IF White is gone, who do you pick?

[THE PISTONS]

Say Murray, Haskins, and Lock are gone. White is gone.

Who do you take? These are the guys to choose from:

Devin Bush
TJ Hockenson
Jawaan Taylor
Ed Oliver
Jonah Williams
DK Metcalf
Marquise Brown
Cody Ford

[McC]

(03-25-2019, 01:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Say Murray, Haskins, and Lock are gone. White is gone.

Who do you take? These are the guys to choose from:

Devin Bush
TJ Hockenson
Jawaan Taylor
Ed Oliver
Jonah Williams
DK Metcalf
Marquise Brown
Cody Ford

For me, it would be between Bush and Taylor.  I'd lean toward Bush(let the puns begin) because I'm tired of trying to piece together a LB core from day three picks, projects and UFA's.  Some would consider him somewhat of a reach but, imo, the need factor makes up the difference.

Taylor would be hard to pass on.  And I'd have to take a long, hard look at Oliver because his being there would feel like a gift.

All in all, though, the memory of the gaping hole in the middle of our D leads me back to Devin Bush every time.

[Au165]

Bush, I prefer the tier 2 Tackle market over the tier 2 LB market assuming we consider Wilson the bottom of tier 1.

[*psychdoctor*]

(03-25-2019, 01:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Say Murray, Haskins, and Lock are gone. White is gone.

Who do you take? These are the guys to choose from:

Devin Bush
TJ Hockenson
Jawaan Taylor
Ed Oliver
Jonah Williams
DK Metcalf
Marquise Brown
Cody Ford

I would have to go Oliver or Hockenson.   Oliver and Geno could be scary team.  Hockenson because Eifert has not played 16 games in a season and I think TE will be vital in Taylor's offense.  I would be ok with Ford.  

[*ochocincos*]

(03-25-2019, 01:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Say Murray, Haskins, and Lock are gone. White is gone.

Who do you take? These are the guys to choose from:

Devin Bush
TJ Hockenson
Jawaan Taylor
Ed Oliver
Jonah Williams
DK Metcalf
Marquise Brown
Cody Ford

I wouldn't want Lock even if he were available, but that's beside the point.
I'd go Jonah Williams. Everyone is overthinking him just because he's 3/8" shorter than ideal arms. He'd beat out Bobby Hart (who only has 33.0" arms) for starting RT as a rookie and move to LT after Glenn's contract is up.

[phil413]

I like Oliver but it's Jonah Williams
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jonah-williams?id=32195749-4c13-2676-fb3e-2b3d97cbfc66

Williams would solidify the line, regardless of the LB need you can't pass him up.

[Okeana]

Bush would be a reach at 11, but unless there is a much better prospect on the board u need to take him. There has been a lot of people lately talking Bush down on these boards, but I think it because of perceived value rather than the actual player. anytime you have a guy who was originally listed as a 2nd or 3rd round prospect being talked about in top 15 this happens. This same thing happened with Leighton Vander Esch who was originally considered a 4th round pick and ended up in the first. Bush is not a middle linebacker but he can play SAM or WiLL. We just lost Burfict at Will so it makes all the sense in the world to get this guy to fill that role. BTW keep in mind there is a world were Mack Wilson could be in the 2nd as well so you could end up with two LB's.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-25-2019, 02:38 PM)phil413 Wrote: I like Oliver but it's Jonah Williams
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jonah-williams?id=32195749-4c13-2676-fb3e-2b3d97cbfc66

Williams would solidify the line, regardless of the LB need you can't pass him up.

Depends on how you view Jonah Williams.  I don't see him as an NFL left tackle. 

It seems that Bush is seen as a top 15 type prospect.  I don't view him as a reach at 11.

[J24]

Second most important position in the NFL is 3T I am taking Oliver and not looking back.

[Okeana]

(03-25-2019, 05:20 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Second most important position in the NFL is 3T I am taking Oliver and not looking back.

as a rotational guy with atkins?  

[J24]

(03-25-2019, 05:46 PM)Okeana Wrote: as a rotational guy with atkins?  

1.) Atkins is 31 he is not going to play forever. 
2.) Limiting Atkins playing Time would be smart
3.) It's a passing league so they would be playing a lot together.

[Okeana]

(03-25-2019, 05:56 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: 1.) Atkins is 31 he is not going to play forever. 
2.) Limiting Atkins playing Time would be smart
3.) It's a passing league so they would be playing a lot together.

not saying don't draft a guy, but there are a lot of 3 tech's in round 3 that could be the next atkins.  the needs are to glaring at other positions to use 11 on 3 tech

[J24]

(03-25-2019, 06:02 PM)Okeana Wrote: not saying don't draft a guy, but there are a lot of 3 tech's in round 3 that could be the next atkins.  the needs are to glaring at other positions to use 11 on 3 tech

Stop it! no there are not!  Not saying there are not guys with potential but guys like Oliver are on another level.

[SErebel11]

I personally have trouble seeing Devin Bush as a day 1 pick let alone a #11 overall pick. I get that he had a big combine but he isn't a physical run stopper nor is he really that good in man to man coverage. He gets blocked a lot and stays blocked. In man to man vs TE, he can be outphysicalled at the top of routes due to being undersized. He struggled in man to man against running backs in the OSU game. I think the things he is best at are tracking down plays from the backside, blitzing and playing zone coverage. He also seems to read plays pretty well. If I am taking a linebacker at #11, I want a guy who can do it all and an enforcer in the run game.

Measurables
Player A LB: 5'11" - 234 pounds - 40 yard 4.43 - Bench 21 - Vert 40.5 -Broad 124 -3 cone 6.93
Player B LB: 6' - 224 pounds - 40 yard 4.46 - Bench 20 - Vert 39.5 - Broad 126 - 3 cone 6.94

Players have very similar athletic testing numbers...
Player A is Bush
Player B is Ulysees Gilbert III from Akron a projected 7th round - UFA guy

The reason I point this out is it amazes me how much perceptions of a player changes after the combine meaning you still have to look at the tape to evaluate a player.

[McC]

(03-25-2019, 06:27 PM)SErebel11 Wrote: I personally have trouble seeing Devin Bush as a day 1 pick let alone a #11 overall pick. I get that he had a big combine but he isn't a physical run stopper nor is he really that good in man to man coverage. He gets blocked a lot and stays blocked. In man to man vs TE, he can be outphysicalled at the top of routes due to being undersized. He struggled in man to man against running backs in the OSU game. I think the things he is best at are tracking down plays from the backside, blitzing and playing zone coverage. He also seems to read plays pretty well. If I am taking a linebacker at #11, I want a guy who can do it all and an enforcer in the run game.

Measurables
Player A LB: 5'11" - 234 pounds - 40 yard 4.43 - Bench 21  - Vert 40.5 -Broad 124 -3 cone 6.93
Player B LB: 6' - 224 pounds - 40 yard 4.46 - Bench 20 - Vert 39.5 - Broad 126 - 3 cone 6.94

Players have very similar  athletic testing numbers...
Player A is Bush
Player B is Ulysees Gilbert III from Akron a projected 7th round - UFA guy

The reason I point this out is it amazes me how much perceptions of a player changes after the combine meaning you still have to look at the tape to evaluate a player.

I would say the difference has to be in what lies beyond the measurables, which says that Bush's rank has less to do with combine numbers than play on the field.

If player B is 224 lbs, that screams S and not LB at all.

[SErebel11]

(03-25-2019, 06:53 PM)McC Wrote: I would say the difference has to be in what lies beyond the measurables, which says that Bush's rank has less to do with combine numbers than play on the field.

If player B is 224 lbs, that screams S and not LB at all.

Bush was viewed as a day 2 pick by most before the combine is my point. Now, he is in the conversation at 11?

[McC]

(03-25-2019, 06:58 PM)SErebel11 Wrote: Bush was viewed as a day 2 pick by most before the combine is my point. Now, he is in the conversation at 11?

I'd say it means people liked him but questioned his athleticism.

[Yojimbo]

(03-25-2019, 01:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Say Murray, Haskins, and Lock are gone. White is gone.

Who do you take? These are the guys to choose from:

Devin Bush
TJ Hockenson
Jawaan Taylor
Ed Oliver
Jonah Williams
DK Metcalf
Marquise Brown
Cody Ford

Taylor
Williams
Ford
Bush

In that order.

[Whatever]

(03-25-2019, 01:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Say Murray, Haskins, and Lock are gone. White is gone.

Who do you take? These are the guys to choose from:

Devin Bush
TJ Hockenson
Jawaan Taylor
Ed Oliver
Jonah Williams
DK Metcalf
Marquise Brown
Cody Ford

This probably won't be a popular opinion, but I would probably go Hockenson in that case.

At #11, you have to get a quality player.  Out of all those guys, Hockenson is the safest.  I would also say he is the most likely to be a Pro Bowl/All Pro type player.  Eifert is most likely going to be on a snap count again this year.  Uzi is a solid #2, but he's not a #1.  Frankly, there are injury concerns surrounding a lot of the top offensive weapons, too.  Not only Eifert, but AJ, Ross, and Gio could all be labeled injury prone.

I love Oliver, but there is some bust risk there with his size.  I would still be very happy with him as the pick because I really think that pairing him up with Geno will help the D get off the field on 3rd downs.

Williams and Ford would also be good picks.  I think either could start over Hart.  I think Williams could transition more easily to LT eventually while Ford has the upside to be a dominant Willie Anderson type RT.  

Taylor I don't particularly like, but I can't put my finger on it.  I just get this bust vibe from him, but I can't quantify it.

Devin Bush really isn't worth the #11 pick.  He's closer to Mack Wilson than he is to Devin White and even White is a bit overrated.

Brown and Metcalf really only make sense if you plan on letting AJ walk.  Brown has similar strengths and weaknesses to Ross.  Metcalf is basically a rocked up Mike Wallace.

[SErebel11]

(03-25-2019, 07:00 PM)McC Wrote: I'd say it means people liked him but questioned his athleticism.

That's fine but he is no where close to the 8th best non QB prospect for me which is basically what you are picking at 11 with 3 QB's off the board.  I'd be fine with him in the second or really late in the first where it wasn't such a reach but I pass at 11.