Starting to Think We Go QB Early

[Essex Johnson]

(04-18-2019, 02:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: All fair points. I can see plenty of reasons either way. On the pro side of taking a QB, it'd generate more fan interest, it's a new regime which often = new QB, and taking a QB now would allow for that new QB to sit and learn behind Andy for a year, after which we could trade Andy.

A QB at 11 would still be a mild surprise. I'd be less surprised about one in round 2 and I'm pretty much expecting a QB somewhere in the top 4 rounds.

I really don;t buy the  generate interest in fans.. how many times did the Browns do that... how about Tampa Bay now or Arizona last year.. 

Just like a new coach.. you need to win, if a coach feels they have a better chance in winning with the new QB then yes.. if they are making decisions on what fans like.. i doubt they last anyway... as for learning behind Andy you helped support my point, they have Andy for two years, they can draft next year and do that...  and it is a projected better draft then this year.  Don;t you think it is interesting that before all the draft day workouts etc.. it was said probably 4 QB going in top 12... now looking like 1 or 2.. QBs are falling down in the draft because of too many questions.. 

[fredtoast]

(04-18-2019, 02:53 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I really don;t buy the  generate interest in fans.. how many times did the Browns do that... how about Tampa Bay now or Arizona last year.. 

I don't buy it either.  If fans were going to buy more tickets based on change they will buy them for a new coach.  A new QB will not sell any more tickets.

The only think that will sell more tickets is winning.

Some people are just obsessed with replacing Dalton.

[NKURyan]

(04-18-2019, 03:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't buy it either.  If fans were going to buy more tickets based on change they will buy them for a new coach.  A new QB will not sell any more tickets.

The only think that will sell more tickets is winning.

Some people are just obsessed with replacing Dalton.

I could maybe be convinced that drafting Haskins would bring in some OSU fans, but yeah, probably not as many as people think. Certainly not enough to influence their draft strategy.

[motoarch]

I like Andy and have supported him but I would like to see the team give him some serious competition.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-18-2019, 02:53 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I really don;t buy the  generate interest in fans.. how many times did the Browns do that... how about Tampa Bay now or Arizona last year.. 

Just like a new coach.. you need to win, if a coach feels they have a better chance in winning with the new QB then yes.. if they are making decisions on what fans like.. i doubt they last anyway... as for learning behind Andy you helped support my point, they have Andy for two years, they can draft next year and do that...  and it is a projected better draft then this year.  Don;t you think it is interesting that before all the draft day workouts etc.. it was said probably 4 QB going in top 12... now looking like 1 or 2.. QBs are falling down in the draft because of too many questions.. 

I honestly don't know if Browns fans were excited by new QBs or not. If they weren't, I'd wager their track record had something to do with it. 

You weren't excited when we drafted Palmer? In general I think Palmer and Lewis were why people were excited going into 2003...and that was before we started winning.

I watch people throw up new QBs on the boards literally every year and you guys don't think some people would be excited if we finally pulled the trigger? Guess I'll have to just disagree there.

And no, I didn't help your point. Re-read the post. I said that a new QB could learn behind Andy AND we could trade Andy next year.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-18-2019, 03:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't buy it either.  If fans were going to buy more tickets based on change they will buy them for a new coach.  A new QB will not sell any more tickets.

The only think that will sell more tickets is winning.

Some people are just obsessed with replacing Dalton.

In 2003 there was an air of excitement in the city, and it had as much to do with drafting Palmer as hiring Marvin.

I'm not obsessed with replacing Andy. For the thousandth time, I don't want him replaced. At least not this year. Unless Murray falls to 11, and even then I'm not sure. I'm looking forward to seeing what Andy does under Taylor.

Not sure why this is so hard for people to grasp. I'm among the most pro-Andy guys on here. I'm simply giving my take on why the Bengals might go QB. Some people think it's impossible. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

[depthchart]

(04-18-2019, 02:53 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I really don;t buy the  generate interest in fans..

(04-18-2019, 03:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't buy it either.  If fans were going to buy more tickets based on change they will buy them for a new coach.  A new QB will not sell any more tickets.

The only think that will sell more tickets is winning.

Some people are just obsessed with replacing Dalton.

(04-18-2019, 04:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In 2003 there was an air of excitement in the city, and it had as much to do with drafting Palmer as hiring Marvin.

There is local fans buying tickets interest and then there is National Media interest.

Drafting Kyler Murray would likely impact both to some degree but I think the National Media interest in the Bengals would Skyrocket if Kyler Murray was drafted. That could then help local ticket sales some.

The National Media would set up a Kyler Murray versus Baker Mayfield narrative in the AFC North and the Bengals could start to get better scheduling from the NFL for certain matchups they would want focused on Nationally.

Browns/Bengals - Mayfield versus Murray for example could be a Prime time affair in the eyes of the National Media/NFL.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-18-2019, 04:38 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I honestly don't know if Browns fans were excited by new QBs or not. If they weren't, I'd wager their track record had something to do with it. 

You weren't excited when we drafted Palmer? In general I think Palmer and Lewis were why people were excited going into 2003...and that was before we started winning.

I watch people throw up new QBs on the boards literally every year and you guys don't think some people would be excited if we finally pulled the trigger? Guess I'll have to just disagree there.

And no, I didn't help your point. Re-read the post. I said that a new QB could learn behind Andy AND we could trade Andy next year.

You did help my point because I am talking about not drafting a QB this year and wait a year, they can still learn under Andy, you could trade him late in season and you can still trade Andy at end of year... sure you might not get as much value but again the value of QB is better next year in draft so I believe this year we are overvaluing QBs any way.. so could be wash looking at it in that perspective

[fredtoast]

(04-18-2019, 04:38 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You weren't excited when we drafted Palmer? In general I think Palmer and Lewis were why people were excited going into 2003.

(04-18-2019, 04:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In 2003 there was an air of excitement in the city, and it had as much to do with drafting Palmer as hiring Marvin.

This is getting silly.  No one bought a ticket to watch the Bengals in 2003 because of Carson Palmer because Palmer did not play a single snap.  Fans got excited and bought tickets in 2003 because we won more than he had in a decade.  They were excited with JON KITNA starting at QB.

People around here have been saying for years that they would get the excitement back when we got a new coach.  But now that we have a new coach it has become "We have to have a new QB to get excited and sell tickets."

A new QB won't sell any tickets unless he wins, and if Dalton wins he will sell just as many tickets.  

[The Caped Crusader]

(04-08-2019, 12:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think we go QB.

If three QBs are already off the board we better not take number 4.  If 3 QBs are taken in the top 10 then there will be some VERY good tlent left for us at other positions.

This.

So much talent left. Some serious holes left to fill. I'd rather not waste potential on a 'superstar' QB with the unproven talent out there. Yes, Haskins was great, for one season. I don't want to put much into that. I'm all for the flashy picks, but people need to go back, look at Super Bowl teams and what they had that made them so great.

Yes, Brady is a great QB. His last two superbowls? His defense shut down the best offense in football and the other one, Malcolm Butler picked off Wilson (or else Brady would have lost). 

Roethlisberger SBs? Manning's last HORRENDOUS Super Bowl? The Eagles? Top 10 defense. Top 5 offensive line. Trent Dilfer's Ravens? Delhomme under center for the Panthers? 

Dalton is not perfect. Is he great? He can be. Can he be bad? Absolutely. Historically bad? Like the defense last year? No. 

[Shake n Blake]

(04-18-2019, 05:51 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You did help my point because I am talking about not drafting a QB this year and wait a year, they can still learn under Andy, you could trade him late in season and you can still trade Andy at end of year... sure you might not get as much value but again the value of QB is better next year in draft so I believe this year we are overvaluing QBs any way.. so could be wash looking at it in that perspective

Trade him midseason? Lol you'd likely get nothing unless there was a major QB injury for a team in contention.

(04-18-2019, 05:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is getting silly.  No one bought a ticket to watch the Bengals in 2003 because of Carson Palmer because Palmer did not play a single snap.  Fans got excited and bought tickets in 2003 because we won more than he had in a decade.  They were excited with JON KITNA starting at QB.

People around here have been saying for years that they would get the excitement back when we got a new coach.  But now that we have a new coach it has become "We have to have a new QB to get excited and sell tickets."

A new QB won't sell any tickets unless he wins, and if Dalton wins he will sell just as many tickets.  

You're right about one thing. It is getting silly when people are pretending that there was no excitement over Palmer immediately after he was drafted. The guy won the Heisman and was viewed as can't miss. Even Kitna himself was hyping him up, saying he was the Golden Boy etc.

Then again, I'm aware you weren't living around the city, so I guess I'll give you a bit of a pass. Still I think you're kinda pretending to be ignorant here. People were definitely hyped going into 2003 BEFORE we started winning. 

[Shake n Blake]

You essentially have one side saying "anything's possible" and one side saying "nope, never, zero chance". I'll let y'all decide which side is more reasonable.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-18-2019, 08:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You essentially have one side saying "anything's possible" and one side saying "nope, never, zero chance". I'll let y'all decide which side is more reasonable.

actually its called an opinion... not sure what your point is

[*jason*]

(04-18-2019, 05:02 PM)depthchart Wrote: There is local fans buying tickets interest and then there is National Media interest.

Drafting Kyler Murray would likely impact both to some degree but I think the National Media interest in the Bengals would Skyrocket if Kyler Murray was drafted. That could then help local ticket sales some.

The National Media would set up a Kyler Murray versus Baker Mayfield narrative in the AFC North and the Bengals could start to get better scheduling from the NFL for certain matchups they would want focused on Nationally.

Browns/Bengals - Mayfield versus Murray for example could be a Prime time affair in the eyes of the National Media/NFL.

It was so long ago, and really before social media and all that took off, but I don't remember national attention shifting to the Bengals when they drafted Carson. As someone pointed out in this thread, he was viewed as a can't miss prospect. I don't think anyone can honestly say Kyler Murray is a can't miss.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-18-2019, 08:44 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Trade him midseason? Lol you'd likely get nothing unless there was a major QB injury for a team in contention.


You're right about one thing. It is getting silly when people are pretending that there was no excitement over Palmer immediately after he was drafted. The guy won the Heisman and was viewed as can't miss. Even Kitna himself was hoping him up, saying he was the Golden Boy etc.

Then again, I'm aware you weren't living around the city, so I guess I'll give you a bit of a pass. Still I think you're kinda pretending to be ignorant here. People were definitely hyped going into 2003 BEFORE we started winning. 

If it was anyone other than Fred I’d wonder how the hell someone could argue Palmer didn’t generate a TON of hype. That’s just straight up undebatable. I know speaking for myself Palmer and Chad were the reasons I got back into the Bengals.

And acting like you’re being anti-Dalton in any way is equally as ridiculous. Arguing for the sake of arguing as per usual.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-18-2019, 10:09 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: actually its called an opinion... not sure what your point is

Someone suggested I was being silly. 

[BenZoo2]

(04-19-2019, 10:18 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Someone suggested I was being silly. 

If the putty fits....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[depthchart]

(04-18-2019, 10:29 PM)jason Wrote: It was so long ago, and really before social media and all that took off, but I don't remember national attention shifting to the Bengals when they drafted Carson. As someone pointed out in this thread, he was viewed as a can't miss prospect. I don't think anyone can honestly say Kyler Murray is a can't miss.

I would agree if just going by how good the prospect is. Palmer may have even seemed like a more "can't miss" than Murray.

There seems to be a hip, new, cool or circus atmosphere factor that gets attached to certain players over others.

A "pizzazz" factor that generates interest.

Andy Dalton has somewhat run his course in the area of generating National Media interest and would likely have to make a deep Playoff run to get ESPN, NFL Network etc to fawn all over him.

Meanwhile, I expect plenty of fawning over Kyler Murray due to his aura & playing style from the National Media similar to fawning over Baker Mayfield.

This should boost the number, length etc of National Media stories and programming which in turn should influence fan interest in the Bengals Nationally & locally.

Jersey sales, interest by kids & young people in Kyler etc.

If Kyler spends a few years sucking, however, then the glimmer could wear off but I would expect an initial spike in National Media attention, fan interest and ticket sales should Kyler become the face of the Bengals.

Similar to how Baker Mayfield has been received and maybe even more of an impact given Kyler's unusual playing style.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-18-2019, 05:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is getting silly.  No one bought a ticket to watch the Bengals in 2003 because of Carson Palmer because Palmer did not play a single snap.  Fans got excited and bought tickets in 2003 because we won more than he had in a decade.  They were excited with JON KITNA starting at QB.

People around here have been saying for years that they would get the excitement back when we got a new coach.  But now that we have a new coach it has become "We have to have a new QB to get excited and sell tickets."

A new QB won't sell any tickets unless he wins, and if Dalton wins he will sell just as many tickets.  

He didn't have to. That's how hype works. People were excited before the season began, because we hired a hyped HC candidate and drafted the consensus top QB and Heisman winner. Just knowing we had a franchise QB on the bench waiting to take over got people hyped. I can still vividly remember Carson's preseason debut against the Jets. People were stoked to see him for the first time. 

I bought my first Bengals tickets in 2003, when the Bengals were off to a 1-4 start. They weren't "winning", yet the ticket sales were already up by 4.1% over the previous year. Average attendance in the first 3 home games of 2002 was 58,279. Average attendance in the first 3 home games of 2003 was 60,656. 

2002 schedule:

Chargers
Bucs
Steelers

2003 schedule:

Broncos
Steelers
Ravens

[depthchart]

(04-19-2019, 11:02 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He didn't have to. That's how hype works. People were excited before the season began, because we hired a hyped HC candidate and drafted the consensus top QB and Heisman winner.

I bought my first Bengals tickets in 2003, when the Bengals were off to a 1-4 start. They weren't "winning",

Fred has already determined that you could not have bought those tickets due to the buzz around Marvin & Carson and after all, who would know better about what influenced you to go to games back then than Fred. Surely you would NOT know what made you buy those tickets back then but Fred does know that the Bengals bringing in Marvin & getting Palmer could NOT have been a factor.