four teams that played in the conference championship games this year would you describe as more of a defensive team, as opposed to being built from an offensive point of view?

To answer your question, the Pats spend a lot of money on defense. The Rams spent a lot of money on defense. The rest are offensive minded. Question, how many teams

I agree a ball control offense or dominant offense helps a defense and vice versa so balance is great of offense and defense. The reverse works for the Ravens, they got their huge OL and staunch running game back on the field to wear down defenses.

Question for you, how many team in those championships had the luxury of a HOF QB? Either now or projected based on early results?

[Luvnit2]

(03-17-2019, 09:14 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think our CBs are well above average, especially when asked to do what they are best at which is man coverage.  Dre is a questionable tackler, though he has improved.  One of the biggest issues with the secondary is the lack of pressure from the front four.  Improve the pass rush, and every level of the defense improves.  That is why I am behind the idea of DT first (if one of the top two is there) and LB later.  

The injuries to Lawson and Glasgow hurt our ability to see what we had with our 9 or 10 man DL rotation. I agree, pressure helps the Cb's no doubt. Maybe you are correct, Jackson and Dre are above average.

I also think a fast safety that is a ball hawk helps the Cb's. Bates showed great promise so hope he keeps getting better.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-17-2019, 02:04 AM)samhain Wrote: He's a legit top 10 prospect.  I'm almost expecting him to be gone at 11. Wouldn't be surprised to see us pass on him if he was there, either to take some guy like Greedy Williams.  Ugh.

I'm looking at White at LB or Metcalf at WR where we pick.

Honestly, I don't really like where we're sitting in the draft.

Green, Boyd, Metcalf, Eifert, and Mixon would be insane to stop.

Then bring Ross in for a 4 WR set.

Then, when Green eventually retires, we'd have Boyd and Metcalf.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-17-2019, 12:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The injuries to Lawson and Glasgow hurt our ability to see what we had with our 9 or 10 man DL rotation. I agree, pressure helps the Cb's no doubt. Maybe you are correct, Jackson and Dre are above average.

I also think a fast safety that is a ball hawk helps the Cb's. Bates showed great promise so hope he keeps getting better.

I am a big fan of Bates.  Great instincts, covers a lot of ground in center field and was substantially better than advertised as a tackler.  I am not a fan of Shawn Williams, though.  I know many will quote his stats and his PFF ranking, but he takes a lot of poor angles and is questionable covering TEs.  I wish they could get a kid like Rapp out of Washington to upgrade the SS position.

If Rapp slips to us in the third, I take him...especially if we get another LB in FA and get one of the stud DTs with our first pick and a RT with our second.  

[Luvnit2]

(03-17-2019, 06:30 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am a big fan of Bates.  Great instincts, covers a lot of ground in center field and was substantially better than advertised as a tackler.  I am not a fan of Shawn Williams, though.  I know many will quote his stats and his PFF ranking, but he takes a lot of poor angles and is questionable covering TEs.  I wish they could get a kid like Rapp out of Washington to upgrade the SS position.

If Rapp slips to us in the third, I take him...especially if we get another LB in FA and get one of the stud DTs with our first pick and a RT with our second.  

I think Williams is under the radar, not great but a good string safety. Williams was a 3rd or 4th round pick too, so your guy may be good, but will he take Williams spot in 2019, I say no. Now if we draft a 1st or 2nd round safety, yes probably starts in 2019.

[THE PISTONS]

Well we have Fej too at safety who is productive.

[OSUfan]

(03-17-2019, 06:30 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am a big fan of Bates.  Great instincts, covers a lot of ground in center field and was substantially better than advertised as a tackler.  I am not a fan of Shawn Williams, though.  I know many will quote his stats and his PFF ranking, but he takes a lot of poor angles and is questionable covering TEs.  I wish they could get a kid like Rapp out of Washington to upgrade the SS position.

If Rapp slips to us in the third, I take him...especially if we get another LB in FA and get one of the stud DTs with our first pick and a RT with our second.  

Not so sure that Rapp would be an upgrade over Williams. I actually think Williams is superior to Rapp in coverage.

[samhain]

(03-17-2019, 09:51 AM)Beaker Wrote: It is not a great strategy if they pass on the #1 prospect LB to take the 3rd or 4th best DT...depending on how you have them ranked. In the first round, especially in the first 11 picks, you should be able to get the #1 ranked player at some position.

How experts or fans have players ranked doesn't mean much.  We have no idea how the organization has their board lined up.  If they think the 5th DL is better than the 1st LB or TE, then they'll take the DL.

[samhain]

(03-17-2019, 12:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm looking at White at LB or Metcalf at WR where we pick.

Honestly, I don't really like where we're sitting in the draft.

Green, Boyd, Metcalf, Eifert, and Mixon would be insane to stop.

Then bring Ross in for a 4 WR set.

Then, when Green eventually retires, we'd have Boyd and Metcalf.

Man, I can't get on board with Metcalf.  He wasn't all that productive at Mississippi.  I'd take AJ Brown before I'd take Metcalf.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-17-2019, 06:59 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think Williams is under the radar, not great but a good string safety. Williams was a 3rd or 4th round pick too, so your guy may be good, but will he take Williams spot in 2019, I say no. Now if we draft a 1st or 2nd round safety, yes probably starts in 2019.

I doubt he would take his place without an injury as well, but I want to plan for the future and build quality depth.  Rapp is one of the highest rated SS coming out in the draft.  I just wonder how high a value teams will place on the position

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-17-2019, 08:50 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Not so sure that Rapp would be an upgrade over Williams. I actually think Williams is superior to Rapp in coverage.

This is an interesting article.  I like several of these guys, as well as Thornhill and Rapp. 

https://www.patspulpit.com/2019/3/5/18251302/2019-nfl-combine-10-standouts-new-england-patriots-perspective-draft

[Luvnit2]

(03-17-2019, 10:48 PM)samhain Wrote: Man, I can't get on board with Metcalf.  He wasn't all that productive at Mississippi.  I'd take AJ Brown before I'd take Metcalf.

I would grab the speedster Campbell from OSU before Metcalf.

But definitely Brown over Metcalf

[*ochocincos*]

(03-18-2019, 10:18 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I would grab the speedster Campbell from OSU before Metcalf.

But definitely Brown over Metcalf

I wonder how many see Campbell as a near-clone of John Ross when it comes to skill set but just bigger size and more durability.

[Luvnit2]

(03-18-2019, 10:53 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I wonder how many see Campbell as a near-clone of John Ross when it comes to skill set but just bigger size and more durability.

I am not sure why as you have stated, he is much bigger. I would hope we don't rule out speed guys because of Ross. I would hope our new OC/HC would figure out a way to utilize Ross (he is gong nowhere yet as his dead money hit is 10 million) in our offense.

But, I like Brown over both Metcalf and Campbell in round one if we go receiver. I hope we get White at LB though and go after a WR in round 3 or 4.

[WeezyBengal]

The frustration is is that this team has OBVIOUS holes and the front office refuses to do anything against their standard approach to significantly upgrade it.

The offensive line was/is horrible and they bring back guys like Hart and plug in an average/below average guys like John Miller.

They lose Dennard and bring in B.W. Webb.

They bring back Preston Brown as a linebacker and dont upgrade the other linebacker positions.

Our weaknesses last year were linebacker and offensive line. Everyone knows it and this team will go into the draft and this year with the same weaknesses or pieces from the draft that are completely unknown.

The weaknesses at linebacker and offensive line can single handedly destroy a season not matter how good the rest of your roster is. We saw it last year and this year is shaping up to be no different based on their off season activity.