Starting to Think We Go QB Early

[fredtoast]

(04-16-2019, 06:37 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: My opinion is a lot of people wanted that fifth rounder to start over Dalton and that is what motivated him. Also did you ever hear of a rhetorical question( I'm asking but you already know the answer)? You don't believe pressure from others tends to improve an employee? Complacency creeps in when there is no competition. 

That is BS.  Almost all of the top QBs produce at a high level year after year with little to no competition for their jobs.  There is absolutely no evidence that Dalton is just lazy and won't work without competition.  


Plus McCarron was never a threat to take any playing time from Dalton.  Any fan who thought that was delusional.

I think it is much more likely that the reason Dalton had his best season is that he had a good O-line with the five starters missing a combined TWO games and in the 13 games Dalton played his top six receivers missed a total of ONE game (Eifert game 12).

[Big Boss]

Yeah. Dalton has never given off the impression of not working hard.

[Catmandude123]

(04-16-2019, 07:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is BS.  Almost all of the top QBs produce at a high level year after year with little to no competition for their jobs.  There is absolutely no evidence that Dalton is just lazy and won't work without competition.  

Kenny Anderson became a NFL MVP after they drafted his replacement. Maybe Dalton could benefit from the competition. You did say "almost all". BTW I didn't say one word about lazy. Complacency definition doesn't mention laziness.

[Joelist]

(04-16-2019, 07:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is BS.  Almost all of the top QBs produce at a high level year after year with little to no competition for their jobs.  There is absolutely no evidence that Dalton is just lazy and won't work without competition.  


Plus McCarron was never a threat to take any playing time from Dalton.  Any fan who thought that was delusional.

I think it is much more likely that the reason Dalton had his best season is that he had a good O-line with the five starters missing a combined TWO games and in the 13 games Dalton played his top six receivers missed a total of ONE game (Eifert game 12).

Yep! This was the only season we weren't fighting major injury issues on offense and coincidentally it was Hue's year as OC. 

I just don't see us blowing our first or even second rounder on a QB in an extremely weak QB class. 

[fortyyearfan]

(04-08-2019, 11:08 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I've been reading a lot of draft reports.

Currently, WAS appears to be the favorite to land Rosen. This will probably change 189 times before an actual move is made, and it really doesn't matter unless the team who acquires him is CIN. Point is, if he is dealt, it removes one entry from the list of teams in the market for a QB.

So let's examine who could or should be considering QB in the 1st.

ARI - obviously all in on Murray
NYG - they should have done this 2 years ago but amazingly it's no sure thing they go QB with either 1st rd pick
DEN - This franchise desperately needs a QB and recent news has them zeroing in on Lock
MIA - Possibly the most qb-needy team in the draft
WAS - Discussed briefly above; they would no longer be here if the Rosen deal consummates
Other possibilities: OAK, GB, TB

So let's take WAS off the board for the time being and assume they trade for Rosen.

CIN picks at 11, 1 spot behind DEN, 5 spots behind NYG's 1st and 6 spots ahead of NYG's 2nd.
MIA picks at 13.

If GB/TB/OAK/Wildcard decide to go QB it probably won't be in the first round.

So with Murray off the board at 1 and assuming DEN takes Lock at 10 (which is a hell of an assumption), we're left with Haskins unless NYG takes him at 6, which no one seems to think will happen. Some noise out there that Haskins is slipping and may go 4th out of the 4 projected 1st round QBs (Murray/Lock/Jones/Haskins).

It's not outrageous to think that MIA or NYG (with their 2nd pick) could try to trade up with us to assure themselves of landing Haskins/Lock/possibly even Jones. If they don't trade up with us, they certainly could with someone else.

If one of those teams trades up and all the teams who could be looking QB draft that way, we'd still be looking at one of Jones/Haskins/Lock at 11, depending on which guys the other teams choose. That's worst case, and I don't think Jones is worthy of the 11th pick, but that's not the point of this post.

If more than one team trades ahead of us and a truly remarkable run on QBs occurs, taking all the 1st round-types off the board, we'd have some good options in the 2nd - most notably, my guy Will Grier.

However, if most of the prevailing mocks are correct, neither MIA nor NYG will address QB in the first. In a truly crazy world, DEN could punt with their pick as well, leaving us with 3 options at 11. If DEN takes Lock, we'd still be staring at Haskins and Jones.

I don't think Devin White will be there at 11. Jawaan Taylor is probably the best OL in the draft, and he'll be gone before we pick. Both Iowa TEs are off the board as we re-signed Eifert. If the non-qb route is chosen by the teams ahead of us or if someone trades up for someone other than a QB, players at other positions of need could be scooped up.

So we will likely have legit QB options staring us in the face with both our 1st and 2nd round picks. It's possible that we could have a choice of all 3 (Jones, Lock, Haskins) at 11 and I don't think we let that opportunity pass.

Even if we don't take one of them we'll still likely have Grier or another good QB waiting in the 2nd (Ryan Findley, possibly Jarret Stidham or they fall in love with that oaf from Buffalo).

Lot of mocks are trending this way for us as well.

Hands down,the Giants will draft Ohio state haskins,if we go after a qb it will be 2nd or 3 rd,I believe the 3rd and it will be either will griere or drew lock. I want Andre Dillard at 11 or the best D-lineman and then a linebacker in the 2nd or if Hockeson  the tightend if there,grab him,he is like a top blocker for the line and can catch anything.He is a top talent.

[Catmandude123]

(04-16-2019, 07:43 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: Hands down,the Giants will draft Ohio state haskins,if we go after a qb it will be 2nd or 3 rd,I believe the 3rd and it will be either will griere or drew lock. I want Andre Dillard at 11 or the best D-lineman and then a linebacker in the 2nd or if Hockeson  the tightend if there,grab him,he is like a top blocker for the line and can catch anything.He is a top talent.

Yeah the Giants are dumb. WE wouldn't waste the number 11 pick on him and they will waste the number six pick on him while they have Manning and we have Dalton. Just because they have won four Super Bowls they think they are sooooo smart.

[Benton]

2020 is a good year for QBs. 2019 isnt.

Were in good position to upgrade defense, run with it.

[The Real Deal]

Take this for what it’s worth but this would make one think we are not players for one of the “top tier” guys. Anyone know about where in the draft Finley is slotted to be taken?

Random draft tidbit of the day: Though the #Bengals have done some QB homework, the only passer they’ve brought into their facility is #NCState QB Ryan Finley, who is high up on the list of second tier quarterbacks.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) April 17, 2019

[fredtoast]

(04-17-2019, 04:33 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Take this for what it’s worth but this would make one think we are not players for one of the “top tier” guys. Anyone know about where in the draft Finley is slotted to be taken?

Random draft tidbit of the day: Though the #Bengals have done some QB homework, the only passer they’ve brought into their facility is #NCState QB Ryan Finley, who is high up on the list of second tier quarterbacks.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) April 17, 2019

I would not be surprised at all if we took a QB somewhere in the draft.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-17-2019, 04:33 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Take this for what it’s worth but this would make one think we are not players for one of the “top tier” guys. Anyone know about where in the draft Finley is slotted to be taken?

Random draft tidbit of the day: Though the #Bengals have done some QB homework, the only passer they’ve brought into their facility is #NCState QB Ryan Finley, who is high up on the list of second tier quarterbacks.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) April 17, 2019

From what I gather, he's all over the place.....from 58th, to later rounds.  

[Au165]

(04-17-2019, 04:33 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Take this for what it’s worth but this would make one think we are not players for one of the “top tier” guys. Anyone know about where in the draft Finley is slotted to be taken?

Random draft tidbit of the day: Though the #Bengals have done some QB homework, the only passer they’ve brought into their facility is #NCState QB Ryan Finley, who is high up on the list of second tier quarterbacks.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) April 17, 2019

Yea, to me this solidifies we are probably out on one of the top guys unless it's a 2nd round value play. When we drafted Dalton we did a ton of work on QB's bringing a bunch of the top guys in. There are plenty of guys who get drafted in the 1st round who don't do visits, but QB is not really one of those positions that occurs with. 

As for Finley I think he is a day 3 guy, but it only takes one team to fall in love. I do really like what he offers and is a good back up developmental type of guy. 

[RunKijanaRun]

(04-16-2019, 11:38 PM)Benton Wrote: 2020 is a good year for QBs. 2019 isnt.

Were in good position to upgrade defense, run with it.

I think a lot of people believe 2020 is a good year because Lawrence will be there. He won't, unless rules change. 

Justin Hebert is the top guy right now, but even he is no better than the top guys being advertised in 2019. 

[Captain Happy Pants]

Bosa is going first overall. Bengals trade up to 5 and get Murray.

OR

Murray goes first and Haskins or Lock drop to 11.

WE ARE GETTING A QB in the first

[Socal Bengals fan]

(04-17-2019, 05:01 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I think a lot of people believe 2020 is a good year because Lawrence will be there. He won't, unless rules change. 

Justin Hebert is the top guy right now, but even he is no better than the top guys being advertised in 2019. 

Everyone knows he coming out in 2021. 2020 has a decent crop

[Big Boss]

The fact that they haven't brought in any of the top QB prospects for visits isn't exactly a secret. Hasn't stopped all of these airheads from mocking them to us.

But yeah. QB is arguably the most important position. You'd think if they were serious about taking one, they'd have actually spent time with the top guys.

[Captain Happy Pants]

(04-17-2019, 08:51 PM)Big Boss Wrote: The fact that they haven't brought in any of the top QB prospects for visits isn't exactly a secret. Hasn't stopped all of these airheads from mocking them to us.

But yeah. QB is arguably the most important position. You'd think if they were serious about taking one, they'd have actually spent time with the top guys.

What does “bringing in” a guy really do? Don’t coaches speak to players on pro days? Zac went to Oklahoma. Maybe it wasn’t for Murray, who knows. I think bringing in players only tips your hand. Seems like you could have all your questions answered in the basic interviews and work outs/tape

[Shake n Blake]

(04-17-2019, 08:57 PM)Captain Happy Pants Wrote: What does “bringing in” a guy really do?  Don’t coaches speak to players on pro days?  Zac went to Oklahoma.  Maybe it wasn’t for Murray, who knows.  I think bringing in players only tips your hand.  Seems like you could have all your questions answered in the basic interviews and work outs/tape

Agreed. Maybe we don't take a QB...but looking at visits is kinda pointless. How many players have we drafted that we didn't "visit" with? If we want a QB at 11, the last thing we'd want to do is tip our hand so some team can leapfrog us. As of now, most think we're probably sticking with Andy. So if we really want a QB, let them think that.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-18-2019, 12:02 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Agreed. Maybe we don't take a QB...but looking at visits is kinda pointless. How many players have we drafted that we didn't "visit" with? If we want a QB at 11, the last thing we'd want to do is tip our hand so some team can leapfrog us. As of now, most think we're probably sticking with Andy. So if we really want a QB, let them think that.

I see the variables going towards not picking a QB in 1/2 round this year.  

1.  We have two years with Andy's contract and if this year does not go well we will have a decent pick next year
2.  Overall this QB class is subpar on paper for 1st round QB.. i see a bad group next year
3.  Zac Taylor was part of try to  recruit  Andy out of High School at Texas A and M and saw a lot of him at TCU.. 
4.  I think Mike Brown will say give Andy a chance with a new HC to see where he can lead us.
5.  This team has talent in areas, we have more pressing needs than QB

[KillerGoose]

(04-17-2019, 05:01 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I think a lot of people believe 2020 is a good year because Lawrence will be there. He won't, unless rules change. 

Justin Hebert is the top guy right now, but even he is no better than the top guys being advertised in 2019. 

Justin Herbert is a better prospect than every 2019 QB aside from Kyler Murray. He made difficult passes into tight windows with consistency last season and showed off a solid deep ball. He’s also very mobile with great size (6’6, 230, 4.8-ish 40 yard dash.)

[Shake n Blake]

(04-18-2019, 12:16 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I see the variables going towards not picking a QB in 1/2 round this year.  

1.  We have two years with Andy's contract and if this year does not go well we will have a decent pick next year
2.  Overall this QB class is subpar on paper for 1st round QB.. i see a bad group next year
3.  Zac Taylor was part of try to  recruit  Andy out of High School at Texas A and M and saw a lot of him at TCU.. 
4.  I think Mike Brown will say give Andy a chance with a new HC to see where he can lead us.
5.  This team has talent in areas, we have more pressing needs than QB

All fair points. I can see plenty of reasons either way. On the pro side of taking a QB, it'd generate more fan interest, it's a new regime which often = new QB, and taking a QB now would allow for that new QB to sit and learn behind Andy for a year, after which we could trade Andy.

A QB at 11 would still be a mild surprise. I'd be less surprised about one in round 2 and I'm pretty much expecting a QB somewhere in the top 4 rounds.