If Haskins is there at 11...

[Catmandude123]

(04-22-2019, 05:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Haskins is still there at 11 then he is not a top 5 pick and you are just grossly overestimating his value.

The MVP this year in the NFL was taken with the tenth pick in 2017 by a team who had a QB who is the spitting image of AD. If that draft were held again who do you think would be the number one pick. Some picks are going to be a bust some will outperform their draft status. I know what we need in the first round is not a QB but maybe, just maybe being unpredictable might pay off.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-22-2019, 04:35 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The one you purchase the next year that you paid two or three times more for could also be a lemon. If this years lemon then you buy another one hoping it won't be a lemon. The law of averages say sooner or later(see Cleveland) you will get a good one. One things for certain you aren't going anywhere without a car.

It could be a lemon, you’re right. But the intent of waiting is you’ve done research of the upcoming models 1-2 years later and determining whether there will be better models those years than this year. I think there will be better models next year or year after than picking a QB this year because “value.”

Would you really want a “value” Camaro that you have to “soup up” for 1-2 years before it’s where you want it if you could have a Corvette Stingray in a couple years instead, even if it will cost more?


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[*ochocincos*]

Let’s look at QBs drafted in the first round after just a single season in college.

Cam Newton (1st overall, 2011)
Mitch Trubisky (3rd overall, 2017)
Mark Sanchez (5th overall, 2009)

I think Haskins most closely resembles Mark Sanchez. Good arm, accurate, similar size, reputable college program. Both had stretches in college they looked electric but also some bad stretches. Sanchez had more athleticism than Haskins does. We know Sanchez started off somewhat hot (helped lead team to two AFCC games but wasn’t the main reason they got there), but ultimately he floundered after he lost his run game and elite defense. Turns out the doubters were right in their skepticism from his single year of college.

I think Haskins will follow a similar path to Sanchez. He can have success if there’s a good team around him. I don’t think he’s the kind of QB that will be able to put a team on his back...at least not unless he can develop properly in the next 1-2 years.


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[*psychdoctor*]

(04-22-2019, 05:16 PM)Wyche Wrote: Brandt says Jones will be the best of the bunch......I'd be fine with that.

On a side note, Murray got a 20 on the Wonderlic, Jones a 37.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/wonderlic-test-scores-of-2019-nfl-draft-quarterbacks-leaked/ar-BBWbnHl?li=BBnb7Kz

20 is not actually bad for average player but QB takes a bit of processing so 37 is significant.  I remember A. Smith scored quite low the first time taking test.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-22-2019, 10:45 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: 20 is not actually bad for average player but QB takes a bit of processing so 37 is significant.  I remember A. Smith scored quite low the first time taking test.  

LOL, yeah, it was VERY low.....the article mentioned that a score of 25 or more has been the benchmark for successful QBs in the NFL.  A 20 is a bit of a concern.  Maybe those rumors about poor interviews weren't rumors after all.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-22-2019, 06:35 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Ugh.  Please no.  I'm just not seeing it.

When you look at his play and numbers, you have to remember he is playing at Duke.  There's not very much talent at wideout.  Brandt's assertions are based on taking that into consideration, interviews, and his work under Cutcliffe.  His comparison?  Peyton Manning.  Peyton Manning himself has spoken highly of Jones.  While I would not like him in the 1st or 2nd, if he's there in the 3rd, I'd have no issue.  I would only be slightly miffed if they took him in the 2nd.  There is much more to playing that position than a rocket arm.....ask the Chargers or Raiders.  In this particular draft, I'd take him over the "phenoms".....who all scored mediocre to poor on the Wonderlic BTW.

[Benton]

(04-23-2019, 09:38 AM)Wyche Wrote: When you look at his play and numbers, you have to remember he is playing at Duke.  There's not very much talent at wideout.  Brandt's assertions are based on taking that into consideration, interviews, and his work under Cutcliffe.  His comparison?  Peyton Manning.  Peyton Manning himself has spoken highly of Jones.  While I would not like him in the 1st or 2nd, if he's there in the 3rd, I'd have no issue.  I would only be slightly miffed if they took him in the 2nd.  There is much more to playing that position than a rocket arm.....ask the Chargers or Raiders.  In this particular draft, I'd take him over the phenoms.....who all scored mediocre to poor on the Wonderlic BTW.

I understand the hesitation, but I'd be fine taking him in the second as a guy to develop. I don't think he'll be phenomenal, but I think he'll be a capable leader in a couple seasons.that said, I don't think he makes it through the first 40.

[Benton]

(04-23-2019, 09:32 AM)Wyche Wrote: LOL, yeah, it was VERY low.....the article mentioned that a score of 25 or more has been the benchmark for successful QBs in the NFL.  A 20 is a bit of a concern.  Maybe those rumors about poor interviews weren't rumors after all.

I've never heard why 25 is the benchmark, but I think it's got something to do with the time. Even if you just guess, the important thing is to get things done quickly and let the law of averages work out. Quarterbacking is a lot like that sometimes. Whatever you decide,decide it quickly.

I'm assuming the guys with the higher scores tend to think quicker.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-23-2019, 09:46 AM)Benton Wrote: I've never heard why 25 is the benchmark, but I think it's got something to do with the time. Even if you just guess, the important thing is to get things done quickly and let the law of averages work out. Quarterbacking is a lot like that sometimes. Whatever you decide,decide it quickly.

I'm assuming the guys with the higher scores tend to think quicker.

That's what I gather from it Benton....it's the speed at which you process it.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-22-2019, 07:53 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The MVP this year in the NFL was taken with the tenth pick in 2017 by a team who had a QB who is the spitting image of AD. If that draft were held again who do you think would be the number one pick. Some picks are going to be a bust some will outperform their draft status. I know what we need in the first round is not a QB but maybe, just maybe being unpredictable might pay off.

Patrick Mahomes was a better prospect and less risky than Haskins.
Mahomes is near identical in size but is far more athletic and had more than one year of good college production.

If the Bengals passed on Mahomes, it would do them a disservice to take Haskins.

[fredtoast]

(04-22-2019, 07:53 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The MVP this year in the NFL was taken with the tenth pick in 2017

More proof you are wrong about having to have a top 5 pick to get a good QB.

So all this talk about having to spend "three times as much" next year is just BS.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-23-2019, 09:38 AM)Wyche Wrote: When you look at his play and numbers, you have to remember he is playing at Duke.  There's not very much talent at wideout.  Brandt's assertions are based on taking that into consideration, interviews, and his work under Cutcliffe.  His comparison?  Peyton Manning.  Peyton Manning himself has spoken highly of Jones.  While I would not like him in the 1st or 2nd, if he's there in the 3rd, I'd have no issue.  I would only be slightly miffed if they took him in the 2nd.  There is much more to playing that position than a rocket arm.....ask the Chargers or Raiders.  In this particular draft, I'd take him over the "phenoms".....who all scored mediocre to poor on the Wonderlic BTW.

Jone is a highly intelligent player. He's able to use his legs when needed. He never hit 3000 passing yards in a season. A career 59.9% completion percentage. I think, at best, he becomes Andy Dalton or Alex Smith.

[Catmandude123]

(04-23-2019, 11:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: More proof you are wrong about having to have a top 5 pick to get a good QB.

So all this talk about having to spend "three times as much" next year is just BS.

So you are not only a draft guru but Nostradamus too. The only know we are considering is ":if Haskins is there at pick 11". I can't say for sure what will happen but the opportunity to get a top prospect is going to cost more than your own first rounder if you aren't in the top five picks. The Chiefs gave up a first and third in 2017 and a first in 2018 to move from 27 to 10. If you aren't willing to believe top QBs cost a ton of picks then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[Catmandude123]

(04-23-2019, 09:52 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Patrick Mahomes was a better prospect and less risky than Haskins.
Mahomes is near identical in size but is far more athletic and had more than one year of good college production.

If the Bengals passed on Mahomes, it would do them a disservice to take Haskins.

So you believed Dalton was washed up after 2016. If the Bengals knew he was as good as he turned out they probably would have taken him any way. As would the Jags. All my original reply was if he is there he should be considered.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-23-2019, 12:18 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So you are not only a draft guru but Nostradamus too. The only know we are considering is ":if Haskins is there at pick 11". I can't say for sure what will happen but the opportunity to get a top prospect is going to cost more than your own first rounder if you aren't in the top five picks. The Chiefs gave up a third in 2017 and a first in 2018 to move from 27 to 10. If you aren't willing to believe top QBs cost a ton of picks then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

That's not a "ton" of picks IMO. Plus, the Bengals can always acquire picks back to compensate by trading back. 

[fredtoast]

(04-23-2019, 12:18 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: If you aren't willing to believe top QBs cost a ton of picks then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

So you are saying Haskins is not a top QB?

[Hammerstripes]

(04-22-2019, 10:31 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Let’s look at QBs drafted in the first round after just a single season in college.

Cam Newton (1st overall, 2011)
Mitch Trubisky (3rd overall, 2017)
Mark Sanchez (5th overall, 2009)

I think Haskins most closely resembles Mark Sanchez. Good arm, accurate, similar size, reputable college program. Both had stretches in college they looked electric but also some bad stretches. Sanchez had more athleticism than Haskins does. We know Sanchez started off somewhat hot (helped lead team to two AFCC games but wasn’t the main reason they got there), but ultimately he floundered after he lost his run game and elite defense. Turns out the doubters were right in their skepticism from his single year of college.

I think Haskins will follow a similar path to Sanchez. He can have success if there’s a good team around him. I don’t think he’s the kind of QB that will be able to put a team on his back...at least not unless he can develop properly in the next 1-2 years.


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Cam had 2 years as a starter.  He was a junior college and then Auburn.

He also had a season at Florida, but I don't really count that since he didn't play much at all.

[Catmandude123]

(04-23-2019, 12:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's not a "ton" of picks IMO. Plus, the Bengals can always acquire picks back to compensate by trading back. 

Losing a first rounder and a third rounder is a ton more than one of your own first rounders and having the other first and third rounder to help your team. IMO

[Catmandude123]

(04-23-2019, 12:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you are saying Haskins is not a top QB?

I believe he could be a great pick but he also could be the second coming of Akili. But IMO I think he is worth the risk.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-23-2019, 12:35 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Cam had 2 years as a starter.  He was a junior college and then Auburn.

He also had a season at Florida, but I don't really count that since he didn't play much at all.

The junior college experience doesn't really count either. He had one full season of starting in Division 1 football.