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(04-01-2019, 02:03 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I know you weren't talking to me but 0-7 under Marv in the Playoffs is something you just don't hold onto. Marv had very talented teams to work with, so it was not like Mikey and company was just handing him trash. Taylor has a lot of talent here now and now we will see what an offensive minded coach can do with said talent.
The players were sabotaged by a defensive minded coach and a Line coach that the game had passed by. Not to mention the crappy Linebacker coach we had the last 3 years. As long as Taylor and his handpicked coaches are not sabotaging the players and themselves i think we will be much better than we were under Marv.
I usually don't agree with Fred but he is right, in the end winning changes the culture and the Offense should be better than last year with a better O-line and the Defense WILL be better with a new DC and new LB coach with better players and young players coming into their own.
We will see about the draft and if they get a decent RT and a stud LB....
This team should win more games than last year, bet on it barring being decimated by injuries.
To be clear my point wasn’t really “keep Marvin”, it was more along the lines of “if the coaching staff is the only thing that changes don’t expect much better than what you got with Marvin”.
At this point we don’t even know if the new staff is any better than the old and they will need to be much better to raise us up out of the fringe playoff team zone. I hope I am wrong but I don’t think that hiring a new staff to conduct business as usual is going to get it done.
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(03-31-2019, 05:23 PM)bengaloo Wrote: We have All Pro's.
Bengals haven't actually had an All-Pro (1st or 2nd team) since 2015. The number of 1st team All-Pros is probably a lot less than you might imagine under Marvin:
Geno Atkins: 2012, 2015
Andrew Whitworth: 2015
Adam Jones: 2014 (as a returner)
Chad Johnson: 2005, 2006
Willie Anderson: 2004, 2005, 2006
That's it.
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At least ZT is playing interior designer and the website gave us unprecedented pictures of the construction site.. Nothing is more inspiring than pictures of 2x4s and metal studs and drywall! https://www.bengals.com/news/change-races-through-taylor-made-pbs-renovations
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I doubt he's even a member here.
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(04-02-2019, 11:08 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I doubt he's even a member here.
Who?
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(04-02-2019, 11:21 AM)sandwedge Wrote: Who?
Zac. I'm responding to the title. Also I'm bored.
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(04-02-2019, 09:11 AM)HuDey Wrote: To be clear my point wasn’t really “keep Marvin”, it was more along the lines of “if the coaching staff is the only thing that changes don’t expect much better than what you got with Marvin”.
At this point we don’t even know if the new staff is any better than the old and they will need to be much better to raise us up out of the fringe playoff team zone. I hope I am wrong but I don’t think that hiring a new staff to conduct business as usual is going to get it done.
I don't know if ZT will be any better than ML but I hope we learn from the mistakes of letting ML or any coach who can't win in a normal time span. If ZT can't inspire the team to play in prime time or the playoffs he needs to be shown the door. I believe there is more to look forward to with a new coach. If the honeymoon is over the first year it is better to move on instead of doing the same stupid things year after year.
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We needed a change, but a reminder is change does not guarantee anything other than new guys calling the shots on the field.
Will Taylor be the next Bill Belichick or Jim Mora? Chuck Noll or Hue Jackson?
My guess is somewhere in the middle (I hope at a minimum).
He inherits a ML roster for the most part as no big name players are gone from 2018. He starts with a healthy roster, but as we saw in 2018 that can change in a hurry. Hopefully the rookies and 2nd year players from 2018 get much better in 2019, to me player development is the HC's main job.
Let's hope we make some great drafting decisions and get a lot out of 2 to 3 picks in 2019 due to being better than the guys are competing against, not due to injury.
Time will tell, I hope he is next Bill B. We need a winner.
One more note. The Brown family better be focusing on the Reds and their attendance woes. The Reds made what many considered huge moves, but only after years of doing nothing to win in the minds of the fans. They had 7000 fans last night and expecting only 10,000 tonight. I could see the Bengals get into the less than 40K a game, I hope not but Cincinnati fans refuse to support losers.
2024 may go on record as one of most underperforming teams in Bengal history. Bengal's FO has major work to do on defensive side of the ball. I say tag and trade Tee Higgins in 2025 to start with the rebuild.
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(03-31-2019, 07:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. I think IF we can beat the Steelers twice too. Or start out winning some big primetime games...that goes a long way.
IF we don't do those things, well it becomes much harder. The best time to change it is from the start.
Bad thing is, Merv did that in 2009 and STILL shit the bed against the Jets in the playoffs.....but I hear Andy Dalton got blamed for this loss..... 
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(04-02-2019, 12:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: Bad thing is, Merv did that in 2009 and STILL shit the bed against the Jets in the playoffs.....but I hear Andy Dalton got blamed for this loss.....
I was at that game. Palmer was horrible, every throw was high or off target. Of course AD had yet to be drafted as you know. 
2024 may go on record as one of most underperforming teams in Bengal history. Bengal's FO has major work to do on defensive side of the ball. I say tag and trade Tee Higgins in 2025 to start with the rebuild.
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(04-01-2019, 12:35 AM)XsandOs Wrote: The culture starts with the ownership, especially in a hands on ownership organization like the Bengals.
The GM, coaches and players have to function within that culture.
Now the Team environment, chemistry and morale can be influenced by a coach, but it only happens when it is accompanied with success.
It seems that Taylor is on a short leash and is being micro-managed. I just hope all this works out for the best.
(04-01-2019, 12:02 PM)HuDey Wrote: On the surface it is a huge change, but if the new staff has to work with basically the same roster and under the same Mike Brown restrictions or worse than Marvin worked under, how much is really changing?
It is still early to pass judgement but man it looks like the “same” that’s going on here is greater than the “different”. And to your point, if Taylor isn’t given the freedom to build his vision then we may as well have kept Marvin. And if Taylor’s vision is just picking up where Marvin left off, we hired the wrong guy.
It's hard to gauge with how the Bengals keep everything so close to the vest......but I just don't see it the way you guys do. They have allowed him to assemble the largest coaching staff in team history, and are allowing him to pick his guys....for better or for worse. It seems he's getting a bit of leeway to me.
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(04-02-2019, 12:35 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I was at that game. Palmer was horrible, every throw was high or off target. Of course AD had yet to be drafted as you know.
I was there too.....way too damn cold to be on the losing end!!!  ......and I broke my brother in law's finger on the lone high five of the game. 
(yeah, I was just poking at another post that blamed all of Marvin's failures on 14  )
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(04-02-2019, 12:36 PM)Wyche Wrote: It's hard to gauge with how the Bengals keep everything so close to the vest......but I just don't see it the way you guys do. They have allowed him to assemble the largest coaching staff in team history, and are allowing him to pick his guys....for better or for worse. It seems he's getting a bit of leeway to me.
To me, if Zac is truly an Innovative Genius then he will DEMAND a Ton of leeway and be willing to walk if he doesn't get it.
Easy for me to say, since he would be walking away from a lot of money but most Geniuses likely don't allow their Genius to be harnessed by someone that tells them things that they know are not Genius ideas.
I agree with you that he is getting a bit of leeway but he may have to fight for much more leeway going forward to reach Genius level success.
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(04-02-2019, 12:42 PM)depthchart Wrote: To me, if Zac is truly an Innovative Genius then he will DEMAND a Ton of leeway and be willing to walk if he doesn't get it.
Easy for me to say, since he would be walking away from a lot of money but most Geniuses likely don't allow their Genius to be harnessed by someone that tells them things that they know are not Genius ideas.
I agree with you that he is getting a bit of leeway but he may have to fight for much more leeway going forward to reach Genius level success.
Interesting points....I agree.
In order to take home the Lombardi, he will need almost absolute power if he is indeed as advertised.
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(04-02-2019, 12:42 PM)depthchart Wrote: To me, if Zac is truly an Innovative Genius then he will DEMAND a Ton of leeway and be willing to walk if he doesn't get it.
Easy for me to say, since he would be walking away from a lot of money but most Geniuses likely don't allow their Genius to be harnessed by someone that tells them things that they know are not Genius ideas.
I agree with you that he is getting a bit of leeway but he may have to fight for much more leeway going forward to reach Genius level success.
I think Zac will walk if he is limited or restrained by the Brown family. He's here to win. He has great references and knows football. In fact, walking is what I would prefer him to do. Sends a loud msg to fans (who already know) that the Browns desire to win comes with limitations and exceptions. Saying you want to win ad doing the things needed to win are two different things the Brown family have failed to put together. Kind of a put up or shut up scenario.
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(04-02-2019, 12:42 PM)depthchart Wrote: To me, if Zac is truly an Innovative Genius then he will DEMAND a Ton of leeway and be willing to walk if he doesn't get it.
Easy for me to say, since he would be walking away from a lot of money but most Geniuses likely don't allow their Genius to be harnessed by someone that tells them things that they know are not Genius ideas.
I agree with you that he is getting a bit of leeway but he may have to fight for much more leeway going forward to reach Genius level success.
What evidence do we have that Zac Taylor is a genius?
He worked for Shawn McVay for 2 seasons so everyone attributes McVay's great traits to Taylor.
Sean Peyton seems to be indirectly ripping the Bengals and some other teams in this article:
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/saints-sean-payton-rips-trend-of-hiring-young-head-coaches/1evfqvnxmxx331trb6ra6znci4
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(04-02-2019, 12:49 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I think Zac will walk if he is limited or restrained by the Brown family. He's here to win. He has great references and knows football. In fact, walking is what I would prefer him to do. Sends a loud msg to fans (who already know) that the Browns desire to win comes with limitations and exceptions. Saying you want to win ad doing the things needed to win are two different things the Brown family have failed to put together. Kind of a put up or shut up scenario.
Numerous players have done this...Palmer, Pickens, Dillon, Spikes, etc. Recently Whitworth.
The fans generally take the Bengals side it seems.
I doubt if Taylor left that fans would be any different.
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(04-02-2019, 12:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What evidence do we have that Zac Taylor is a genius?
He worked for Shawn McVay for 2 seasons so everyone attributes McVay's great traits to Taylor.
Sean Peyton seems to be indirectly ripping the Bengals and some other teams in this article:
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/saints-sean-payton-rips-trend-of-hiring-young-head-coaches/1evfqvnxmxx331trb6ra6znci4
He probably isn't a Genius.
He just got that label via being close to McVay.
I hope he is one though. He better be.
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(04-02-2019, 01:01 PM)depthchart Wrote: He probably isn't a Genius.
He just got that label via being close to McVay.
I hope he is one though. He better be.
Yep.....but it runs deeper than McVay, he has been seen as an up and comer for a while in NFL circles now. IIRC, that's why Sean added him to his staff.
We shall soon see......
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(04-02-2019, 12:49 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I think Zac will walk if he is limited or restrained by the Brown family. He's here to win. He has great references and knows football. In fact, walking is what I would prefer him to do. Sends a loud msg to fans (who already know) that the Browns desire to win comes with limitations and exceptions. Saying you want to win ad doing the things needed to win are two different things the Brown family have failed to put together. Kind of a put up or shut up scenario.
A true Genius would walk if being restrained.
Then that Genius would succeed elsewhere.
Nikola Tesla walked away from Thomas Edison.
Surely Zac could walk away from Mike. (if needed)
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